BLOG PIECE: Modding as a hobby versus modding as a career, and the position of the Nexus

[Zyrius93]

In response to post #24410754.

paladin181 wrote: Paid mods will ruin modding. Think about it. Right now, if you don't know how to do something, you ask the community and get a myriad of answers, all correct, that reveal methods for doing that thing, or theories on how it could be accomplished. if mods were monetized, would you even ask for help from your peers, knowing that they will then know what you're working on and take the idea for their own? And if you did, who would offer help for you rather than just do the work themselves to get that dime? Or worse, who would offer tainted solutions, solutions that seem to work but have complicated intentionally included bugs?

I'd rather not see the modding community go down that road. Especially if that means that free modding won't be allowed.

Wrong. As Thaiauxn already said, if there's money involved, people will simply keep it to themselves. You'd have to be an idiot to go out there and ask "hey, how do I make this mod of mine I'm trying to sell later?" Much rather you should ask "how do I make a simple dialog with an event upon selecting a particular dialog item?" If you even have to go ahead and ask such a generic question, then clearly you're not putting in the effort anyway to monetize your work - or in other words, your mod likely won't even sell.

People don't suddenly turn evil because they might be able to steal your work and sell it.

The only thing I'm slightly afraid of is that this will go down the Joomla road where every 3rd mod is free for non-commercial use and every 5th is free also for commercial use. Now that community sucks.

[Thaiauxn]

 

In response to post #24410754.

Wrong. As Thaiauxn already said, if there's money involved, people will simply keep it to themselves.

 

Has anybody seen my sarcasm? I seem to have misplaced it.

 

Look: you can spend about 13,000$ buying all this software from Video Copilot, on top of almost 2k$ for After Effects.

http://www.videocopilot.net/

 

Here are literally 500 free tutorials on how to explicitly not buy any of that software and do the exact same thing.

http://www.videocopilot.net/tutorials/

 

http://www.videocopilot.net/tutorials/shockwaves/

Like seriously, I'm not making this up. Andrew teaches you, in HD, how not to buy his software.

 

Okay, more relevant to games.

http://www.autodesk.com/products/3ds-max/buy

 

Look at the price tag on this software; 3500$! Holy s***! 123$/mo! You could be on your way to owning a used car for this!

https://www.google.com/search?q=3dsmx+tutorias&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#q=3ds+max+tutorials&safe=off&tbm=vid

Look at all those tutorials! For free! Some by our very own Nexus modders!

 

http://www.maxplugins.de/

http://www.scriptspot.com/3ds-max/plugins

 

Look at all these plugins for 3dsmax. THOSE ARE MODS. Software modifications. 3rd Party. Made with public tools. RELEASED 95% OF THE TIME FOR FREE.

 

If you don't like that price tag, Gmax, Google Sketchup, and Blender are free. Kirtia is a photoshop clone, for free.

 

Now go look up tutorials for those free software... oh, look, there aren't even 1/10th of them as there are free tutorials for the 3500$ software. How can that be? If that argument is correct, then it should be backward.

 

If you show me an indie game or movie you're working on for-profit, and you need my advice? Email me. I'll respond ASAP.

 

I don't give in to this idea that money ruins everything. If you're a student or hobbyist, and you want a career in games and movies, I want to help you. I want you to earn a living. I want you to be successful. Because I know that successful people tend to breed successful communities. That success need not be wealth, but it means survival, and it means innovation, and both of those take the same currency: hard work and sacrifice.

Edited April 19, 2015 by Thaiauxn

[Sandhorse]

In response to post #23594979. #23595194, #23595354 are all replies on the same post.

SolidusEkans wrote: So, developers want fans to create paid content for them?

chaptermaster21 wrote: It will basically be user generated dlc. More money for the developers and even less work for them to do lol.

KGMeisenbacher wrote: And mods are usually made with inferior quality as well, since they're done by amateurs. One of the main reasons why I'm touchy about quest mods is that the voice acting is either poor or nonexistent, and they're not always lore friendly.

... Edited April 19, 2015 by Sandhorse

[Sandhorse]

I don't think this bodes well for the modding community and maybe even the gaming community in general. I think the questions to ask is, who benefits the most from this change? The modding community which has THRIVED without any cooperate intervention? Or the corporations themselves?

 

Bethesda puts out great games in the ES series. But they are also known to be notoriously buggy. Now it will behoove them to minimize or discontinue altogether any post release QA for their titles they would normally do. Skyrim 'out of box' was a great game, but is comparatively bland when leveled against modded Skyrim.

 

Lets not forget essential mods like USP, UDP, UHFP and UDBP. Now studious can actually make more money if they leave bugs in the game! Hell, they already do so without getting paid.

 

I think it is great that modders are going to have a platform to potentially make a little cash for their hard work. And NO, I don't think modders are greedy for desiring a little compensation. But I fear this will be more of a 'Bright Lights, Big City' scenario, where the only real winners will be the studios.

