Valve/Bethesda announce paid modding for Skyrim, more games to follow

[rajti15]

I believe this has the potential to be massively detrimental to the Skyrim Nexus. With modders having the option to earn money for their work, they are bound to be disinclined towards sharing their work free of charge here. This could cause a shift in traffic in Steam's favour on one hand, and a decline in the number of (paying) mod users on the other. This could very well be the end of Skyrim modding.

[jesuisnate]

In response to post #24585079. #24585344, #24585519, #24586104 are all replies on the same post.

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gelf2 wrote:

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marthgun wrote: that wasn't a problem with the "games industry" that is an ongoing problem with corrupt media trying to cover up their own misdeeds by labeling a group of people uncovering their deeds as misogynistic. That narrative was started by Anita Sarkeesian and Brianna Wu, neither of which had anything to do with games journalism or GamerGate.

and both have seen record profits, so its pretty obvious that claiming to be harrassed is actually great for business.

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KChan wrote: I think the issue isn't the fact they're expecting money, I think the issue is the way they're going about doing it. Many people, including myself, are more than happy to donate to mod authors should they simply ask.

The reason why they're not yelling at Valve or Bethesda is simple; they don't care. Yelling at them won't do anything, if a bunch of mod authors throw up paid mods and people buy them. In the end, Valve and Bethesda will rake in cash and won't care what anyone says.

The authors are being attacked because their contribution to the paid content system is what will define this system as good or bad. If mod authors looked at this and refused to be a part of a flawed system that will likely cause incredible exclusivity in the modding community, or a straight dissolving of the mod community, then Valve and Bethesda would receive little to nothing in return.

The only way to truly nip this in the bud is to make sure the entire community is on the same level. The exclusivity that's created by this will keep new authors from sprouting up, and will standardize a system of "trade secrets" among authors competing to profit with their individual products.

People complain all the time about companies out to just make a profit, without any consumer-related mindset. If this system is found to be an effective means of profit, and authors cease making their mods free, we'll end up with modding companies. Companies which might turn out acceptable products, but at the cost of our community.

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gelf2 wrote: What you say is true and I did not say the problem was with the games industry, but the industry has been hurt by the allegations.

Professional victimhood, is what it is. These supposed cultic, patriarchal themes are myths - Gamergate, Sarkeesian, college rape culture, and all relevant [subjects] are artificial, constructed by liars and [furthered] by idiots. Subject-object dichotomy? Wage disparities? Manspreading? Modern "feminism" is really pulling bull these days.

But this is irrelevant to the subject matter. Surely content creators should be allowed the ability to recieve rewards for their works, but as they support this business model, paid, disingenuous content and distributor control trend upward, and monetized modding will cement itself.

Why not support donation, the thing Steam is so effortfully censoring in the Workshop? Patreon is an effective means to support artists. If the product is good, money follows.

[spikyhair]

Here's a wild idea for a community project - create a mod that adds Gaben, the Daedric Prince of Greed, to Skyrim.

 

His realm should obviously consist of lots of leaky Dwemer piping.

 

Also, taking bets how long until the first Cease and Desist letters are sent out to "unauthorised" modders now that copyright holders have very tangible reason to enforce the part of copyright that prohibits any modification of their products whatsoever.

 

Steam/Valve just killed modding as it was known.

[IgnacyOrder]

In response to post #24586349.

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spikyhair wrote:

That mod was already made hours after the whole thing. got like 600 subs right now

[Aahzmandias]

In response to post #24581894. #24582039, #24582049, #24582084, #24582119, #24584879, #24585404, #24585789, #24586149 are all replies on the same post.

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NamelessTed wrote:

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akkalat85 wrote: Valve is promoting the view that large content mods should be sold for a price. Whereas before we would release content because we loved to share, now we must decide whether to be taken advantage of, or sell. No they aren't preventing us from releasing mods for free, but they certainly are promoting the opposite idea for the express purpose of lining their own filthy pockets with 75% of your creation's return.

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phantompally76 wrote: And who are you to say that if a mod author has been hyping the newest updates for their existing mods for weeks and weeks without telling their endorsers/subscribers that they must pay to download them isn't a HUGE slap in the face to said endorsers/subscribers who have been eagerly awaiting said content?

THAT is why everybody is freaking out over this.

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GenBloodhorn wrote: its the reason that the large mods we love will go to the workshop and sell it instead of sharing it free with the community.

The fact that yes, there are good alternative mods, but they cant be as good as those mods. (no offense to mod authors around). and remember, the first batch of corruption included Chesko and Isoku, wonder how many more authors could get corrupted. btw, Im not really mad at Chesko as long as he makes the mods free (wont really care for early access bs).

