BLOG PIECE: Modding as a hobby versus modding as a career, and the position of the Nexus

[RavenCorbie]

I'm not that old, but I'm old enough to have gone through a lot of "Oh no, this new thing is going to ruin everything!" movements. And yes, there are always changes, but they aren't nearly as devastating or dramatic as predicted. I also spend a lot of time in the writing community, which I see as being fairly parallel to the modding community, in that there ARE a lot of hobbyist writers (currently comparable to mod authors), and there are sites for them, just as there is a large group of unpublished writers wanting to become professionals (currently comparable to the people who are using mods to try to break into game development), and a smaller group of actual professional writers (currently comparable to professional game developers) who not only earn "some money" writing, but actually live on their writing. In the writing community, there is also a LARGE group of writers who have made some money on their writing but not nearly enough to live on.

 

Some professional writers allow up-and-coming writers to take their classes for free and offer a lot for free. There are groups of writers (usually a mix of professional and up-and-coming) who offer critiques to each other for free, while this is normally a paid service (editing) in return for critiques on their work. Some professional writers, on the other hand, charge for classes and/or critiques.

 

I suspect that with the addition of paid mods, you will end up with a similar situation. So, I don't foresee this becoming the doomsday of modding. I think it will actually expand things and entice more people to enter the game, just as the new ease of self-publishing is increasing the number of paid hobbyist writers, people who may have, in the past, simply kept their work to themselves.

[fftfan]

In response to post #23604199. #23605849, #23609884 are all replies on the same post.

I definitely agree that we need more people like you! Perhaps I may PM you for help, I've never really understood texturing beyond basic recolors/combine image layers. I can make stuff in Blender but don't really know about UV maps for complex meshes.

[sh0d4n]

I have been modding my games on and off since Half-Life 1 and the main thing I liked about it was that it was a free way to extend the life of my games, particularly when I couldn't afford to just go out and buy new ones. Excluding donations (which are great for those that can afford to donate to their fave modders), the aspect that worries me, is that 'pay to download' mods could become so popular, that modding would no longer be a free way to extend the life of our games, so whats the point? May as well just save the cash id be spending on modding my game and go out and buy a new game instead.

 

The second thing that worries me, is that modding is a trial and error affair. No matter what a mod author says about the stability of their mod, their is no guarantee that it will actually be stable. And from past experience modding Skyrim and many other games, it has always been a trial and error affair. So if Steam throws an upfront mod purchase into that equation, then the trial and error necessary to build a stable modded game goes straight out the window. Sometimes it can take months to figure out that one particular mod that looks solid initiality is actually causing some serious problems, and its not like refunds are going to be an option.

 

Thirdly, I think we would find many more mods being created by people attracted to the money, rather than doing it because they are truly passionate about it. The latter type of folk make by far the best mods because their mind is focused on the art of creation rather than the payday at the end of the work. And those are the guys that I would rather see benefit money wise from the hobby. But, its actually the other type of modders that would be most successful in that type of environment, because their end goal is clear > make money.

 

So personally ill be steering clear of the Curated Workshop because I believe it will sap the enjoyment out of modding our games.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 20, 2015 by sh0d4n

[Harbringe]

I first came to Bethesda games back with Daggerfall and when I looked at the game and what was trying to be accomplished with it thru modding (tho game was buggy as hell) , the over riding thing that struck me was that this modding made the game I was purchasing a value add purchase and thats value add in my hands , the purchaser . If it ends up that in order to truly appreciate what I have bought that I am required to buy xyz mods , then its no longer a value add purchase , its a cost add purchase . It turns upside down the whole rationale for which I bought the game in the first place . Bethesda needs to think very hard about this because what this has the potential to do is to take that value add component out of their customers hands (their bottom line) and place it in a platform called Steam (not their bottom line) . Why would I buy their game in the first place under those circumstances.

 

As for the modding angle you have to ask yourself why has the Nexus become what it is , was it just the fact there were mods here , I dont think so . There are mods on other sites but none became what the Nexus is . Why it works here is because its a cooperative endeavour . Mods are put forth , resources are shared , problems are resolved by the community , change that into monetary gain endeavour and all that falls away . And I've looked at the mods offered on Steam and simply put the Nexus has superior ones and even in cases where there are good ones , many of them came from this platform anyway. Damaging the ability for that to occur is not going to be good for modding and certainly isn't going to be good for the Bethesda franchise.

 

When Steam first came out I told people it was designed as a control mechanism over people's gaming (and yes I understand the whole pirating issue) and now you see where they are going with that control , they are looking for ways to milk you (especially the modders) . If the 75%/25% division doesn't tell you what the real game is and you think this is going to be good for modding , your delusion .

Edited March 20, 2015 by Harbringe

[Xilandro]

"My first dungeon mod! Don't go harsh on me! Only 5 bucks and it's yours!". Thousands of my new dungeons. Who cares.

