Steam Service Providers, and some how needing to clarify the Nexus stance again

[donta1979]

In response to post #24693229.

nekollx wrote:

oops too many zeros hahaha, but yeah 1,000,000. Curse's was 1.3million last year but the average is 500k-1milllion that's why the game industry has been eyeballing the nexus, curse and other sites for so long. Go do some digging on google, the numbers in add revenue will blow your mind. http://www.siteprice.org/website-worth/www.nexusmods.com Edited April 27, 2015 by donta1979

[UberSmaug]

In response to post #24686879.

rory02 wrote:

LOTR and Star Wars mods are examples that should never be sold for profit. I don't care if you model them from scratch if you are stealing someone's design work you should not profit. If so Lucasarts and Weta deserve a cut too no question. If you are just wakening up to what a copyright is welcome to the real world kid

[mm137]

In response to post #24690879. #24691029 is also a reply to the same post.

FallenKnighte wrote:

Farvahar wrote: I don't think you are correct about the law.

"Even if an Author creates an entirely new Mesh, Texture, etc, that asset is actually owned by the developers of the tools used... 3DSMax, Nifscope, Photoshop... the list goes on."

This is nonsense.

[nekollx]

 

In response to post #24683029. #24683444, #24684209, #24684384, #24684894, #24685094, #24685399, #24685544, #24685969, #24686034, #24692419, #24693154, #24693214 are all replies on the same post.

 

 

 

greggorypeccary wrote:

sunshinenbrick wrote: I hear you on the corporation thing but my gripe is that aren't some of the best games developers from modding communities themselves? So have they just lost all their values and replaced it with cash??

 

I just find this hard to come to terms with, I mean isn't this community a living breathing example of what we can achieve when we work together for the profit of our games not pockets.

 

So why are Beth being such a holes about on this??

greggorypeccary wrote: It's called "not seeing the forest for the trees" or "penny wise dollar foolish" or something like that.

sunshinenbrick wrote: Maybe if employees spend enough time making the games they don't actually play them... and mod them. Maybe they just do not understand the community at all!!

Psijonica wrote: sunshinenbrick 6 kudos 97 posts

 

I hear you on the corporation thing but my gripe is that aren't some of the best games developers from modding communities themselves? So have they just lost all their values and replaced it with cash??

 

I just find this hard to come to terms with, I mean isn't this community a living breathing example of what we can achieve when we work together for the profit of our games not pockets.

 

So why are Beth being such a holes about on this??

 

The reason why is because Bethesda gave the CK to us for free and trusted us with it and what did we do to thank them?,, we started to ask for money. As soon as we, the modding community started to ask for money (in the form of donations or whatever else you weant to call it) then we broke the deal. It wasn't free any more.

 

We turned it into a business and Bethesda is saying to us, "If you want to sell your mods, fine, but we are then taking control back and we want our cut."

 

It is their game, their product, their platform. When you bought Skyrim you never owned it. You just bought the privilege of playing it. Some time during the Oblivion craze moddders started to think that they owned their mods and started put "Permission" rules in the read me. Today, Skyrim modders don't even include a read me. That was the beginning of the problem but as soon as the modders started asking for money Bethesda had no choice but to protect themselves.

 

I don't blame Bethesda... I would do the same. So would you. It is a business and now so is modding because money has been brought in. Bethesda is punishing us for our greed. they need to protect their product, their company, their employees and their employees families. that is why they are doing this.

 

This was all just a game, for fun... modding was about sharing and playing nice together. it hasn't been like that for a long time now.

greggorypeccary wrote: I don't think they are trying to punish anyone. I think they are trying to make more money and that is all.

sunshinenbrick wrote: @Psijonica

 

Another very insightful view of the situation. I had not thought about it that way...

 

Perhaps this is a naive question but did Bethesda contact any of the most legendary modders to tell them this was gonna happen? I mean out of respect for the endless content, ideas and bug fixes they have given them over the years?

 

If not then... well I am a little lost for words and again feel really quite sad about all this.

Psijonica wrote: @sunshinenbrick

 

I have to add, and I am not being mean to you when I say this. Really, I have been reading your post for the last couple of days and you have been very polite and I like that and I respect you for it... however...

 

You and others are a little naive when it comes to business. Business is not about being nice. it is cut throat. Do you understand what I mean by that? Bethesda didn't get to where they are today by being nice. They stepped on many shoes to where they are today.

 

With that being said, the original CS for Morrowind was based after a CS that was given away for free back in the early days of home computers before there was an internet. Howard was always influenced by a certain game (i forget the name of it offhand) but he never forgot about it and when they made Morrowind he insisted on releasing the CS. back then it was just for making Houses but it turned into something huge... a modding community.

 

Bethesdas could have stopped it right then but they didn't. They were so cool and trusted us with their property. Trusted us with their tools they created to make their game... and the community respected then and thanked them.

