BLOG PIECE: Modding as a hobby versus modding as a career, and the position of the Nexus

[ilDuderoni]

In response to post #23644599. #23646929 is also a reply to the same post.

I appreciate the response but I fail to see how it relates the piracy part I said.

[Takri]

Thank you, you just made me want to be a supporter of this site ...

[Arthmoor]

In response to post #23607584. #23645249, #23647084 are all replies on the same post.

There already is a separate EULA for the tools. The one you're referring to for the game itself doesn't apply.

The CK EULA merely says that anything you release is something Bethesda can grab if they so choose. It does not cause you to forfeit any rights to the work you do, other than not being able to sell it. Yes, it's a contentious issue, but only because so many people refuse to properly understand the words.

Now, yes, in a situation where mods are sold, something needs to change. There would obviously be a different agreement to cover that. Lawyers being lawyers, I'm sure they can handle that part just fine :P

[Thaiauxn]

For those who think it was just too long, I'll say it again:

 

http://www.scriptspot.com/

http://www.videocopilot.net/

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/

https://wordpress.org/plugins/

http://www.creativebloq.com/photoshop/best-photoshop-plugins-912722

 

These are FOR-PROFIT platforms, many of which cost thousands of dollars to initially purchase, and 95% of all the plugins you see here are free of charge. Plugin, mod, what's the difference?

 

Money will not kill mods, it won't kill the nexus, it won't create unstoppable pay walls, it won't corrupt the process. Look at the evidence in related fields. Maybe we should run an experiment to test this theory.

 

Edited March 21, 2015 by Thaiauxn

[TransparentCat]

In response to post #23644599. #23646929, #23648494 are all replies on the same post.

Hello, I'm in a rush this morning unfortunately and I haven't read too far into the main post of this page, and unfortunately haven't read very far into your post. Time constraints and all.

That being said, I think the assumption that those who endorsed are those who would pay for it is grossly wrong.

I've endorsed many many mods, and I love mods. But if I had to pay for them, I simply wouldn't use them at all. Either that or I'd make my own to fill their roles.

I think that's a reasonable thing to assume, and frankly I would hazard a guess that only 10 percent at highest of those who endorsed would ever pay for any mod in general. Even at that I-believe-to-be-inflated rate, you're only making something like 1,000 dollars if my tired-math is correct. That's certainly a nice pleasant number I'm sure, but it's no 10,000, and frankly I doubt you would make a tenth of that 1,000 dollars, no matter the mod.

(I'm tired so I'm not sure if I've come off as this, so I'd like to directly say here that I'm not insinuating anything about you or your particular mod, and in fact I'm not actually familiar with it to judge. No insult or degredation intended. I'm making assumptions about people's actions towards all mods in general.)

[griefmyst]

In response to post #23644599. #23646929, #23648494, #23650844 are all replies on the same post.

Possibly because you don't have much experience dealing with it, as I have. I am a former musician, and piracy is something I was used to dealing with.

So let me put it plainly:

Modders don't suddenly flip a switch and change. For example, not every modder is putting it up "only for money no ifs ands or buts". I talked to another modder about how we would handle a situation like this if it came to it. His answer was different than mine: "I would do a 30 day paid, then make it free after that. Anyone who wants it early can buy it, or they can wait 30 days to get it for free"

I operated on another notion: "pay what you want". If you can't buy it, you download it.

Piracy happens when there are no easier alternatives. Most piracy doesn't happen because people "want free s#*!", it happens because they don't have easy access to said thing -- paid or otherwise, or the access to pirated material is simply easier to access anywhere else than it is on the current platforms.

Take a look at the music label Monstercat. All current labels operate "there is no money in sales", Monstercat changed that. Going Quantum is a good friend of mine, I even provided the voice drops for his podcast from the start. They pay a fair % (as much as possible) to their artists. They turn a blind eye to piracy, they provide a lot of free material, and in return allow people to easily access their material for a fair price. As a result: they are doing phenomenally well.

The same thing happens with games. I'm not sure how old you are, but I remember the ridiculous restrictions on CD installed games. Sometimes I would spend my money on a game, only to find my key has been stolen and I can't even play it. This happened to me with Diablo 2, for e.g.

In other words: piracy is caused by inconvenience, but it is also a given.

People aren't deterred from creating things "because of piracy".

In fact, as I illustrated above, out of 160K people who downloaded my mod, if it came to paying for it, we'd estimate ~10% would actually pay for it.

So rather than being snarky, try to have a bit of respect for people who are trying to help inform you. Thanks.

[griefmyst]

In response to post #23644599. #23646929, #23648494, #23650844, #23650964 are all replies on the same post.

It's not wrong at all, actually.

The endorsement = a basic estimation of a conversion rate. 5% - 10% conversion rate is actually lowballing it based on the total downloads.

