Steam Service Providers, and some how needing to clarify the Nexus stance again

[Arendella]

http://shockyy.tumblr.com/post/117337976959/im-not-sure-if-i-should-laugh-at-those-who-buy

 

Blind Raven textures look like they were molded from Playdoh or Bad Clay

 

Seriously wtf is wrong with it its terribad and even though I know its not finished it still looks like crap from the screenshots listed on steam workshop.

 

Please tell me you really expect to pay money for this? its also in Vanilla body don't expect for them to make it in any conversion because they wont.

[diyeath]

In response to post #24688489. #24688904, #24690914, #24691034, #24691269 are all replies on the same post.

Fowldragon wrote:

sunshinenbrick wrote: The compensation will be going to (mostly) the wrong people. What Pay Mods will do is give the wrong incentive for future modders... modders who do not know and are not part of the long history of game devlopment and pushing the boundaries. If it all goes pear shaped it will bite Valvesda in the ass.

Shame is it will also hurt the "ethical" gamers out there. That being said there will always be new games and new platforms.

Fowldragon wrote: How can it go to the wrong people?

I have no clue how compensation works, but I bet it will be "GAMED"..say, a mod is compensated on the basis of FAVES and SUBs...I know of multiple mods that have major support but never amounted to much or even got finished...One I know of had 500+ faves and 1500 subscriptions. It was to become a new world in the spirit of another FALSKAAR..it was on STEAM's hot list and yet it never grew more than .123Mbytes. It was suggested that the whole thing was a scam to see how many people would endorse a project that was NEVER intended to be Started...much less finished.

Even if it worked one time, it won't work again.."Fool me once, shame on you.Fool me twice, shame on me.". OTOH, not everyone's first try is a success. I imagine some of my favorite modders made a right mess of it their first time out.

STEAM recently added BLENDER to its modding tools. It reminded me of a History lesson ... the people who made the MOST MONEY during the 1849 California gold rush...were the people selling tools and supplies.

Lateraliss wrote: Fun fact. Did you know that the Bible isn't referencing the eye of a needle of a sewing needle? There was a gate in Jerusalem called The Eye of the Needle. It was too small for a camel and its baggage to get through, so the people would have to first take all the baggage off the camel and the camel would have to basically crawl through.

It's a good metaphor, as the camel would have to remove all its possessions before passing through the gate.

sunshinenbrick wrote: By "wrong people" I mean if someone free loads off other people's hard work and then goes to make loads of money selling it to unsuspecting people.

Principal and conviction are only luxuries when you surround yourself with an environment that's counter intuitive to those concepts.

[Mablus25]

Dark0ne has a point and I agree with him

[Nostalgiaheart]

Most everyone is talking about a donation button.

 

As a paying member you have that option in the [ preference selection ] when you sign up and I would think it would be true for all.

 

Check your [ preferences ] at your log-in area. At the bottom of the preference page there is an area to turn the donation button [ on or off ] and an area for type of payment.

 

Just a thought, ENJOY :)

[ManleySteele]

To mod or not to mod is a choice everyone makes. To mod for pay or to mod for free is just another choice. I have never uploaded a mod to the Nexus or anywhere else, although I have a few. The reason is simple. I make them compatible with my mod list and have no intention of making them compatible with any other mod list, ever. Maybe that's selfish, but I just don't want the headaches that come from uploading a mod. I haven't actually played Skyrim in more than a year. When the Next Bethesda game comes out, I'll either play it, based on the situation at the time, or not.

 

I've already paid for Skyrim, twice. For those of you who haven't looked, the list of mods you can buy on Steam right now is short, and in my opinion, ugly. Not to say they shouldn't be there. That's not my choice to make. I pass by mod after mod after mod for the games I play in silence, because they don't suit me. That's nothing against the mod authors. But a lot of mods on the Workshop and on the Nexus are things you can make yourself, if you try. On the other hand, there are some mods, that, frankly, I couldn't make in three generations. Some few are actually better than the base game. Envy is a petty emotion, so I make a point of not envying the authors of those mods, tools, etc. If they want a few dollars for me to use that mod, I'll pay.

