BLOG PIECE: Modding as a hobby versus modding as a career, and the position of the Nexus

[phellen]

In response to post #23836199. #23839154, #23845829, #23853369, #23858174, #23858619, #23868714, #23869794, #23870749, #23874494, #23889664, #23897239, #23907889, #23916764, #23947279, #23954734, #23963714, #23965734, #23966599, #23968049, #23982619, #23991979, #23996044, #23996969, #24003409, #24065404, #24074259, #24098119 are all replies on the same post.

(Expanding upon my previous point)

One easy way to implement advertising would be to in a sense, follow the example of what google has done with youtube. The Nexus could have an option for modders to attach a video Ad that instantly streams upon someone opening the "files" page of a mod. At the end of the video, or after a few seconds, options can appear for for the user to download the mod via NMM or manually. Edited April 14, 2015 by phellen

[phrophet]

Wow i have seen so many amazing modders comment on this I just want to say to arthmoor and iceburg and well like a billion other modders that your work is inspirational! Also I think that modding is the future of gaming since now a days I am more than likely to buy a game if it has a toolkit mostly cause i want to create amazing works like the modders on forums and sites like this one! Edited April 14, 2015 by phrophet

[dasgones]

In response to post #23836199. #23839154, #23845829, #23853369, #23858174, #23858619, #23868714, #23869794, #23870749, #23874494, #23889664, #23897239, #23907889, #23916764, #23947279, #23954734, #23963714, #23965734, #23966599, #23968049, #23982619, #23991979, #23996044, #23996969, #24003409, #24065404, #24074259, #24098119, #24324999 are all replies on the same post.

a big issue I'm seeing here, and i believe the most worrisome, is going to be the limiting of modding in a game to only those selling the the approved marketplace. I would only slightly mind paying for a few mods but would hate to have to pay for all mods. and if the developers start to incorporate the selling of mods (especially at a 75% profit margin) in this direction I fear that is exactly what will happen. Unless the entire modding community united to stop them, there would be nothing to stop developers from monopolizing on the work of volunteers. I'm especially worried about bethesda doing so after seeing their attempt to market TES:O at $60 a month. I respect the hours of effort that goes into modding. I've done a little myself but after realizing how much I suck at it my respect doubled as well as commitment to testing and seeing the wonder created in the modding community. I wouldn't mind buying many of you lunch every now and then for your amazing artwork. But that principle changes drastically when I have to pay someone else for your art. My expectations for something I buy increase with the price. I feel that would be a massive shame towards the community to move from a collective team experiencing something awesome into a community of people fighting over copyrights and royalties from the tablecloth of a developer. As much as I agree you deserve a tangible reward I would despise seeing the developer of the game forcing you to sell yourself. And they will if we let them. it isn't the modder's greed that will destroy the community but the developer's.

[treota]

In response to post #23836199. #23839154, #23845829, #23853369, #23858174, #23858619, #23868714, #23869794, #23870749, #23874494, #23889664, #23897239, #23907889, #23916764, #23947279, #23954734, #23963714, #23965734, #23966599, #23968049, #23982619, #23991979, #23996044, #23996969, #24003409, #24065404, #24074259, #24098119, #24324999, #24346394 are all replies on the same post.

The simple truth:
It is in no way greedy to expect 'reward' (could be money) for your effort.

However, when the product you are creating relies almost entirely on something that another person or entity has made (in this case Skyrim) and that product could be argued to be taking potential opportunities away from the creators of the base software then you can not reasonably ask for money as a reward without being 'greedy'.

A good 50-60% of the reason people would consider your mod is due to the base software that it was created for, not to mention the other 40% could easily be from another IP aswell (such as a star wars/star trek mod etc). So at the most you could claim around 20% of the input value. Not to mention that if you ask for money then your quality standards rocket upwards and you will have to put far more effort into said mod.

(Total conversion type mods are a little different but still follow the same kind of rules)

It would be something like standing next to a hotdog vendor with a bottle of mustard, then asking $2 for a squirt of mustard on peoples hotdogs. Now lets say that the mustard you are offering is of poor quality, then that customer develops a poor opinion of the hotdog vendor even though they did not authorize you to give out mustard and to put extra sting on it you are taking potential profit away from their business.

Modding itself has been under fire from birth, many companies will flat out ban any mod of their game under the reasoning of profit theft, others will intentionally make it next to impossible to mod their game. We as modders should be thankful to more enlightened companies that are willing to embrace the benefits of having a modding community.

Bonus:
Also, ask this question: A team of potentially hundreds made this software and are asking $40-60, how much is your mod really worth? Edited April 15, 2015 by treota

[hecks567]

i don't like the idea of it. the amount i have learnt from others modders script source files is staggering . i make lots of mods for myself, never release them due to no permission on a file or script or because i believe it to be a sub standard mod. but i still make mods because its an outlet to express my creativity. if the mods were monetized would those source files be there to learn from the scripts. probably not. it still wouldn't stop me from making mods though. id still rip and steal assets from any pay mods and use them in my own personal mods for the end result of expressing my creativity. though paying for mods would severely limit the amount of creativity i would be able to express.

 

i see this as a another limiter on creativity as a whole modern games as a whole are moving backwards in scope not forwards, sure we get prettier graphics but content is being sacrificed. games that historically have certain game modes suddenly stop putting in their historical game modes (soul caliber 5, terrible bare bones content, a story mode for 1 character, no ending sequences for other characters. poor arcade mode or command and conquer 4 a game that slaps the regular C&C fan in the face with a wet fish while said wet fish defecates. examples no base building, no resource management, spamable units and a f*#@ing unit cap, . thats not a C&C game its a f*#@ you from EA.