[TransparentCat]

I don't believe Piracy would be an issue here. And if it is an "Issue" it's going to only be an issue from a very.... on-paper perspective.

 

My assumptions is that those who would pirate a paid mod would be those who wouldn't actually buy the mod in the first place. Now there is an issue here that you have reason to be angry about - your mod is being used by those who did not give you anything in exchange - and that's fine, feel whatever there is to feel about that. But to claim there is going to be a monetary hit for something like that is wrong, I think. There are arguments to be made about piracy hurting large scale videogame sales, and that may or may not be true, but I don't think those same arguments apply here well because of the community we're working with. My belief with that, as I've said above, is that those who pirate your mods won't otherwise buy them, so I don't think there's any cause for monetary concern from any party involved, just.. uh.. "moral" ? concerns.

 

 

If any of this was hard to follow, I apologize. I'm very tired and in just a few moments I'll be running out my door to work, so I hope you can understand I'm very distracted at the moment. If anything here doesn't make sense, chalk it up to that.

 

 

 

[TransparentCat]

In response to post #23644599. #23646929, #23648494, #23650844, #23650964, #23651009 are all replies on the same post.

For the sake of convenience I'm going to put your post in my post partially, incase there's any confusion to who I'm responding to.

"Piracy happens when there are no easier alternatives. Most piracy doesn't happen because people "want free s***""


"It's not wrong at all, actually.

The endorsement = a basic estimation of a conversion rate. 5% - 10% conversion rate is actually lowballing it based on the total downloads. "


I'll respond to the endorsement thing first.

What uh. What exactly do you mean, and what's your reasoning for this?

Are you saying that mod endorsements are a good indicator that someone would.. pay? Because I don't think there's any basis to make that argument at all, and more basis against it just from the simple fact that it's easier in every respect to hit endorse and leave the page than to pay for a mod.

Now if you're not saying that, and I'm misunderstanding, I apologize.




This is a response to the piracy thing:

In my experience dealing with people during the age of wide spread internet piracy, through my highschool years up until now, I've never seen any indication that the people I knew who torrented, torrented because they couldn't otherwise access the material. They torrented because they couldn't otherwise purchase it without it hurting their wallet - OR they torrented because they felt that the price the seller charged wasn't in line with the quality of the work being sold. Valve's always said that piracy is from a lack of easy access and they're correct - but only on a global scale. When they say that, I believe they're talking about places like russia, and other countries that simply didn't have easy access to buy these things. They're not talking about the gmaer crowd in a highschool who just didn't want to pay 60 dollars for a bad game, or spend 60 dollars on a game they'd only get an afternoon of fun out of, but still did want to play it, or the yonug-adult group who had a similar mindset to the situation.

As I said before, if anyone torrents one of these mods, it's more likely that he or she either doesn't want to pay period, or feels it isn't worth the money that they would have to pay for it. It's not a matter of them not having easy access.


Aaannnnd now I'm running out the door. I'll check this stuff at work I guess, see if I can't muster up a response if needed. Assuming you don't respond and we never see eachother again - Have a nice day Edited March 21, 2015 by TransparentCat

[griefmyst]

In response to post #23644599. #23646929, #23648494, #23650844, #23650964, #23651009, #23651369 are all replies on the same post.

I never said ANYTHING about "endorsements being a good indicator". I simply used it for the sake of an example, ie: "let's pretend out of 160,000 downloads, up to 10% of people actually buy it". Those are the numbers on my current mod, used purely for example... not "people who endorse = people who would buy".

It was directly in response to OP's comment about "piracy" being an issue.

I replied: piracy isn't a deterrent to creatives, and that we understand full well what a realistic expectation of purchasing is.

I am basing this on years of experience in industries that suffer greatly due to piracy. I have dealt with this very issue first hand.

Everybody here is operating under some very strange misconceptions:

1. That all mods will stop being free forever and ever <-- not true at all, as another user has indicated many examples of how paid and free plugins/mods/etc co-exist perfectly well with each other

2. That modders want to roll around in money <-- also not true, as I illustrated, if I sold my mod for 99 cents, and only 10% of the total downloads purchased it, I'd make only enough to offset my costs and further develop it. This is why I have a day job. But I should no longer be expected to dump money out of my pocket while the site owners happily get to offset their own costs.

3. That mod authors exist purely for their entertainment and should continue to foot the bill as such <-- and it is precisely this mentality that results in me being VERY close to pulling my s#*&#33; and leaving the community, and I can 100% guarantee is pushing many other good authors to that limit.

Look around you.

We're not even allowed to offset our own costs, but we're obligated to put up as "professional level material as possible" and continue to do so. Edited March 21, 2015 by griefmyst