 

What I won't do is use the horrible Steam game launcher for managing my mods. That dog won't hunt. Frankly, my biggest fear for the future is that these psychos gentlemen at Valve and BSW think they can make me run a game using that awful lash-up as a mod manager. Not Happening. Other than that, I can take or leave paid modding, assuming there is no monthly subscription to play a single player game I already paid for. That's not happening, either.

 

Rather than standing outside yelling at a closed door, I'll just be on my merry way to some other game vender's little shop. Too easy.

[greggorypeccary]

In response to post #24683029. #24683444, #24684209, #24684384, #24684894, #24685094, #24685399, #24685544, #24685969, #24686034 are all replies on the same post.

greggorypeccary wrote:

sunshinenbrick wrote: I hear you on the corporation thing but my gripe is that aren't some of the best games developers from modding communities themselves? So have they just lost all their values and replaced it with cash??

I just find this hard to come to terms with, I mean isn't this community a living breathing example of what we can achieve when we work together for the profit of our games not pockets.

So why are Beth being such a holes about on this??

greggorypeccary wrote: It's called "not seeing the forest for the trees" or "penny wise dollar foolish" or something like that.

sunshinenbrick wrote: Maybe if employees spend enough time making the games they don't actually play them... and mod them. Maybe they just do not understand the community at all!!

Psijonica wrote: sunshinenbrick 6 kudos 97 posts

I hear you on the corporation thing but my gripe is that aren't some of the best games developers from modding communities themselves? So have they just lost all their values and replaced it with cash??

I just find this hard to come to terms with, I mean isn't this community a living breathing example of what we can achieve when we work together for the profit of our games not pockets.

So why are Beth being such a holes about on this??

The reason why is because Bethesda gave the CK to us for free and trusted us with it and what did we do to thank them?,, we started to ask for money. As soon as we, the modding community started to ask for money (in the form of donations or whatever else you weant to call it) then we broke the deal. It wasn't free any more.

We turned it into a business and Bethesda is saying to us, "If you want to sell your mods, fine, but we are then taking control back and we want our cut."

It is their game, their product, their platform. When you bought Skyrim you never owned it. You just bought the privilege of playing it. Some time during the Oblivion craze moddders started to think that they owned their mods and started put "Permission" rules in the read me. Today, Skyrim modders don't even include a read me. That was the beginning of the problem but as soon as the modders started asking for money Bethesda had no choice but to protect themselves.

I don't blame Bethesda... I would do the same. So would you. It is a business and now so is modding because money has been brought in. Bethesda is punishing us for our greed. they need to protect their product, their company, their employees and their employees families. that is why they are doing this.

This was all just a game, for fun... modding was about sharing and playing nice together. it hasn't been like that for a long time now.

greggorypeccary wrote: I don't think they are trying to punish anyone. I think they are trying to make more money and that is all.

sunshinenbrick wrote: @Psijonica

Another very insightful view of the situation. I had not thought about it that way...

Perhaps this is a naive question but did Bethesda contact any of the most legendary modders to tell them this was gonna happen? I mean out of respect for the endless content, ideas and bug fixes they have given them over the years?

If not then... well I am a little lost for words and again feel really quite sad about all this.

Psijonica wrote: @sunshinenbrick

I have to add, and I am not being mean to you when I say this. Really, I have been reading your post for the last couple of days and you have been very polite and I like that and I respect you for it... however...

You and others are a little naive when it comes to business. Business is not about being nice. it is cut throat. Do you understand what I mean by that? Bethesda didn't get to where they are today by being nice. They stepped on many shoes to where they are today.

With that being said, the original CS for Morrowind was based after a CS that was given away for free back in the early days of home computers before there was an internet. Howard was always influenced by a certain game (i forget the name of it offhand) but he never forgot about it and when they made Morrowind he insisted on releasing the CS. back then it was just for making Houses but it turned into something huge... a modding community.