 

Joe gamer will be bled dry in micro-transactions to get a great game instead of just an OK game. Modders will have to end up prostituting their creativity/hard work for what amounts to a little pocket change. All the while the brass knuckled pimps (a.k.a. Studio X) behind the DRM will be raking in cash hand over fist (at a 75% profit margin) without even so much as having to lift a finger. (zero overhead)

 

I'm not usually a cynical guy, but in my humble opinion; in the vibrant and talented modding community, Studious saw an untapped resource. Through some calculated steps they are finding a way to milk it and all they have to do is dangle a carrot in front of modders. This is just the herding call.

 

In my view this boils down to Studios 'buying out' modders; or, at 25 cents on the dollar, renting them cheap.

 

I'm all for capitalism where hard work by company X makes them profitable. But as far as I am concerned, this is kin to theft of intellectual property.

 

At BEST this is a cash-grab, at worst, dark times ahead for gamers and modders.

 

Both actually.

Edited April 19, 2015 by Sandhorse

[tvilleron]

Dark0ne, once again your post is excellent and I always enjoy them! For me, of the many outstanding points you offer, the point that stands-out and slaps me in the face, is the 75% Valve /25% author ratio; in my mind the ratio should be reversed. I know very little of corporate financial structure but, in this case, thoughts of greed, usury (though usury leans towards lenders but the ratios seem equivalent), and corporate misconduct and exploitation come to mind. It reminds me of the old tales of singers and musicians and their dealings with recording companies and their one-sided contracts.

 

In reading this post I can’t help but wonder “What If and Why Not” NexusMods! NexusMods is an explosion of talent; if only it could be harnessed in a common symbiotic goal and create a game of its own. Imagine a game that is a talented creation that’s potentially bug free (or, if bugged, would be found and resolved quickly). The talent pool could ensure quality assurance. Though the management and financing of such an endeavor might be difficult, if not impossible, but if possible it sure would be impressive.

 

Personal note: I became a Nexus Supporter today. I had intended to become a lifetime member by the end of the 1st quarter of 2015 but have had to push out that date for another quarter or possibly two.

 

Edited April 19, 2015 by tvilleron

[tvilleron]

In response to post #24455004.

Sandhorse wrote: I don't think this bodes well for the modding community and maybe even the gaming community in general. I think the questions to ask is, who benefits the most from this change? The modding community which has THRIVED without any cooperate intervention? Or the corporations themselves?

Bethesda puts out great games in the ES series. But they are also known to be notoriously buggy. Now it will behoove them to minimize or discontinue altogether any post release QA for their titles they would normally do. Skyrim 'out of box' was a great game, but is comparatively bland when leveled against modded Skyrim.

Lets not forget essential mods like USP, UDP, UHFP and UDBP. Now studious can actually make more money if they leave bugs in the game! Hell, they already do so without getting paid.

I think it is great that modders are going to have a platform to potentially make a little cash for their hard work. And NO, I don't think modders are greedy for desiring a little compensation. But I fear this will be more of a 'Bright Lights, Big City' scenario, where the only real winners will be the studios.

Joe gamer will be bled dry in micro-transactions to get a great game instead of just an OK game. Modders will have to end up prostituting their creativity/hard work for what amounts to a little pocket change. All the while the brass knuckled pimps (a.k.a. Studio X) behind the DRM will be raking in cash hand over fist (at a 75% profit margin) without even so much as having to lift a finger. (zero overhead)

I'm not usually a cynical guy, but in my humble opinion; in the vibrant and talented modding community, Studious saw an untapped resource. Through some calculated steps they are finding a way to milk it and all they have to do is dangle a carrot in front of modders. This is just the herding call.

In my view this boils down to Studios 'buying out' modders; or, at 25 cents on the dollar, renting them cheap.

I'm all for capitalism where hard work by company X makes them profitable. But as far as I am concerned, this is kin to theft of intellectual property.

At BEST this is a cash-grab, at worst, dark times ahead for gamers and modders.

Both actually.

Sandhorse, IMO your summarization of Dark0ne's post is spot-on correct and well stated, cheers and beers to you!

[Aedred]

If you want to know how things will turn out, just look at websites like Cheat Happens and MrAntiFun. They charge a fee for game trainers, something that used to be free, done by people for recognition and for the fun of it. You'll be hard pressed to find a decent, free trainer for games now a days compared to years ago.

 

Much the same for mods in the future I imagine, since most people seem to care more about money than anything, you'll be hard pressed to find a good mod for free compared to these days and the days of yesteryears. I absolutely think people should get paid for their work, but I absolutely find it disgusting that people would call modding video games work, largely in the sense of "I'm doing this, because I need money.".

