BLOG PIECE: Modding as a hobby versus modding as a career, and the position of the Nexus

[dubhorizon]

I highly doubt this will apply to the current Bethesda games. Seeing that almost everything that could be invented in Skyrim is already available and the game itself is old enough not to be in stores. I doubt it has a lot of new incoming players as well. Maybe on the next game, if there is one. But yeah, I agree with the fact that things will get overly complicated between modders and modding teams if money is involved.

[requested]

In response to post #23836199. #23839154, #23845829, #23853369, #23858174, #23858619, #23868714, #23869794, #23870749, #23874494, #23889664 are all replies on the same post.

I can only speak for myself, but I never said it was wrong OR greedy to charge money for your work. There's nobody stopping you from doing this right now without Valve or Beth or anybody else sanctioning it.

I expressed my (idealistic?) viewpoint, that a project shouldn't be done just for the money. (= satisfying the author's greed)

I don't wanna namecall, but I could point you to dozens and dozens of software projects that are just a hoax, and simplifying the distribution of paid content without anybody checking it will result in problems.
We don't know yet how it will work, but I won't pay for any mod just to see if it does what I expected and if it does so in an intelligent way or not.

You can do with your work what you want. Edited March 30, 2015 by requested

[nathanj]

After being burned a couple of times with STEAM early access titles that have gone nowhere over the last several months a I worry about quality assurance and refunds if the mods do not perform as advertised. If they can solve that then I am more than happy to pay something for mods as modders do put a ton of work into what they do and obviously they make the games significantly better in doing so.

 

What I see happening is mods pumping out some flashy graphics and hyping themselves into oblivion (no pun intended) and releasing a subpar mod that is broken and then not sticking around to fix the issues. As I mentioned this has happened with STEAM early access games which in some respects reflect what would happen. After all many of the games are being developed by small groups of indie game makers who would be called modders except for the fact they are getting paid.

[nathanj]

In response to post #23860899.

I think it would harm "epic" mods. The problem is that over time any game is going to have a dwindling player base as people gradually move on to the next game. If you are a modder and you know you are going to be paid do you focus on mods that you can complete in a shorter period of time when the player base is higher or one a huge mod that takes years to make and by the time you release it the player base will be much smaller. Even if you can charge more for the epic mod the number of people wanting to purchase it would be significantly less than before.

There is also the problem of competition. If a bunch of groups work on large scale mods after a year or couple of years there will be more and more of those mods released further diluting the market. If I was a modder and monetary compensation was an incentive I would focus on mods that could be completed in a couple of months not years.

[Dogzard]

Well, if mods suddenly start having a price tag on them, I strongly suggest people go ahead and subscribe to whatever you can and back that file up somewhere so you have access to it after Steam goes even more greedier than they already are.

And "Epic Mods"? Seriously... Best 'Epic Mod' I've found was simple, free and on Nexus.

 

R.I.P. Taylor.

http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/63583/?

[Terramaris]

I am a major advocate of Free Market Capitalism. I have read the works of Adam Smith, Nicholas Mankiw, and Keynes so with that in mind, it will be strange that I am on the side of "keep modding free". Why do I support this?

 

1. Sturgeons Law: 90% of everything is crap. Combine that with people wanting money and the large modding community, you will have a grand amount of mods for sale that are just shoddy quality. If you throw in abadonware to the mix, the modding community will get a negative reputation. It is one thing for Sturgeons Law to be applied to free things, all you loose is the bandwidth, when it comes to paying for something, especially when you cannot get a refund + a lack of quality control the stakes are far higher. When you throw money in the mix, you need a higher set of standards because the face of the modding community like it or not, will be those selling their goods on the workshop.

 

2. The Elder Scrolls relies on the modding community. Bethesda games are buggier than a bee farm and are about as stable as a Jenga tower on a good day, where would we be without mods like USP or a CTD prevention? Would they still be free if they could make money from it? Economics say since there is a large demand for the product, people will pay for it.

 

3. Lack of competition. There are 148 mods in the New Lands Section, factoring in Sturgeon's law only 14 of the mods are of high quality, that isn't good. To explain what I mean, let me give an example: If I want a mod about going to Elsweyr I am stuck with two mods: Moonpath to Elsweyr and The Deserts of Elsweyr according to my Nexus search of the term "elsweyr", the latter hasn't been updated since 2012 so MTE has a monopoly and thus if anyone wants to go to this province of the empire, MTE can charge whatever they want knowing they have no competition. Continuing on, suppose I want to go to Morrowind: I still only have two options: Skywind or Shadows of Morrowind.