Bethesdas could have stopped it right then but they didn't. They were so cool and trusted us with their property. Trusted us with their tools they created to make their game... and the community respected then and thanked them.

Today there is no respect. We take their tools and mod their game and expect that they should be ok with us selling their property without including them.

I'm sorry but THIS is not fair. The real question sunshinenbrick, that you should be asking yourself and others is; "Why did we do this to them?"

sunshinenbrick wrote: No disrespect at all but I do actually have a small business. I do conceed the point that I am perhaps naive becasue its not a big one and I don't make a lot of money. And personally I don't want to because I know how worthless money is. I work many days for zip, nada!

I like to imagine in the golden age it might have been like that for Bethesda (and Valve) the pinoeering renagades makeing games in a basement with a cobbled together bit of kit.

But, and I hope it never happens to me, they seem to have lost their moral compass here. I have read your posts over the last few days and I too try to fight the machine but its very tiring and hard. And everyday they chip away.

Suppose there will always be new developers, which is one thing that I feel a little hope over.

markdunck wrote: My only real complaint is how much Bethesda and Steam are making off the backs of the Modders who have done the work. I do not mind shelling out a couple of bucks for a really nicely done mod but not at the percentages that are in place.

My mod has a story that takes hours to play, over 6000 dls and a 10% ratio to endorsements. I never got one donation.

[donta1979]

In response to post #24683029. #24683444, #24684209, #24684384, #24684894, #24685094, #24685399, #24685544, #24685969, #24686034, #24692419, #24693214, #24693254, #24693364, #24693459, #24693549, #24693749 are all replies on the same post.

greggorypeccary wrote:

sunshinenbrick wrote: I hear you on the corporation thing but my gripe is that aren't some of the best games developers from modding communities themselves? So have they just lost all their values and replaced it with cash??

I just find this hard to come to terms with, I mean isn't this community a living breathing example of what we can achieve when we work together for the profit of our games not pockets.

So why are Beth being such a holes about on this??

greggorypeccary wrote: It's called "not seeing the forest for the trees" or "penny wise dollar foolish" or something like that.

sunshinenbrick wrote: Maybe if employees spend enough time making the games they don't actually play them... and mod them. Maybe they just do not understand the community at all!!

Psijonica wrote: sunshinenbrick 6 kudos 97 posts

I hear you on the corporation thing but my gripe is that aren't some of the best games developers from modding communities themselves? So have they just lost all their values and replaced it with cash??

I just find this hard to come to terms with, I mean isn't this community a living breathing example of what we can achieve when we work together for the profit of our games not pockets.

So why are Beth being such a holes about on this??

The reason why is because Bethesda gave the CK to us for free and trusted us with it and what did we do to thank them?,, we started to ask for money. As soon as we, the modding community started to ask for money (in the form of donations or whatever else you weant to call it) then we broke the deal. It wasn't free any more.

We turned it into a business and Bethesda is saying to us, "If you want to sell your mods, fine, but we are then taking control back and we want our cut."

It is their game, their product, their platform. When you bought Skyrim you never owned it. You just bought the privilege of playing it. Some time during the Oblivion craze moddders started to think that they owned their mods and started put "Permission" rules in the read me. Today, Skyrim modders don't even include a read me. That was the beginning of the problem but as soon as the modders started asking for money Bethesda had no choice but to protect themselves.

I don't blame Bethesda... I would do the same. So would you. It is a business and now so is modding because money has been brought in. Bethesda is punishing us for our greed. they need to protect their product, their company, their employees and their employees families. that is why they are doing this.

This was all just a game, for fun... modding was about sharing and playing nice together. it hasn't been like that for a long time now.

greggorypeccary wrote: I don't think they are trying to punish anyone. I think they are trying to make more money and that is all.

sunshinenbrick wrote: @Psijonica

Another very insightful view of the situation. I had not thought about it that way...

Perhaps this is a naive question but did Bethesda contact any of the most legendary modders to tell them this was gonna happen? I mean out of respect for the endless content, ideas and bug fixes they have given them over the years?