 

look at skyrim for example great game but wheres the spell making from morrowind, or the consequences of a living world. if i wear certain types of faction armor in morrowind i will get attacked by factions against the faction associated to that armour. in skyrim i can wear the emperors clothes after killing him and no one bats an eyelid.

 

i digress but my point is

 

we are in an era of less is more. we pay more for our games and we get less in return.

and thus the creative process is being limited.

 

 

[Glendinho]

Money leads to greed, greed leads to hate, hate leads to suffering...

 

(I'm totally getting shot for the SW reference -_- )

[Deleted82156User]

In response to post #23836199. #23839154, #23845829, #23853369, #23858174, #23858619, #23868714, #23869794, #23870749, #23874494, #23889664, #23897239, #23907889, #23916764, #23947279, #23954734, #23963714, #23965734, #23966599, #23968049, #23982619, #23991979, #23996044, #23996969, #24003409, #24065404, #24074259, #24098119, #24324999, #24346394, #24358294 are all replies on the same post.

It would be something like standing next to a hotdog vendor with a bottle of mustard, then asking $2 for a squirt of mustard on peoples hotdogs

Following this logic....

- A painter cannot place the value of his/her painting above the value of the canvas/paints/paintbrushes and multitude of other tools artists use.

Lets take that further....that 'cityscape' that artist is painting was designed and created by a multitude of designers, laborers using a multitude of resources built by others. Consequently the artist is building off something that so many others created. Frankly that artist should be paying THEM all to even pick up his paintbrush, never mind thinking to make money from selling his painting!

It doesn't work that way. Just because something is built on something else doesn't devalue the time, effort and unique creativity put into it.

PS...where I come from sauces cost extra. lol Edited April 15, 2015 by Guest

[DrakeTheDragon]

In response to post #23836199. #23839154, #23845829, #23853369, #23858174, #23858619, #23868714, #23869794, #23870749, #23874494, #23889664, #23897239, #23907889, #23916764, #23947279, #23954734, #23963714, #23965734, #23966599, #23968049, #23982619, #23991979, #23996044, #23996969, #24003409, #24065404, #24074259, #24098119, #24324999, #24346394, #24358294, #24364774 are all replies on the same post.

It would be something like standing next to a hotdog vendor with a bottle of mustard, then asking $2 for a squirt of mustard on peoples hotdogs. Now lets say that the mustard you are offering is of poor quality, then that customer develops a poor opinion of the hotdog vendor even though they did not authorize you to give out mustard and to put extra sting on it you are taking potential profit away from their business.

Except, let's not forget, this is about "Bethesda" planning to introduce a paid mods scheme via curated workshops or something on the Steam Workshop. It is the hotdog vendor literally "inviting" you to sell your mustard here!

I'm convinced, if Bethesda were in any way worried about your mods devaluing their products, they'd sure as hell never loosen the restriction that mods cannot be sold ever as it is now. But they're going to, or at least that's what this whole article is about, so they must have good reason to and disagree with the issues you brought up in their place.

Like I said a long, long way down the comments in here already, I personally don't see this coming anytime soon, yet. They're by far not even remotely compared for it, yet, and if they rush it, it will put an end to the attempt before it started.

Not that not being prepared for something and being warned about the fact from multiple sources previously has ever stopped them from rushing right ahead into disaster anyways, but... yeah. It takes a multitude of things to be done first, before they can even think of introducing a curated workshop for any of their existing games.

But that's besides the point. I'm in a "Do what you want, I don't care anymore. Unless you force me to put a price on my work as well, then I'm gone" state of mind about it currently. So that is that. I'll sit back and watch things develop, and I won't get involved into this too much, until I see a development that warrants it.

But calling artists (and yes, mod authors == artists) "greedy" for wishing for a little financial gain for sharing their work with the public, in my eyes, is pretty much stretching it here.

Don't get me wrong. I'm still convinced the introduction of paid modding will put an end to the community as we know it. But those artists have all damn right to wish for a little compensation at any time and do not deserve being called "greedy" over it! This relation does not compute.

[DragonRiderOmaga]

In response to post #24363014.

i agree what you say ppl need to stop being greedy

[BlairInKW]

It's been an interesting discussion here and I can already see the divisive potential this issue brings. I think perhaps some folks here are looking modding for money vs modding as hobby a little too narrowly.

 

The first point I'd like to make is that if modding Bethesdas' games for personal profit becomes a thing... it will be Bethesda making the real money and everyone else getting some table scraps.

 

Secondly, there are more hobbies than street hockey. Yes, street hockey is played largely at personal cost to the players wallets. Other hobbies include knitting or bike building where the products are often sold, even if it's just to cover the costs of more materials. Quilting is a hobby that many women have turned into a very profitable side business but that doesn't mean that the women would stop quilting if it became illegal to sell quilts. All of these hobbies are things folks love to do, and many get paid to do them. When people start showing up at the local burger joint to ask "would you like fries with that?" over and over and claim they'd do it for free given the chance we'd have some serious ethical issues, and those issues would sit squarely on the burger joints.

 

Really, the greed isn't in modders hoping to earn a few extra bucks while doing something they enjoy, it's in the corporations hoping for people to work practically for free while pumping up the corporate profits by enhancing or bug fixing games the corporation has already moved on from.