 

Today there is no respect. We take their tools and mod their game and expect that they should be ok with us selling their property without including them.

 

I'm sorry but THIS is not fair. The real question sunshinenbrick, that you should be asking yourself and others is; "Why did we do this to them?"

sunshinenbrick wrote: No disrespect at all but I do actually have a small business. I do conceed the point that I am perhaps naive becasue its not a big one and I don't make a lot of money. And personally I don't want to because I know how worthless money is. I work many days for zip, nada!

 

I like to imagine in the golden age it might have been like that for Bethesda (and Valve) the pinoeering renagades makeing games in a basement with a cobbled together bit of kit.

 

But, and I hope it never happens to me, they seem to have lost their moral compass here. I have read your posts over the last few days and I too try to fight the machine but its very tiring and hard. And everyday they chip away.

 

Suppose there will always be new developers, which is one thing that I feel a little hope over.

markdunck wrote: My only real complaint is how much Bethesda and Steam are making off the backs of the Modders who have done the work. I do not mind shelling out a couple of bucks for a really nicely done mod but not at the percentages that are in place.

greggorypeccary wrote: My mod has a story that takes hours to play, over 6000 dls and a 10% ratio to endorsements. I never got one donation.

donta1979 wrote: What people forget is sites like the nexus also generate 500,000 to 1,000,000,000 a year on average in profits just in adds. Modders here do not see a dime of that, I do know curse throws them a bone for their traffic. I believe Curse made about 1.3 million last year after operating cost in add revenue alone.

sunshinenbrick wrote: Greggorypeccary

 

That is a shame to hear and maybe it is because the donation system is not prominent enough, especially it seems on the none Skyrim pages. Am I missing something?

 

I do know there is an area in the My Files section to allow people to donate. Is there one to see the Donate tab as well??

 

I suppose it might all be a bit obtuse because as has been said (which I didn't till today realise) that it is a slightly grey area in regard to the EULA.

@Psijonica

 

You make a valid point. That's one of the reasons I think the donation system on this site should be removed entirely. If this site is about free modding then it has no business here. There is now a place where modders can go if they think compensation should be a part of modding.

 

Sure if you feel 25 cents on the dolar added to their Steam Wallet is Compensation

[sunshinenbrick]

In response to post #24683029. #24683444, #24684209, #24684384, #24684894, #24685094, #24685399, #24685544, #24685969, #24686034, #24692419, #24693154, #24693214, #24693254 are all replies on the same post.

greggorypeccary wrote:

sunshinenbrick wrote: I hear you on the corporation thing but my gripe is that aren't some of the best games developers from modding communities themselves? So have they just lost all their values and replaced it with cash??

I just find this hard to come to terms with, I mean isn't this community a living breathing example of what we can achieve when we work together for the profit of our games not pockets.

So why are Beth being such a holes about on this??

greggorypeccary wrote: It's called "not seeing the forest for the trees" or "penny wise dollar foolish" or something like that.

sunshinenbrick wrote: Maybe if employees spend enough time making the games they don't actually play them... and mod them. Maybe they just do not understand the community at all!!

Psijonica wrote: sunshinenbrick 6 kudos 97 posts

I hear you on the corporation thing but my gripe is that aren't some of the best games developers from modding communities themselves? So have they just lost all their values and replaced it with cash??

I just find this hard to come to terms with, I mean isn't this community a living breathing example of what we can achieve when we work together for the profit of our games not pockets.

So why are Beth being such a holes about on this??

The reason why is because Bethesda gave the CK to us for free and trusted us with it and what did we do to thank them?,, we started to ask for money. As soon as we, the modding community started to ask for money (in the form of donations or whatever else you weant to call it) then we broke the deal. It wasn't free any more.

We turned it into a business and Bethesda is saying to us, "If you want to sell your mods, fine, but we are then taking control back and we want our cut."

It is their game, their product, their platform. When you bought Skyrim you never owned it. You just bought the privilege of playing it. Some time during the Oblivion craze moddders started to think that they owned their mods and started put "Permission" rules in the read me. Today, Skyrim modders don't even include a read me. That was the beginning of the problem but as soon as the modders started asking for money Bethesda had no choice but to protect themselves.

I don't blame Bethesda... I would do the same. So would you. It is a business and now so is modding because money has been brought in. Bethesda is punishing us for our greed. they need to protect their product, their company, their employees and their employees families. that is why they are doing this.

This was all just a game, for fun... modding was about sharing and playing nice together. it hasn't been like that for a long time now.

greggorypeccary wrote: I don't think they are trying to punish anyone. I think they are trying to make more money and that is all.

sunshinenbrick wrote: @Psijonica

Another very insightful view of the situation. I had not thought about it that way...

Perhaps this is a naive question but did Bethesda contact any of the most legendary modders to tell them this was gonna happen? I mean out of respect for the endless content, ideas and bug fixes they have given them over the years?