If not then... well I am a little lost for words and again feel really quite sad about all this.

Psijonica wrote: @sunshinenbrick

I have to add, and I am not being mean to you when I say this. Really, I have been reading your post for the last couple of days and you have been very polite and I like that and I respect you for it... however...

You and others are a little naive when it comes to business. Business is not about being nice. it is cut throat. Do you understand what I mean by that? Bethesda didn't get to where they are today by being nice. They stepped on many shoes to where they are today.

With that being said, the original CS for Morrowind was based after a CS that was given away for free back in the early days of home computers before there was an internet. Howard was always influenced by a certain game (i forget the name of it offhand) but he never forgot about it and when they made Morrowind he insisted on releasing the CS. back then it was just for making Houses but it turned into something huge... a modding community.

Bethesdas could have stopped it right then but they didn't. They were so cool and trusted us with their property. Trusted us with their tools they created to make their game... and the community respected then and thanked them.

Today there is no respect. We take their tools and mod their game and expect that they should be ok with us selling their property without including them.

I'm sorry but THIS is not fair. The real question sunshinenbrick, that you should be asking yourself and others is; "Why did we do this to them?"

sunshinenbrick wrote: No disrespect at all but I do actually have a small business. I do conceed the point that I am perhaps naive becasue its not a big one and I don't make a lot of money. And personally I don't want to because I know how worthless money is. I work many days for zip, nada!

I like to imagine in the golden age it might have been like that for Bethesda (and Valve) the pinoeering renagades makeing games in a basement with a cobbled together bit of kit.

But, and I hope it never happens to me, they seem to have lost their moral compass here. I have read your posts over the last few days and I too try to fight the machine but its very tiring and hard. And everyday they chip away.

Suppose there will always be new developers, which is one thing that I feel a little hope over.

markdunck wrote: My only real complaint is how much Bethesda and Steam are making off the backs of the Modders who have done the work. I do not mind shelling out a couple of bucks for a really nicely done mod but not at the percentages that are in place.

greggorypeccary wrote: My mod has a story that takes hours to play, over 6000 dls and a 10% ratio to endorsements. I never got one donation.

sunshinenbrick wrote: Greggorypeccary

That is a shame to hear and maybe it is because the donation system is not prominent enough, especially it seems on the none Skyrim pages. Am I missing something?

I do know there is an area in the My Files section to allow people to donate. Is there one to see the Donate tab as well??

I suppose it might all be a bit obtuse because as has been said (which I didn't till today realise) that it is a slightly grey area in regard to the EULA.

digitaltrucker wrote: @Psijonica

You make a valid point. That's one of the reasons I think the donation system on this site should be removed entirely. If this site is about free modding then it has no business here. There is now a place where modders can go if they think compensation should be a part of modding.

sunshinenbrick wrote: I think there is a case to say that perhaps we are not donating for individual mods but for modDING, the modder themselves, their work, time and effort.

digitaltrucker wrote: Whatever your cause, you're donating to a modder. The intentions behind it are irrelevant. Whether the modders deserve it or not is irrelevant.

sunshinenbrick wrote: Is it not possible to donate for a piece of advice or the kind words that someone offers?

greggorypeccary wrote: digitaltrucker this site is not about free modding. It is about making money off people with creative compulsions.

What people forget is sites like the nexus also generate 500,000 to 1,000,000 a year on average in profits just in adds. Modders here do not see a dime of that, I do know curse throws them a bone"modders/content creators" for their traffic. I believe Curse made about 1.3 million last year after operating cost in add revenue alone. Modding is big business believe it or not especially today with site adds and high speed internet. If you look up how much the average day on the nexus and how much add revenue is generated its $8,035 USD a day on average. Edited April 26, 2015 by donta1979

[sunshinenbrick]

In response to post #24683029. #24683444, #24684209, #24684384, #24684894, #24685094, #24685399, #24685544, #24685969, #24686034, #24692419, #24693154 are all replies on the same post.

greggorypeccary wrote:

sunshinenbrick wrote: I hear you on the corporation thing but my gripe is that aren't some of the best games developers from modding communities themselves? So have they just lost all their values and replaced it with cash??