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WightMage wrote: And it wasn't just one author, either.

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NamelessTed wrote: You people are using word like "corrupt" is absurd. These people spend a lot of their time on these projects and now they have a reasonable venue to make money off of their hard work if they choose to do so. If you don't find their work valuable then don't pay for it, it is that simple. You don't have the right to the content, and you don't have the right to get it for free.

I have also thought more about the 25% revenue share and don't find it as bad as most people probably think. Realize that in a traditional publishing scenario a developer usually only gets 10-15% of physical retail sales, the rest goes to distribution, retail, license (MS, Sony, Nintendo), marketing, publisher, tax, etc. Getting 25% doesn't sound like much but it is certainly a bigger share than what is already established.

Also, if a mod is actually good and worthy of a few bucks isn't it a great idea that these mod authors could make a living doing this? Instead of only having spare time to work on these mods what if they could do it full time? Imagine if these people didn't have to work a full time job if they didn't have to and they could make more mods or make their current mods even better wouldn't that be better for all of us?

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popcorn71 wrote: Its not the moders that are corrupt, its Valve and Bethesda for the way they are handling this whole thing. This whole thing stinks to high heaven. Its a precedent that has some rather sinister undertone for how modable games will be approached in the future.

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LiveOnTheEdge wrote: While I'd say 25% is probably a little absurd, just off first impressions. But I do have to say that modders are getting free (or if they're charging, minus the cut, technically) storage, bandwidth, and a storefront on the Workshop. So I can definitely understand there being some cut. As to what's fair, I have no idea. I'm not knowledgeable in that area.

And it's true that the Nexus also provides these things for free, and that's because the owners are bringing in enough money keep this place running. (Maybe?)

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Bayz wrote: "I don't understand why everybody is freaking out over this. Is Valve or Bethesda actively preventing mods unless you pay for them? Not yet."

Corrected that for you

It would be more fair, if valve takes on ALL legal issues, that will hit the modders for sure, if they try to charge money.

And even then, I would think 66/33 would be more than enough, and not 25/75. It feels like a huge greedy rip off, living of the work of others.

As paid modders are living of the work of Bethesda. BUT -- would Skyrim been so popular, if not for the work of modders. I think this Bethaesda has to thank the modders, instead of ripping them off.. Edited April 24, 2015 by mkess

[OH72]

I think neither Valve nor the mod authors at issue really understand the legal can of worms they are opening. I doubt that a mod author in the US understands what it means, for example, to sell software into the EU - especially since Valve themselves have shown in the past that even they don't. And they are likely to be in for another rude awakening with their return policy on mods.

 

Folks, if you consider monetarizing your mods, understand one thing: The moment people spend money for your products, they have rights. And you should think long and hard whether you are aware of said rights and whether you are willing to fulfill them. You should also know that a lot of that burden should technically be on Valve's shoulders, as Valve is the party doing the transaction with the end user, but Valve is screwing you over for it.

[phantompally76]

In response to post #24561804. #24586249 is also a reply to the same post.

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Jerethi50 wrote:

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Bayz wrote: I don't codone insults, but why would it be a shame exactly? You have people like isoku charging 4,59€ for a mod that requires SKSE and that uses assets he did not create, yet he monetizes for his own gain...

Why is it you feel we need people like him profiteering on other people's work?

I don't condone that behavior, but I don't blame them, either. Isoku has been hyping up the new versions of those mods for weeks. Not once did he mention that they would only be available upon release on Steam, with a price tag. Now I'm sure folks will retort "He couldn't mention it, he was under a NDA."....well, that's not the point. Respect and integrity works both ways. For all intents and purposes, the versions of Wet and Cold and iNeed we, the modding community, have been endorsing, playtesting and debugging for months and months are now both abandonware, and will no longer be supported. That leaves the modding community two choices; 1). Buy into Valve's Ponzi scheme and become part of the problem that will ultimately dissolve the modding community, or 2). Refuse to upgrade to, endorse or support the author's latest versions.

I've made my choice. And that's all I can do.

[Schmornoff]

Seeing these many people so aggresiv makes me realy sad.

 

In my oppinion this discussion is very Black&White but as we all know there at least 50 shades of gray :D I can promise you this much. Most Mod authers if not all of them enjoy modding and have done this sofar for the pure reason of that and maybe apriciation of their work. And will continue to do so.

 

I for myself have spent houndrets of hours on some of my stuff. I do this because I see modding as the "game" I'm actually playing. Since I reinstalled Skyrim to start modding I have spent 600 hours in the creation kit and 120 in game itself.