If not then... well I am a little lost for words and again feel really quite sad about all this.

Psijonica wrote: @sunshinenbrick

I have to add, and I am not being mean to you when I say this. Really, I have been reading your post for the last couple of days and you have been very polite and I like that and I respect you for it... however...

You and others are a little naive when it comes to business. Business is not about being nice. it is cut throat. Do you understand what I mean by that? Bethesda didn't get to where they are today by being nice. They stepped on many shoes to where they are today.

With that being said, the original CS for Morrowind was based after a CS that was given away for free back in the early days of home computers before there was an internet. Howard was always influenced by a certain game (i forget the name of it offhand) but he never forgot about it and when they made Morrowind he insisted on releasing the CS. back then it was just for making Houses but it turned into something huge... a modding community.

Bethesdas could have stopped it right then but they didn't. They were so cool and trusted us with their property. Trusted us with their tools they created to make their game... and the community respected then and thanked them.

Today there is no respect. We take their tools and mod their game and expect that they should be ok with us selling their property without including them.

I'm sorry but THIS is not fair. The real question sunshinenbrick, that you should be asking yourself and others is; "Why did we do this to them?"

sunshinenbrick wrote: No disrespect at all but I do actually have a small business. I do conceed the point that I am perhaps naive becasue its not a big one and I don't make a lot of money. And personally I don't want to because I know how worthless money is. I work many days for zip, nada!

I like to imagine in the golden age it might have been like that for Bethesda (and Valve) the pinoeering renagades makeing games in a basement with a cobbled together bit of kit.

But, and I hope it never happens to me, they seem to have lost their moral compass here. I have read your posts over the last few days and I too try to fight the machine but its very tiring and hard. And everyday they chip away.

Suppose there will always be new developers, which is one thing that I feel a little hope over.

markdunck wrote: My only real complaint is how much Bethesda and Steam are making off the backs of the Modders who have done the work. I do not mind shelling out a couple of bucks for a really nicely done mod but not at the percentages that are in place.

greggorypeccary wrote: My mod has a story that takes hours to play, over 6000 dls and a 10% ratio to endorsements. I never got one donation.

donta1979 wrote: What people forget is sites like the nexus also generate 500,000 to 1,000,000 a year on average in profits just in adds. Modders here do not see a dime of that, I do know curse throws them a bone for their traffic. I believe Curse made about 1.3 million last year after operating cost in add revenue alone.

sunshinenbrick wrote: Greggorypeccary

That is a shame to hear and maybe it is because the donation system is not prominent enough, especially it seems on the none Skyrim pages. Am I missing something?

I do know there is an area in the My Files section to allow people to donate. Is there one to see the Donate tab as well??

I suppose it might all be a bit obtuse because as has been said (which I didn't till today realise) that it is a slightly grey area in regard to the EULA.

digitaltrucker wrote: @Psijonica

You make a valid point. That's one of the reasons I think the donation system on this site should be removed entirely. If this site is about free modding then it has no business here. There is now a place where modders can go if they think compensation should be a part of modding.

I think there is a case to say that perhaps we are not donating for individual mods but for modDING, the modder themselves, their work, time and effort.

[nekollx]

 

In response to post #24683029. #24683444, #24684209, #24684384, #24684894, #24685094, #24685399, #24685544, #24685969, #24686034, #24692419, #24693154, #24693214, #24693254 are all replies on the same post.

 

 

 

greggorypeccary wrote:

sunshinenbrick wrote: I hear you on the corporation thing but my gripe is that aren't some of the best games developers from modding communities themselves? So have they just lost all their values and replaced it with cash??

 

I just find this hard to come to terms with, I mean isn't this community a living breathing example of what we can achieve when we work together for the profit of our games not pockets.

 

So why are Beth being such a holes about on this??

greggorypeccary wrote: It's called "not seeing the forest for the trees" or "penny wise dollar foolish" or something like that.

sunshinenbrick wrote: Maybe if employees spend enough time making the games they don't actually play them... and mod them. Maybe they just do not understand the community at all!!

Psijonica wrote: sunshinenbrick 6 kudos 97 posts

 

I hear you on the corporation thing but my gripe is that aren't some of the best games developers from modding communities themselves? So have they just lost all their values and replaced it with cash??

 

I just find this hard to come to terms with, I mean isn't this community a living breathing example of what we can achieve when we work together for the profit of our games not pockets.

 

So why are Beth being such a holes about on this??

 

The reason why is because Bethesda gave the CK to us for free and trusted us with it and what did we do to thank them?,, we started to ask for money. As soon as we, the modding community started to ask for money (in the form of donations or whatever else you weant to call it) then we broke the deal. It wasn't free any more.

 

We turned it into a business and Bethesda is saying to us, "If you want to sell your mods, fine, but we are then taking control back and we want our cut."