I just find this hard to come to terms with, I mean isn't this community a living breathing example of what we can achieve when we work together for the profit of our games not pockets.

So why are Beth being such a holes about on this??

greggorypeccary wrote: It's called "not seeing the forest for the trees" or "penny wise dollar foolish" or something like that.

sunshinenbrick wrote: Maybe if employees spend enough time making the games they don't actually play them... and mod them. Maybe they just do not understand the community at all!!

Psijonica wrote: sunshinenbrick 6 kudos 97 posts

I hear you on the corporation thing but my gripe is that aren't some of the best games developers from modding communities themselves? So have they just lost all their values and replaced it with cash??

I just find this hard to come to terms with, I mean isn't this community a living breathing example of what we can achieve when we work together for the profit of our games not pockets.

So why are Beth being such a holes about on this??

The reason why is because Bethesda gave the CK to us for free and trusted us with it and what did we do to thank them?,, we started to ask for money. As soon as we, the modding community started to ask for money (in the form of donations or whatever else you weant to call it) then we broke the deal. It wasn't free any more.

We turned it into a business and Bethesda is saying to us, "If you want to sell your mods, fine, but we are then taking control back and we want our cut."

It is their game, their product, their platform. When you bought Skyrim you never owned it. You just bought the privilege of playing it. Some time during the Oblivion craze moddders started to think that they owned their mods and started put "Permission" rules in the read me. Today, Skyrim modders don't even include a read me. That was the beginning of the problem but as soon as the modders started asking for money Bethesda had no choice but to protect themselves.

I don't blame Bethesda... I would do the same. So would you. It is a business and now so is modding because money has been brought in. Bethesda is punishing us for our greed. they need to protect their product, their company, their employees and their employees families. that is why they are doing this.

This was all just a game, for fun... modding was about sharing and playing nice together. it hasn't been like that for a long time now.

greggorypeccary wrote: I don't think they are trying to punish anyone. I think they are trying to make more money and that is all.

sunshinenbrick wrote: @Psijonica

Another very insightful view of the situation. I had not thought about it that way...

Perhaps this is a naive question but did Bethesda contact any of the most legendary modders to tell them this was gonna happen? I mean out of respect for the endless content, ideas and bug fixes they have given them over the years?

If not then... well I am a little lost for words and again feel really quite sad about all this.

Psijonica wrote: @sunshinenbrick

I have to add, and I am not being mean to you when I say this. Really, I have been reading your post for the last couple of days and you have been very polite and I like that and I respect you for it... however...

You and others are a little naive when it comes to business. Business is not about being nice. it is cut throat. Do you understand what I mean by that? Bethesda didn't get to where they are today by being nice. They stepped on many shoes to where they are today.

With that being said, the original CS for Morrowind was based after a CS that was given away for free back in the early days of home computers before there was an internet. Howard was always influenced by a certain game (i forget the name of it offhand) but he never forgot about it and when they made Morrowind he insisted on releasing the CS. back then it was just for making Houses but it turned into something huge... a modding community.

Bethesdas could have stopped it right then but they didn't. They were so cool and trusted us with their property. Trusted us with their tools they created to make their game... and the community respected then and thanked them.

Today there is no respect. We take their tools and mod their game and expect that they should be ok with us selling their property without including them.

I'm sorry but THIS is not fair. The real question sunshinenbrick, that you should be asking yourself and others is; "Why did we do this to them?"

sunshinenbrick wrote: No disrespect at all but I do actually have a small business. I do conceed the point that I am perhaps naive becasue its not a big one and I don't make a lot of money. And personally I don't want to because I know how worthless money is. I work many days for zip, nada!

I like to imagine in the golden age it might have been like that for Bethesda (and Valve) the pinoeering renagades makeing games in a basement with a cobbled together bit of kit.

But, and I hope it never happens to me, they seem to have lost their moral compass here. I have read your posts over the last few days and I too try to fight the machine but its very tiring and hard. And everyday they chip away.