 

One other thing I've noticed, thanks to the internet and digital distribution, is that many big name development companies have gotten LAZY, capitalized for emphasis. The example I'll use here is the upcoming game Star Wars: Battlfront 3. Seriously, go look up the info on what content is getting released compared to the content that got released in the original Battlefront. Knowing EA and DICE's track record, what will follow is a flood of possible DLC that you pay extra money for, extra money to gain the base level content of a game that came out years ago....

 

So what does the above paragraph have to do with modders? The above paragraph implies that games, that allow modding, would enable developers to cut corners (and costs) to release a game half-assed, and incentivize players to complete their game and get paid for doing it... Maybe I'm just behind on the times and modders are totally ok with finishing a developer's work for a game that isn't the modder's sole property, but quite frankly this is just raising the bar for a whole new level of low standards.

Edited April 20, 2015 by Aedred

[BigBodZod]

In response to post #24487659.

Aedred wrote: If you want to know how things will turn out, just look at websites like Cheat Happens and MrAntiFun. They charge a fee for game trainers, something that used to be free, done by people for recognition and for the fun of it. You'll be hard pressed to find a decent, free trainer for games now a days compared to years ago.

Much the same for mods in the future I imagine, since most people seem to care more about money than anything, you'll be hard pressed to find a good mod for free compared to these days and the days of yesteryears. I absolutely think people should get paid for their work, but I absolutely find it disgusting that people would call modding video games work, largely in the sense of "I'm doing this, because I need money.".

One other thing I've noticed, thanks to the internet and digital distribution, is that many big name development companies have gotten LAZY, capitalized for emphasis. The example I'll use here is the upcoming game Star Wars: Battlfront 3. Seriously, go look up the info on what content is getting released compared to the content that got released in the original Battlefront. Knowing EA and DICE's track record, what will follow is a flood of possible DLC that you pay extra money for, extra money to gain the base level content of a game that came out years ago....

So what does the above paragraph have to do with modders? The above paragraph implies that games, that allow modding, would enable developers to cut corners (and costs) to release a game half-assed, and incentivize players to complete their game and get paid for doing it... Maybe I'm just behind on the times and modders are totally ok with finishing a developer's work for a game that isn't the modder's sole property, but quite frankly this is just raising the bar for a whole new level of low standards.

To some degree I will agree with you but the world doesn't always work pro-bono, that being said, everyone that enjoys playing games be it with or without mods and dlc should still be able to play these games.

As consumers it's up to us to decide to play games with or without DLC and/or mods.

I have extra funds I budget out each payday for games, this includes DLC.

So will game devs/pubs continue down the DLC path ? Yes

Will they offer modding in their games moving forward ? Some will as Bethesda has proven over and over again that modding adds to the overall gaming experience and gives that game longevity, I'm still playing Skyrim over and over again with different mod combos.

I don't think you can pidgeon hole devs/pubs as all LAZY and/or GREEDY, but yest there are those that will be this way due to the nature of the corporate beast, beholding to shareholders :(

Using Skyrim as an example I do see a ton of new modders publishing only on the Steam Workshop and for modding this is a good thing in the long run.

Your comments about Cheathappens I think misses the one mark, Cal and Pwiz have a ton of experience now and have added more staff members to help with their site.

They also offer FREE trainers still from others and of course there are sites like Cheat Engine as well.

I have no issues paying for a Lifetime Membership for that site along with my Premium Membership for the Nexus, they are both useful to me.

[marmotte]

I will definitly never paid for mod. Modding is a hobby, not a carrer.

[Kraheera]

What I would like to see is "donation" buttons. In "curated" workshops, why not allow users to donate how much they think the mod is worth? Instead of "selling" the mod, allow the mod authors to create their mods and then allow people to donate?

 

In this way, the mod authors still get to 'compete' for the most endorsements, the most sponsoring, the most page views.

 

Falskaar for instance "deserves" money, because it's amazing. People could donate to the author/s of their favorite mods in the hope that the author would continue to mod for the game they love. Developers could do this as well - create more 'mods/dlc' and continue to develop for a game that still makes them tons of money through donations - donations that would say just how much the gamers still love the content.

 

But like many - the idea of being forced to purchase mods for real money bothers me. Mods are, by definition, user-created additions to a game. The pandora's box is there. What happens when a mod author creates a sub par mod, but gets it to 'look nice' for people to buy. Then those people spend their money, only to find out that the mod is trash? They have 'wasted' their money without any real ability to test it for themselves - to make sure that it works correctly with their game.

 

For instance - i run with a lot of texture mods, and my system handles it just fine. But a friend with a similar system might run into stability problems, even though our systems are nearly the same. No matter what they do, they might not be able to get the same mod order to work correctly.

 

If they had to buy those mods, they've lost their money because their system just couldn't take it, even though 'logically' it should have been possible. This isn't a problem so much with developer driven DLC (though that does happen).

 

This is a pandora's box that makes me very, very leery. And like some have stated - I can very easily see certain companies making it impossible for their games to be modded outside of those curated workshops. I would never buy those games again, and I can only hope those who love mods would do the same.