 

It is their game, their product, their platform. When you bought Skyrim you never owned it. You just bought the privilege of playing it. Some time during the Oblivion craze moddders started to think that they owned their mods and started put "Permission" rules in the read me. Today, Skyrim modders don't even include a read me. That was the beginning of the problem but as soon as the modders started asking for money Bethesda had no choice but to protect themselves.

 

I don't blame Bethesda... I would do the same. So would you. It is a business and now so is modding because money has been brought in. Bethesda is punishing us for our greed. they need to protect their product, their company, their employees and their employees families. that is why they are doing this.

 

This was all just a game, for fun... modding was about sharing and playing nice together. it hasn't been like that for a long time now.

greggorypeccary wrote: I don't think they are trying to punish anyone. I think they are trying to make more money and that is all.

sunshinenbrick wrote: @Psijonica

 

Another very insightful view of the situation. I had not thought about it that way...

 

Perhaps this is a naive question but did Bethesda contact any of the most legendary modders to tell them this was gonna happen? I mean out of respect for the endless content, ideas and bug fixes they have given them over the years?

 

If not then... well I am a little lost for words and again feel really quite sad about all this.

Psijonica wrote: @sunshinenbrick

 

I have to add, and I am not being mean to you when I say this. Really, I have been reading your post for the last couple of days and you have been very polite and I like that and I respect you for it... however...

 

You and others are a little naive when it comes to business. Business is not about being nice. it is cut throat. Do you understand what I mean by that? Bethesda didn't get to where they are today by being nice. They stepped on many shoes to where they are today.

 

With that being said, the original CS for Morrowind was based after a CS that was given away for free back in the early days of home computers before there was an internet. Howard was always influenced by a certain game (i forget the name of it offhand) but he never forgot about it and when they made Morrowind he insisted on releasing the CS. back then it was just for making Houses but it turned into something huge... a modding community.

 

Bethesdas could have stopped it right then but they didn't. They were so cool and trusted us with their property. Trusted us with their tools they created to make their game... and the community respected then and thanked them.

 

Today there is no respect. We take their tools and mod their game and expect that they should be ok with us selling their property without including them.

 

I'm sorry but THIS is not fair. The real question sunshinenbrick, that you should be asking yourself and others is; "Why did we do this to them?"

sunshinenbrick wrote: No disrespect at all but I do actually have a small business. I do conceed the point that I am perhaps naive becasue its not a big one and I don't make a lot of money. And personally I don't want to because I know how worthless money is. I work many days for zip, nada!

 

I like to imagine in the golden age it might have been like that for Bethesda (and Valve) the pinoeering renagades makeing games in a basement with a cobbled together bit of kit.

 

But, and I hope it never happens to me, they seem to have lost their moral compass here. I have read your posts over the last few days and I too try to fight the machine but its very tiring and hard. And everyday they chip away.

 

Suppose there will always be new developers, which is one thing that I feel a little hope over.

markdunck wrote: My only real complaint is how much Bethesda and Steam are making off the backs of the Modders who have done the work. I do not mind shelling out a couple of bucks for a really nicely done mod but not at the percentages that are in place.

greggorypeccary wrote: My mod has a story that takes hours to play, over 6000 dls and a 10% ratio to endorsements. I never got one donation.

donta1979 wrote: What people forget is sites like the nexus also generate 500,000 to 1,000,000 a year on average in profits just in adds. Modders here do not see a dime of that, I do know curse throws them a bone for their traffic. I believe Curse made about 1.3 million last year after operating cost in add revenue alone.

sunshinenbrick wrote: Greggorypeccary

 

That is a shame to hear and maybe it is because the donation system is not prominent enough, especially it seems on the none Skyrim pages. Am I missing something?

 

I do know there is an area in the My Files section to allow people to donate. Is there one to see the Donate tab as well??

 

I suppose it might all be a bit obtuse because as has been said (which I didn't till today realise) that it is a slightly grey area in regard to the EULA.

digitaltrucker wrote: @Psijonica

 

You make a valid point. That's one of the reasons I think the donation system on this site should be removed entirely. If this site is about free modding then it has no business here. There is now a place where modders can go if they think compensation should be a part of modding.

I think there is a case to say that perhaps we are not donating for individual mods but for modDING, the modder themselves, their work, time and effort.

 

THANK YOU! Somone else who GETS it.

 

Where's my upvote button Dark0ne!

[Deleted3507349User]

In response to post #24683029. #24683444, #24684209, #24684384, #24684894, #24685094, #24685399, #24685544, #24685969, #24686034, #24692419, #24693154, #24693214, #24693254, #24693364 are all replies on the same post.

greggorypeccary wrote:

sunshinenbrick wrote: I hear you on the corporation thing but my gripe is that aren't some of the best games developers from modding communities themselves? So have they just lost all their values and replaced it with cash??