Suppose there will always be new developers, which is one thing that I feel a little hope over.

markdunck wrote: My only real complaint is how much Bethesda and Steam are making off the backs of the Modders who have done the work. I do not mind shelling out a couple of bucks for a really nicely done mod but not at the percentages that are in place.

greggorypeccary wrote: My mod has a story that takes hours to play, over 6000 dls and a 10% ratio to endorsements. I never got one donation.

donta1979 wrote: What people forget is sites like the nexus also generate 500,000 to 1,000,000,000 a year on average in profits just in adds. Modders here do not see a dime of that, I do know curse throws them a bone for their traffic. I believe Curse made about 1.3 million last year after operating cost in add revenue alone.

Greggorypeccary

That is a shame to hear and maybe it is because the donation system is not prominent enough, especially it seems on the none Skyrim pages. Am I missing something?

I do know there is an area in the My Files section to allow people to donate. Is there one to see the Donate tab as well??

I suppose it might all be a bit obtuse because as has been said (which I didn't till today realise) that it is a slightly grey area in regard to the EULA.

[nekollx]

 

In response to post #24683029. #24683444, #24684209, #24684384, #24684894, #24685094, #24685399, #24685544, #24685969, #24686034, #24692419 are all replies on the same post.

 

 

 

greggorypeccary wrote:

sunshinenbrick wrote: I hear you on the corporation thing but my gripe is that aren't some of the best games developers from modding communities themselves? So have they just lost all their values and replaced it with cash??

 

I just find this hard to come to terms with, I mean isn't this community a living breathing example of what we can achieve when we work together for the profit of our games not pockets.

 

So why are Beth being such a holes about on this??

greggorypeccary wrote: It's called "not seeing the forest for the trees" or "penny wise dollar foolish" or something like that.

sunshinenbrick wrote: Maybe if employees spend enough time making the games they don't actually play them... and mod them. Maybe they just do not understand the community at all!!

Psijonica wrote: sunshinenbrick 6 kudos 97 posts

 

I hear you on the corporation thing but my gripe is that aren't some of the best games developers from modding communities themselves? So have they just lost all their values and replaced it with cash??

 

I just find this hard to come to terms with, I mean isn't this community a living breathing example of what we can achieve when we work together for the profit of our games not pockets.

 

So why are Beth being such a holes about on this??

 

The reason why is because Bethesda gave the CK to us for free and trusted us with it and what did we do to thank them?,, we started to ask for money. As soon as we, the modding community started to ask for money (in the form of donations or whatever else you weant to call it) then we broke the deal. It wasn't free any more.

 

We turned it into a business and Bethesda is saying to us, "If you want to sell your mods, fine, but we are then taking control back and we want our cut."

 

It is their game, their product, their platform. When you bought Skyrim you never owned it. You just bought the privilege of playing it. Some time during the Oblivion craze moddders started to think that they owned their mods and started put "Permission" rules in the read me. Today, Skyrim modders don't even include a read me. That was the beginning of the problem but as soon as the modders started asking for money Bethesda had no choice but to protect themselves.

 

I don't blame Bethesda... I would do the same. So would you. It is a business and now so is modding because money has been brought in. Bethesda is punishing us for our greed. they need to protect their product, their company, their employees and their employees families. that is why they are doing this.

 

This was all just a game, for fun... modding was about sharing and playing nice together. it hasn't been like that for a long time now.

greggorypeccary wrote: I don't think they are trying to punish anyone. I think they are trying to make more money and that is all.

sunshinenbrick wrote: @Psijonica

 

Another very insightful view of the situation. I had not thought about it that way...

 

Perhaps this is a naive question but did Bethesda contact any of the most legendary modders to tell them this was gonna happen? I mean out of respect for the endless content, ideas and bug fixes they have given them over the years?

 

If not then... well I am a little lost for words and again feel really quite sad about all this.

Psijonica wrote: @sunshinenbrick

 

I have to add, and I am not being mean to you when I say this. Really, I have been reading your post for the last couple of days and you have been very polite and I like that and I respect you for it... however...