Sure, some skilled 3D Artists will own the marketplace with new awesome weapons, armours, maybe retextures. But tbh their stuff costs a lot of money if made not for mods. Something around $30 per hour I think. Yet we get all those sweet models for free.

 

Also, if I will ever see a decent heavy scripting mod on marketplace everyone wants, but can't buy - I will make similar one from scratch and release it on the nexus for free. Because modding is free. I will become a nightmare for people who want to sell scripted mods on marketplace.

"I am the night..." xD

 

[fftfan]

A "Cash Shop" for mods is a very unpleasant scenario for me, as I've never been able to get into any Free 2 Play/Micro-transaction based game, MMO or otherwise. They always focus on a subset of the total player base who are willing to pay far more then is reasonable. I admit I am not highly knowledgeable about these games as I always opt-out when I see what I'd describe as unfair. Such as(in an MMO like SWOTOR) paying for the ability to use a mount, paying for more bag space, paying for items that give faster experience points. If I'd see these in a game, that's the point when I go to uninstall. I just generally avoid micro-transactions.

 

I'm totally opposed to Steam Workshop selling mods unless it's like 0.1% or 0.01% of major mods. If in effect it was going to allow anybody on Steam to upload any mod to be put for sale for any price desired, I think we would to see 2 things happen:

1. Other people's mods getting downloaded, renamed, readme edited, uploaded for sale. Effectively a stolen mod getting put up for sale. It's likely that as long as the culprit doesn't use the same name here as on Steam that they'll remain totally anonymous and get away with it.

2. Existing mods being taken down by the author to instead be put for sale.

 

If it were to be a totally open market, even very simple mods could end up for sale for a $1. More complex mods may then have an inflated price. Similar to Free-2-Play Cash shops, maximum earnings would be sought after via the 80/20 rule aka Pareto Principle. "80% of your sales come from 20% of your clients." I'm just concerned about the possibility we may see insane "premium" prices like in Diablo 3 PC during 2012 where Legendary Weapons on the Real Money Auction House could sell for over US$100. Or mods that have different prices for 256, 512, 1024, 2048, 4096 textures.

 

It probably will depend on how hard it is for a mod to be accepted for the store. If it's quite tough and kept to a tightly limited amount, it will be more feasible to have a verification process to prevent stolen mods being put for sale. It's probably best if the people at Valve who check the mods also help decide the price, hopefully to keep it reasonable. It should not be as high as DLC content of the same category by full-scale triple A developers.

 

At this point, would Valve take issue with the Nexus as it would be interfering with the workshop's revenue?

[Deleted1016523User]

Hmm. All points valid here, I think. But given there are free modding sites like Nexus here, there is a... sort of solution to payed mods and free mods. If you want payment for your mod, upload it via Steam. If you don't really want the money, uploading on Nexus, or, on Steam, specify that it does not require payment to be used. Freedom of choice would probably be really nice, able to choose wether you want to sell your mod or not. A sort of compromise.

 

"This mod I will sell - for now, and this one I will let people download freely, without any payment towards me and this mod."

 

Hope Valve does this instead, so people can choose wether their mods will be like buyable DLCs or not. Same with Bethesda as stated - they could be going pay to download in the Skyrim Workshop, but still let the UPLOADER decide wether it is to be payed for or not. Or, let people donate to the mod creator if that is better. Me being paid for my mod - given I only have one to work on at the moment - would be a nice bonus, but I don't demand or openly ask for money, I mod for fun.

 

What do you guys think of my thinking? ... Double words, lol

[Unilythe]

This can go 2 ways: Either we get a lot more great mods because money is involved, or all the good mods will suddenly be behind a paywall. Or both.

The Nexus already has a ton of drama regularly. I'm indeed not sure what would happen when there's money to be made too.

 

Meh. We'll see. I think it's too early to say whether this is a good or bad thing. Could go either way.

[QQuix]

From all the scenarios you guys arose, I see a very likely outcome: games will only load mods encrypted with a proprietary algorithm.

 

Lots of positive and very few negative effects (from the developers and distributors point of view).

 

In this scenario, free-mod sites, like the Nexus, will only survive if developer companies consider them trustworthy and license their encryption algorithm.

[HeavyDude]

Yes, but millionaire football players are whats wrong with football. Theres not as much passion for the game anymore as there was in the era of Maradona and earlier. Overpricing the job they do and exploiting it is whats ruining any sport (F1?).

 

I think money will ruin things, why would you give away something for free if you can now profit from it? But on the other hand, this: "Why are you complaining? Mod authors invest a lot of time and put in a lot of work to give you all of this. For free." This won't work anymore, and people will judge a mod harsher, a LOT harsher, when they have to pay for it.

 

Jus as you said, there's enough drama as it is, with money involved... God help us.