I just find this hard to come to terms with, I mean isn't this community a living breathing example of what we can achieve when we work together for the profit of our games not pockets.

So why are Beth being such a holes about on this??

greggorypeccary wrote: It's called "not seeing the forest for the trees" or "penny wise dollar foolish" or something like that.

sunshinenbrick wrote: Maybe if employees spend enough time making the games they don't actually play them... and mod them. Maybe they just do not understand the community at all!!

Psijonica wrote: sunshinenbrick 6 kudos 97 posts

I hear you on the corporation thing but my gripe is that aren't some of the best games developers from modding communities themselves? So have they just lost all their values and replaced it with cash??

I just find this hard to come to terms with, I mean isn't this community a living breathing example of what we can achieve when we work together for the profit of our games not pockets.

So why are Beth being such a holes about on this??

The reason why is because Bethesda gave the CK to us for free and trusted us with it and what did we do to thank them?,, we started to ask for money. As soon as we, the modding community started to ask for money (in the form of donations or whatever else you weant to call it) then we broke the deal. It wasn't free any more.

We turned it into a business and Bethesda is saying to us, "If you want to sell your mods, fine, but we are then taking control back and we want our cut."

It is their game, their product, their platform. When you bought Skyrim you never owned it. You just bought the privilege of playing it. Some time during the Oblivion craze moddders started to think that they owned their mods and started put "Permission" rules in the read me. Today, Skyrim modders don't even include a read me. That was the beginning of the problem but as soon as the modders started asking for money Bethesda had no choice but to protect themselves.

I don't blame Bethesda... I would do the same. So would you. It is a business and now so is modding because money has been brought in. Bethesda is punishing us for our greed. they need to protect their product, their company, their employees and their employees families. that is why they are doing this.

This was all just a game, for fun... modding was about sharing and playing nice together. it hasn't been like that for a long time now.

greggorypeccary wrote: I don't think they are trying to punish anyone. I think they are trying to make more money and that is all.

sunshinenbrick wrote: @Psijonica

Another very insightful view of the situation. I had not thought about it that way...

Perhaps this is a naive question but did Bethesda contact any of the most legendary modders to tell them this was gonna happen? I mean out of respect for the endless content, ideas and bug fixes they have given them over the years?

If not then... well I am a little lost for words and again feel really quite sad about all this.

Psijonica wrote: @sunshinenbrick

I have to add, and I am not being mean to you when I say this. Really, I have been reading your post for the last couple of days and you have been very polite and I like that and I respect you for it... however...

You and others are a little naive when it comes to business. Business is not about being nice. it is cut throat. Do you understand what I mean by that? Bethesda didn't get to where they are today by being nice. They stepped on many shoes to where they are today.

With that being said, the original CS for Morrowind was based after a CS that was given away for free back in the early days of home computers before there was an internet. Howard was always influenced by a certain game (i forget the name of it offhand) but he never forgot about it and when they made Morrowind he insisted on releasing the CS. back then it was just for making Houses but it turned into something huge... a modding community.

Bethesdas could have stopped it right then but they didn't. They were so cool and trusted us with their property. Trusted us with their tools they created to make their game... and the community respected then and thanked them.

Today there is no respect. We take their tools and mod their game and expect that they should be ok with us selling their property without including them.

I'm sorry but THIS is not fair. The real question sunshinenbrick, that you should be asking yourself and others is; "Why did we do this to them?"

sunshinenbrick wrote: No disrespect at all but I do actually have a small business. I do conceed the point that I am perhaps naive becasue its not a big one and I don't make a lot of money. And personally I don't want to because I know how worthless money is. I work many days for zip, nada!

I like to imagine in the golden age it might have been like that for Bethesda (and Valve) the pinoeering renagades makeing games in a basement with a cobbled together bit of kit.

But, and I hope it never happens to me, they seem to have lost their moral compass here. I have read your posts over the last few days and I too try to fight the machine but its very tiring and hard. And everyday they chip away.

Suppose there will always be new developers, which is one thing that I feel a little hope over.

markdunck wrote: My only real complaint is how much Bethesda and Steam are making off the backs of the Modders who have done the work. I do not mind shelling out a couple of bucks for a really nicely done mod but not at the percentages that are in place.

greggorypeccary wrote: My mod has a story that takes hours to play, over 6000 dls and a 10% ratio to endorsements. I never got one donation.

donta1979 wrote: What people forget is sites like the nexus also generate 500,000 to 1,000,000 a year on average in profits just in adds. Modders here do not see a dime of that, I do know curse throws them a bone"modders/content creators" for their traffic. I believe Curse made about 1.3 million last year after operating cost in add revenue alone.

sunshinenbrick wrote: Greggorypeccary

That is a shame to hear and maybe it is because the donation system is not prominent enough, especially it seems on the none Skyrim pages. Am I missing something?