 

You and others are a little naive when it comes to business. Business is not about being nice. it is cut throat. Do you understand what I mean by that? Bethesda didn't get to where they are today by being nice. They stepped on many shoes to where they are today.

 

With that being said, the original CS for Morrowind was based after a CS that was given away for free back in the early days of home computers before there was an internet. Howard was always influenced by a certain game (i forget the name of it offhand) but he never forgot about it and when they made Morrowind he insisted on releasing the CS. back then it was just for making Houses but it turned into something huge... a modding community.

 

Bethesdas could have stopped it right then but they didn't. They were so cool and trusted us with their property. Trusted us with their tools they created to make their game... and the community respected then and thanked them.

 

Today there is no respect. We take their tools and mod their game and expect that they should be ok with us selling their property without including them.

 

I'm sorry but THIS is not fair. The real question sunshinenbrick, that you should be asking yourself and others is; "Why did we do this to them?"

sunshinenbrick wrote: No disrespect at all but I do actually have a small business. I do conceed the point that I am perhaps naive becasue its not a big one and I don't make a lot of money. And personally I don't want to because I know how worthless money is. I work many days for zip, nada!

 

I like to imagine in the golden age it might have been like that for Bethesda (and Valve) the pinoeering renagades makeing games in a basement with a cobbled together bit of kit.

 

But, and I hope it never happens to me, they seem to have lost their moral compass here. I have read your posts over the last few days and I too try to fight the machine but its very tiring and hard. And everyday they chip away.

 

Suppose there will always be new developers, which is one thing that I feel a little hope over.

markdunck wrote: My only real complaint is how much Bethesda and Steam are making off the backs of the Modders who have done the work. I do not mind shelling out a couple of bucks for a really nicely done mod but not at the percentages that are in place.

greggorypeccary wrote: My mod has a story that takes hours to play, over 6000 dls and a 10% ratio to endorsements. I never got one donation.

What people forget is sites like the nexus also generate 500,000 to 1,000,000,000 a year on average in profits just in adds. Modders here do not see a dime of that, I do know curse throws them a bone for their traffic. I believe Curse made about 1.3 million last year after operating cost in add revenue alone.

 

Cure might pretty sur Nexus isn't pulling down half a MILLION to one BILLION US Dollars in Profit

[Deleted3507349User]

In response to post #24683029. #24683444, #24684209, #24684384, #24684894, #24685094, #24685399, #24685544, #24685969, #24686034, #24692419, #24693154, #24693214 are all replies on the same post.

greggorypeccary wrote:

sunshinenbrick wrote: I hear you on the corporation thing but my gripe is that aren't some of the best games developers from modding communities themselves? So have they just lost all their values and replaced it with cash??

I just find this hard to come to terms with, I mean isn't this community a living breathing example of what we can achieve when we work together for the profit of our games not pockets.

So why are Beth being such a holes about on this??

greggorypeccary wrote: It's called "not seeing the forest for the trees" or "penny wise dollar foolish" or something like that.

sunshinenbrick wrote: Maybe if employees spend enough time making the games they don't actually play them... and mod them. Maybe they just do not understand the community at all!!

Psijonica wrote: sunshinenbrick 6 kudos 97 posts

I hear you on the corporation thing but my gripe is that aren't some of the best games developers from modding communities themselves? So have they just lost all their values and replaced it with cash??

I just find this hard to come to terms with, I mean isn't this community a living breathing example of what we can achieve when we work together for the profit of our games not pockets.

So why are Beth being such a holes about on this??

The reason why is because Bethesda gave the CK to us for free and trusted us with it and what did we do to thank them?,, we started to ask for money. As soon as we, the modding community started to ask for money (in the form of donations or whatever else you weant to call it) then we broke the deal. It wasn't free any more.

We turned it into a business and Bethesda is saying to us, "If you want to sell your mods, fine, but we are then taking control back and we want our cut."