 

Sure there will be competition on the easier to make mods: armour, swords, cheat mods, but with very very few exception (even out of those who are in the 10%), are they worth the $1-3 we would see them on the workshop for?

 

4. There is another way to compensate modders.

Modders have a variety of ways to get money without charging people for their product: Kickstarter, Adfly, list goes on. Why should we create a rift in the community when there are alternatives? Will it net them as much money, no, but money is not the point. Sometimes things must be done for the betterment of the community instead of personal gain: Wikipedia and Google could make millions more than they do now if they charged for their product, but instead they use alternative ways of gaining revenue without costing the user.

 

There are numerous more reasons why charging for mods are bad, but most of the reasons have been said far better than I could articulate (Bootrocket's post for example).

Edited March 30, 2015 by freedom613

[Deleted7440969User]

After reading this article and his thread again, and thinking about the theme as such - the modding community understands itself as a whole thing - a cloud of ideas and concepts - if you want call it so - now my biggest question is. Those ones who are now at commercial trip have to remind themselfes where their roots are, a lot of ideas presented from other modders for free, i dont mean this awfull copy'npaste-thingy - i mean the principes, construction rules, shading findings, tricks and tips, free modding tools and the greatest part ideas offered in free mods, how things could be handled, scripted, graphical builded and / or solved. How could they DRM-ified?

i.e. if i will offer my fabrics as such here for free (without earning any money) on nexus - how could i prevent the usage of those fabrics (non related to a special cloth-set or quest-mod) in commercial mods? AFAIK in no way, nothing prevents from misusage or usage in commercial mods, those modders would earn money with my findings/developments - and no justice is there to cover the work - especially in other culture circles - there it's a rule of creativity to copy the master so long if oneself will be better as the master.

 

I know, i know, i could write permissions that prohibits any commercial usage, or declare them under CreativeCommons, but who cares? Who and where is the world wide acting lawyer taking care about those rules - and how much does this one cost? Please understand me right, these are questions bothering me, and no critic. Also i dont have any conclusion / matched answers to them - but that i could say is "i dont want to be someones (creativity-) slave".

 

LG Ceares.

Edited March 30, 2015 by Guest

[bootrocket]

In response to post #23904944.

Dark0ne might consider copyrighting the contents of this site, and having anyone that uses it click an agreement that none of the uploads may be used, inside or outside the site, without the author's permission. Just a thought. That's what professional artists do and that is most certainly what the DRMs will do.

[Arthmoor]

In response to post #23836199. #23839154, #23845829, #23853369, #23858174, #23858619, #23868714, #23869794, #23870749, #23874494, #23889664, #23897239 are all replies on the same post.

Well, right now, there very much IS someone stopping people from charging money for their mods. Bethesda's legal team. They'll come down on you like a ton of bricks for it.

Also, folks in various parts of this whole thread keep saying you can go run a Kickstarter. No. You can't. Every last one that Beth has found out about has been shut down due to violating the CK EULA.

There's a certain irony in people who say it's greedy to charge money telling people to use Kickstarter in the same breath. Kickstarter usually involves sums of money that are quite large.

In any case, I can't see it as greedy even if someone specifically mods to make money. It's using your talents to benefit yourself. We all do this (if we're lucky) - it's called having a job. Some people get paid to dig ditches, others get paid to sell cars, some get paid to make the games we play, and yes, there are some who make careers out of posting dumb videos to Youtube. I fail to see how someone being able to turn modding into a career is a bad thing.

[Deleted7440969User]

In response to post #23904944. #23907724 is also a reply to the same post.

I understand, but please dont forget how many mods or parts of mods which are well keeped at the nexus are misused out of it, the nexus could stand for his own rules and judges but not for other sites - ok, maybe they drop a bann on those people who have broken the rules in the nexus - but this justice ends beyond the nexus - at least at the borders of those countries (with other law / culture) there those sites, i dont want to name them here, are hosted.

I hate the imagine, that offering some mods to the community in here, will be also a complete loose of the mods on those thiefs outside, at the same time.