I do know there is an area in the My Files section to allow people to donate. Is there one to see the Donate tab as well??

I suppose it might all be a bit obtuse because as has been said (which I didn't till today realise) that it is a slightly grey area in regard to the EULA.

digitaltrucker wrote: @Psijonica

You make a valid point. That's one of the reasons I think the donation system on this site should be removed entirely. If this site is about free modding then it has no business here. There is now a place where modders can go if they think compensation should be a part of modding.

sunshinenbrick wrote: I think there is a case to say that perhaps we are not donating for individual mods but for modDING, the modder themselves, their work, time and effort.

Whatever your cause, you're donating to a modder. The intentions behind it are irrelevant. Whether the modders deserve it or not is irrelevant.

[sunshinenbrick]

In response to post #24683029. #24683444, #24684209, #24684384, #24684894, #24685094, #24685399, #24685544, #24685969, #24686034, #24692419, #24693154, #24693214, #24693254, #24693364, #24693459 are all replies on the same post.

greggorypeccary wrote:

sunshinenbrick wrote: I hear you on the corporation thing but my gripe is that aren't some of the best games developers from modding communities themselves? So have they just lost all their values and replaced it with cash??

I just find this hard to come to terms with, I mean isn't this community a living breathing example of what we can achieve when we work together for the profit of our games not pockets.

So why are Beth being such a holes about on this??

greggorypeccary wrote: It's called "not seeing the forest for the trees" or "penny wise dollar foolish" or something like that.

sunshinenbrick wrote: Maybe if employees spend enough time making the games they don't actually play them... and mod them. Maybe they just do not understand the community at all!!

Psijonica wrote: sunshinenbrick 6 kudos 97 posts

I hear you on the corporation thing but my gripe is that aren't some of the best games developers from modding communities themselves? So have they just lost all their values and replaced it with cash??

I just find this hard to come to terms with, I mean isn't this community a living breathing example of what we can achieve when we work together for the profit of our games not pockets.

So why are Beth being such a holes about on this??

The reason why is because Bethesda gave the CK to us for free and trusted us with it and what did we do to thank them?,, we started to ask for money. As soon as we, the modding community started to ask for money (in the form of donations or whatever else you weant to call it) then we broke the deal. It wasn't free any more.

We turned it into a business and Bethesda is saying to us, "If you want to sell your mods, fine, but we are then taking control back and we want our cut."

It is their game, their product, their platform. When you bought Skyrim you never owned it. You just bought the privilege of playing it. Some time during the Oblivion craze moddders started to think that they owned their mods and started put "Permission" rules in the read me. Today, Skyrim modders don't even include a read me. That was the beginning of the problem but as soon as the modders started asking for money Bethesda had no choice but to protect themselves.

I don't blame Bethesda... I would do the same. So would you. It is a business and now so is modding because money has been brought in. Bethesda is punishing us for our greed. they need to protect their product, their company, their employees and their employees families. that is why they are doing this.

This was all just a game, for fun... modding was about sharing and playing nice together. it hasn't been like that for a long time now.

greggorypeccary wrote: I don't think they are trying to punish anyone. I think they are trying to make more money and that is all.

sunshinenbrick wrote: @Psijonica

Another very insightful view of the situation. I had not thought about it that way...

Perhaps this is a naive question but did Bethesda contact any of the most legendary modders to tell them this was gonna happen? I mean out of respect for the endless content, ideas and bug fixes they have given them over the years?

If not then... well I am a little lost for words and again feel really quite sad about all this.

Psijonica wrote: @sunshinenbrick

I have to add, and I am not being mean to you when I say this. Really, I have been reading your post for the last couple of days and you have been very polite and I like that and I respect you for it... however...

You and others are a little naive when it comes to business. Business is not about being nice. it is cut throat. Do you understand what I mean by that? Bethesda didn't get to where they are today by being nice. They stepped on many shoes to where they are today.

With that being said, the original CS for Morrowind was based after a CS that was given away for free back in the early days of home computers before there was an internet. Howard was always influenced by a certain game (i forget the name of it offhand) but he never forgot about it and when they made Morrowind he insisted on releasing the CS. back then it was just for making Houses but it turned into something huge... a modding community.

Bethesdas could have stopped it right then but they didn't. They were so cool and trusted us with their property. Trusted us with their tools they created to make their game... and the community respected then and thanked them.

Today there is no respect. We take their tools and mod their game and expect that they should be ok with us selling their property without including them.

I'm sorry but THIS is not fair. The real question sunshinenbrick, that you should be asking yourself and others is; "Why did we do this to them?"

sunshinenbrick wrote: No disrespect at all but I do actually have a small business. I do conceed the point that I am perhaps naive becasue its not a big one and I don't make a lot of money. And personally I don't want to because I know how worthless money is. I work many days for zip, nada!

I like to imagine in the golden age it might have been like that for Bethesda (and Valve) the pinoeering renagades makeing games in a basement with a cobbled together bit of kit.