 

But nothing the less I can honestly understand that some Modders would love to get some cash for their stuff since some Mods take up more time of a Day then the actual job they have :D and sometimes after 10 hours it isnt that fun anymore ;) My wife for example got realy pissed while I was working on Black Jack cause I stayed up for 2 days basicly without sleeping to finish that s o a b. Seeing money for your Stuff could well possably mean that if you take your "job" on modding serious you can make cash of it. Which is awsome. I dont like my fulltime job and the greatest job ever would be creating Mods for you guys to enjoy ;)

 

I of course understand the outrage by the comunity that dont want to pay an aditional 100 bucks to a Vanilla game just to get Mods to make it worth while playing. But I think making it possible to charge for your mods is a good possability. The 25 / 75 cut is quite rough but its better then nothing and as some people have pointed out more then the usal 10%

 

To conclude my evil wall of letters. This whole thing could turn out to be something great not as many people say something awfull. Or it could very well be something in the middle :D I for myself wouldnt dare to charge for my stuff if I dont know it's done perfect and as good as an actual dlc would be. Also it wouldnt come to my mind bringing out the first few Version of anything charged, just imagine the shitstorm that will brake loose if you charge a Dollar and then something doesnt work as promoted.

But I could befriend myself with the Idea uploading the final Version of a Mod for a Dollar or something (nothing more then 0,50 cents to a Dollar thats insane - except its realy realy big game changing stuff then MAYBE 2 Dollars but i still think everything above a dollar is to much) charging and not the donation button as I've read alot that people wont donate if they can get it for free I'm like that to so cant complain about it :D Maybe if the donations would be a realy simple system it would work better.

 

To finally wrap it up. Dont worry guys and girls Bathesda and Valve dont have the power to bring down the modding comunity ;) I will continue modding if I dont ever see a cent for it and so will 90% of the rest of the modders if not more. The rest is people we dont need anyways ;)

 

[Aahzmandias]

In response to post #24585079. #24585344, #24585519, #24586104, #24586314 are all replies on the same post.

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gelf2 wrote:

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marthgun wrote: that wasn't a problem with the "games industry" that is an ongoing problem with corrupt media trying to cover up their own misdeeds by labeling a group of people uncovering their deeds as misogynistic. That narrative was started by Anita Sarkeesian and Brianna Wu, neither of which had anything to do with games journalism or GamerGate.

and both have seen record profits, so its pretty obvious that claiming to be harrassed is actually great for business.

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KChan wrote: I think the issue isn't the fact they're expecting money, I think the issue is the way they're going about doing it. Many people, including myself, are more than happy to donate to mod authors should they simply ask.

The reason why they're not yelling at Valve or Bethesda is simple; they don't care. Yelling at them won't do anything, if a bunch of mod authors throw up paid mods and people buy them. In the end, Valve and Bethesda will rake in cash and won't care what anyone says.

The authors are being attacked because their contribution to the paid content system is what will define this system as good or bad. If mod authors looked at this and refused to be a part of a flawed system that will likely cause incredible exclusivity in the modding community, or a straight dissolving of the mod community, then Valve and Bethesda would receive little to nothing in return.

The only way to truly nip this in the bud is to make sure the entire community is on the same level. The exclusivity that's created by this will keep new authors from sprouting up, and will standardize a system of "trade secrets" among authors competing to profit with their individual products.

People complain all the time about companies out to just make a profit, without any consumer-related mindset. If this system is found to be an effective means of profit, and authors cease making their mods free, we'll end up with modding companies. Companies which might turn out acceptable products, but at the cost of our community.

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gelf2 wrote: What you say is true and I did not say the problem was with the games industry, but the industry has been hurt by the allegations.

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jesuisnate wrote: Professional victimhood, is what it is. These supposed cultic, patriarchal themes are myths - Gamergate, Sarkeesian, college rape culture, and all relevant [subjects] are artificial, constructed by liars and [furthered] by idiots. Subject-object dichotomy? Wage disparities? Manspreading? Modern "feminism" is really pulling bull these days.

But this is irrelevant to the subject matter. Surely content creators should be allowed the ability to recieve rewards for their works, but as they support this business model, paid, disingenuous content and distributor control trend upward, and monetized modding will cement itself.

Why not support donation, the thing Steam is so effortfully censoring in the Workshop? Patreon is an effective means to support artists. If the product is good, money follows.

They asked for it. Honestly.

Modding was the last creative thing in gaming.

[MDeckman]

Whenever something becomes successful in the community and people flock to it and it's free, a corporation will always try to spin it to make money, then things just go down hill.