It is their game, their product, their platform. When you bought Skyrim you never owned it. You just bought the privilege of playing it. Some time during the Oblivion craze moddders started to think that they owned their mods and started put "Permission" rules in the read me. Today, Skyrim modders don't even include a read me. That was the beginning of the problem but as soon as the modders started asking for money Bethesda had no choice but to protect themselves.

I don't blame Bethesda... I would do the same. So would you. It is a business and now so is modding because money has been brought in. Bethesda is punishing us for our greed. they need to protect their product, their company, their employees and their employees families. that is why they are doing this.

This was all just a game, for fun... modding was about sharing and playing nice together. it hasn't been like that for a long time now.

greggorypeccary wrote: I don't think they are trying to punish anyone. I think they are trying to make more money and that is all.

sunshinenbrick wrote: @Psijonica

Another very insightful view of the situation. I had not thought about it that way...

Perhaps this is a naive question but did Bethesda contact any of the most legendary modders to tell them this was gonna happen? I mean out of respect for the endless content, ideas and bug fixes they have given them over the years?

If not then... well I am a little lost for words and again feel really quite sad about all this.

Psijonica wrote: @sunshinenbrick

I have to add, and I am not being mean to you when I say this. Really, I have been reading your post for the last couple of days and you have been very polite and I like that and I respect you for it... however...

You and others are a little naive when it comes to business. Business is not about being nice. it is cut throat. Do you understand what I mean by that? Bethesda didn't get to where they are today by being nice. They stepped on many shoes to where they are today.

With that being said, the original CS for Morrowind was based after a CS that was given away for free back in the early days of home computers before there was an internet. Howard was always influenced by a certain game (i forget the name of it offhand) but he never forgot about it and when they made Morrowind he insisted on releasing the CS. back then it was just for making Houses but it turned into something huge... a modding community.

Bethesdas could have stopped it right then but they didn't. They were so cool and trusted us with their property. Trusted us with their tools they created to make their game... and the community respected then and thanked them.

Today there is no respect. We take their tools and mod their game and expect that they should be ok with us selling their property without including them.

I'm sorry but THIS is not fair. The real question sunshinenbrick, that you should be asking yourself and others is; "Why did we do this to them?"

sunshinenbrick wrote: No disrespect at all but I do actually have a small business. I do conceed the point that I am perhaps naive becasue its not a big one and I don't make a lot of money. And personally I don't want to because I know how worthless money is. I work many days for zip, nada!

I like to imagine in the golden age it might have been like that for Bethesda (and Valve) the pinoeering renagades makeing games in a basement with a cobbled together bit of kit.

But, and I hope it never happens to me, they seem to have lost their moral compass here. I have read your posts over the last few days and I too try to fight the machine but its very tiring and hard. And everyday they chip away.

Suppose there will always be new developers, which is one thing that I feel a little hope over.

markdunck wrote: My only real complaint is how much Bethesda and Steam are making off the backs of the Modders who have done the work. I do not mind shelling out a couple of bucks for a really nicely done mod but not at the percentages that are in place.

greggorypeccary wrote: My mod has a story that takes hours to play, over 6000 dls and a 10% ratio to endorsements. I never got one donation.

donta1979 wrote: What people forget is sites like the nexus also generate 500,000 to 1,000,000,000 a year on average in profits just in adds. Modders here do not see a dime of that, I do know curse throws them a bone for their traffic. I believe Curse made about 1.3 million last year after operating cost in add revenue alone.

sunshinenbrick wrote: Greggorypeccary

That is a shame to hear and maybe it is because the donation system is not prominent enough, especially it seems on the none Skyrim pages. Am I missing something?

I do know there is an area in the My Files section to allow people to donate. Is there one to see the Donate tab as well??

I suppose it might all be a bit obtuse because as has been said (which I didn't till today realise) that it is a slightly grey area in regard to the EULA.

@Psijonica

You make a valid point. That's one of the reasons I think the donation system on this site should be removed entirely. If this site is about free modding then it has no business here. There is now a place where modders can go if they think compensation should be a part of modding.