But, and I hope it never happens to me, they seem to have lost their moral compass here. I have read your posts over the last few days and I too try to fight the machine but its very tiring and hard. And everyday they chip away.

Suppose there will always be new developers, which is one thing that I feel a little hope over.

markdunck wrote: My only real complaint is how much Bethesda and Steam are making off the backs of the Modders who have done the work. I do not mind shelling out a couple of bucks for a really nicely done mod but not at the percentages that are in place.

greggorypeccary wrote: My mod has a story that takes hours to play, over 6000 dls and a 10% ratio to endorsements. I never got one donation.

donta1979 wrote: What people forget is sites like the nexus also generate 500,000 to 1,000,000 a year on average in profits just in adds. Modders here do not see a dime of that, I do know curse throws them a bone"modders/content creators" for their traffic. I believe Curse made about 1.3 million last year after operating cost in add revenue alone. Modding is big business believe it or not especially today with site adds and high speed internet.

sunshinenbrick wrote: Greggorypeccary

That is a shame to hear and maybe it is because the donation system is not prominent enough, especially it seems on the none Skyrim pages. Am I missing something?

I do know there is an area in the My Files section to allow people to donate. Is there one to see the Donate tab as well??

I suppose it might all be a bit obtuse because as has been said (which I didn't till today realise) that it is a slightly grey area in regard to the EULA.

digitaltrucker wrote: @Psijonica

You make a valid point. That's one of the reasons I think the donation system on this site should be removed entirely. If this site is about free modding then it has no business here. There is now a place where modders can go if they think compensation should be a part of modding.

sunshinenbrick wrote: I think there is a case to say that perhaps we are not donating for individual mods but for modDING, the modder themselves, their work, time and effort.

digitaltrucker wrote: Whatever your cause, you're donating to a modder. The intentions behind it are irrelevant. Whether the modders deserve it or not is irrelevant.

Is it not possible to donate for a piece of advice or the kind words that someone offers?

[rory02]

In response to post #24686879. #24693334 is also a reply to the same post.

rory02 wrote:

UberSmaug wrote: LOTR and Star Wars mods are examples that should never be sold for profit. I don't care if you model them from scratch if you are stealing someone's design work you should not profit. If so Lucasarts and Weta deserve a cut too no question. If you are just wakening up to what a copyright is welcome to the real world kid

you missed my point, kid. I'm not saying they should be sold for the modder's profit, I'm saying that if this new system takes off, Disney and the like may well swoop in and say, you are NOT allowed to give this mod away for free, you must charge for us and give us your cut. which sucks for everyone but them. don't take for granted that the current modding scene will be allowed to survive once the money starts flowing Edited April 26, 2015 by rory02

[greggorypeccary]

In response to post #24683029. #24683444, #24684209, #24684384, #24684894, #24685094, #24685399, #24685544, #24685969, #24686034, #24692419, #24693154, #24693214, #24693254, #24693364, #24693459, #24693549 are all replies on the same post.

greggorypeccary wrote:

sunshinenbrick wrote: I hear you on the corporation thing but my gripe is that aren't some of the best games developers from modding communities themselves? So have they just lost all their values and replaced it with cash??

I just find this hard to come to terms with, I mean isn't this community a living breathing example of what we can achieve when we work together for the profit of our games not pockets.

So why are Beth being such a holes about on this??

greggorypeccary wrote: It's called "not seeing the forest for the trees" or "penny wise dollar foolish" or something like that.

sunshinenbrick wrote: Maybe if employees spend enough time making the games they don't actually play them... and mod them. Maybe they just do not understand the community at all!!

Psijonica wrote: sunshinenbrick 6 kudos 97 posts

I hear you on the corporation thing but my gripe is that aren't some of the best games developers from modding communities themselves? So have they just lost all their values and replaced it with cash??

I just find this hard to come to terms with, I mean isn't this community a living breathing example of what we can achieve when we work together for the profit of our games not pockets.

So why are Beth being such a holes about on this??

The reason why is because Bethesda gave the CK to us for free and trusted us with it and what did we do to thank them?,, we started to ask for money. As soon as we, the modding community started to ask for money (in the form of donations or whatever else you weant to call it) then we broke the deal. It wasn't free any more.

We turned it into a business and Bethesda is saying to us, "If you want to sell your mods, fine, but we are then taking control back and we want our cut."

It is their game, their product, their platform. When you bought Skyrim you never owned it. You just bought the privilege of playing it. Some time during the Oblivion craze moddders started to think that they owned their mods and started put "Permission" rules in the read me. Today, Skyrim modders don't even include a read me. That was the beginning of the problem but as soon as the modders started asking for money Bethesda had no choice but to protect themselves.

I don't blame Bethesda... I would do the same. So would you. It is a business and now so is modding because money has been brought in. Bethesda is punishing us for our greed. they need to protect their product, their company, their employees and their employees families. that is why they are doing this.

This was all just a game, for fun... modding was about sharing and playing nice together. it hasn't been like that for a long time now.

greggorypeccary wrote: I don't think they are trying to punish anyone. I think they are trying to make more money and that is all.

sunshinenbrick wrote: @Psijonica

Another very insightful view of the situation. I had not thought about it that way...

Perhaps this is a naive question but did Bethesda contact any of the most legendary modders to tell them this was gonna happen? I mean out of respect for the endless content, ideas and bug fixes they have given them over the years?

If not then... well I am a little lost for words and again feel really quite sad about all this.

Psijonica wrote: @sunshinenbrick

I have to add, and I am not being mean to you when I say this. Really, I have been reading your post for the last couple of days and you have been very polite and I like that and I respect you for it... however...

You and others are a little naive when it comes to business. Business is not about being nice. it is cut throat. Do you understand what I mean by that? Bethesda didn't get to where they are today by being nice. They stepped on many shoes to where they are today.

With that being said, the original CS for Morrowind was based after a CS that was given away for free back in the early days of home computers before there was an internet. Howard was always influenced by a certain game (i forget the name of it offhand) but he never forgot about it and when they made Morrowind he insisted on releasing the CS. back then it was just for making Houses but it turned into something huge... a modding community.

Bethesdas could have stopped it right then but they didn't. They were so cool and trusted us with their property. Trusted us with their tools they created to make their game... and the community respected then and thanked them.

Today there is no respect. We take their tools and mod their game and expect that they should be ok with us selling their property without including them.

I'm sorry but THIS is not fair. The real question sunshinenbrick, that you should be asking yourself and others is; "Why did we do this to them?"

sunshinenbrick wrote: No disrespect at all but I do actually have a small business. I do conceed the point that I am perhaps naive becasue its not a big one and I don't make a lot of money. And personally I don't want to because I know how worthless money is. I work many days for zip, nada!

I like to imagine in the golden age it might have been like that for Bethesda (and Valve) the pinoeering renagades makeing games in a basement with a cobbled together bit of kit.

But, and I hope it never happens to me, they seem to have lost their moral compass here. I have read your posts over the last few days and I too try to fight the machine but its very tiring and hard. And everyday they chip away.

Suppose there will always be new developers, which is one thing that I feel a little hope over.

markdunck wrote: My only real complaint is how much Bethesda and Steam are making off the backs of the Modders who have done the work. I do not mind shelling out a couple of bucks for a really nicely done mod but not at the percentages that are in place.

greggorypeccary wrote: My mod has a story that takes hours to play, over 6000 dls and a 10% ratio to endorsements. I never got one donation.

donta1979 wrote: What people forget is sites like the nexus also generate 500,000 to 1,000,000 a year on average in profits just in adds. Modders here do not see a dime of that, I do know curse throws them a bone"modders/content creators" for their traffic. I believe Curse made about 1.3 million last year after operating cost in add revenue alone. Modding is big business believe it or not especially today with site adds and high speed internet. If you look up how much the average day on the nexus and how much add revenue is generated its $8,035 USD a day on average.

sunshinenbrick wrote: Greggorypeccary

That is a shame to hear and maybe it is because the donation system is not prominent enough, especially it seems on the none Skyrim pages. Am I missing something?

I do know there is an area in the My Files section to allow people to donate. Is there one to see the Donate tab as well??

I suppose it might all be a bit obtuse because as has been said (which I didn't till today realise) that it is a slightly grey area in regard to the EULA.

digitaltrucker wrote: @Psijonica

You make a valid point. That's one of the reasons I think the donation system on this site should be removed entirely. If this site is about free modding then it has no business here. There is now a place where modders can go if they think compensation should be a part of modding.

sunshinenbrick wrote: I think there is a case to say that perhaps we are not donating for individual mods but for modDING, the modder themselves, their work, time and effort.

digitaltrucker wrote: Whatever your cause, you're donating to a modder. The intentions behind it are irrelevant. Whether the modders deserve it or not is irrelevant.

sunshinenbrick wrote: Is it not possible to donate for a piece of advice or the kind words that someone offers?

digitaltrucker this site is not about free modding. It is about making money off people with creative compulsions.

As a modder you make a mod that maybe took many, many, I mean many hours. Some people like it, some complain about it. A lot of people take it for free and never say anything. There might be "review" videos made where some guy who thinks he is a stand up comedian half heartedly plays it while he tries to think up jokes about it. Nexus makes money. Steam makes money. Bethesda makes money. Microphone companies, Video card companies, computer companies and even the electric company makes money. Modders get used. Why? because they have a creative compulsion and no outlet for their work.

End result I learned a lot and will never make another one. I have now leased a game engine and am making my own game. Edited April 27, 2015 by greggorypeccary