Steam Service Providers, and some how needing to clarify the Nexus stance again

[nekollx]

 

In response to post #24705789.

 

 

 

nekollx wrote:

No that's very practical of you. I,m not gonna quit my job for that but it helps. And it not just pocket change. This is not conspiracy and speculation its fact.

 

Jerb? What is this Jerb? As a full time student (and independent game developer for Steam, XBONE and Wii U) i don't have the time for a jerb...Which really suck when ive spent half this symester bed ridden...i am not looking forward to finals week....ugh...

[Elathia]

I tried to read all of that, but I was already convinced a 1/3 of the way through. If you are truly sincere then so be it, at least I will stick by you.

[nekollx]

Anyway the point i was hitting at was for all those numbers remember subs are one time only, so lets take the top example of Purity, if it was my mod it would mean for the month of May my rent and food (but not utility like electric mind you) would be paid for and then....nothing...

 

Still having a month of your expenses paid is nice but unless another 25k people sub in may, and given this kerfuffly and the likly hood or refunds that 1k for may isn't even a given.

 

Honestly i don't know HOW Gopher pulls in 3k EVERY month with his Patreon, THAT's a more livable wage. Hell if my modding/lps/tutorials pulled in the low end of 117 every month, instead of a single wind fall, i could get off Well Fair (well food stamps i still need medi-cal after all)

 

In short don't let the number fool you those moders are looking at worst a windfall good for a single month, at best 3 months unless they Keep putting out paid content, and if they do that then modding becomes essentially a job only one with a Less stable pay grade. But on the other hand if a modder can put out consistent content month to month and pay their bills with it that's a good thing right? It's brings in more mods and raises moding profile from that "geeky hobby thing"

 

to "viable career"

 

Which i turn gets us ALL (yes even the free modders) taken more seriously by the big outlets, hell we already saw it a bit with Chesko, FORBES, freaking FORBES was talking about him! Mother Faizing FORBES! Do you have ANY idea how big a deal having modding discussed in FORBES is for ALL of us?

 

i think a Halle Berry quote fits here.

 

"I do [movies like Catwoman] knowing they aren't the best so i can afford to do things like Monster"

 

If this Valve Scam is what it takes for to be able to say proudly as a community "i make mods for games" instead of whispering it behind closed doors and if a handful of paid mods per month would alow Isoku, chesko, and the like to take it seriously as a job and give them more free time to continue to make FREE mods then I can't help but say "go for it"

 

If a few paid mods will open the doors for more quality free mods and modding taken more sueriously as a whole (and maybe even getting folks like Bethesda to make better modding tools) I say Go for it.

 

The only real hurdel is Steam GOD AWFUL System to make things happen.

Edited April 27, 2015 by nekollx

[falcor23]

In response to post #24706469.

nekollx wrote:

Yes but many mods are being bought, copied uploaded to a torrent sites, (the pirated mod depo in /R/ is a great example look at how fast its growing 51st fasting growing subreddit) , then they are refunded and all the modder did was give it out free again.

This is the problem, the modder has very little control of their mods once its on the workshop. This is coming from someone who has put out hundreds in donations, I really just want modders to get what they deserve but not put people that cant afford 5 dollar mods out in the rain.

This is just a giant mess. A mess that was never necessary.

[nekollx]

 

In response to post #24706469.

 

 

 

nekollx wrote:

Yes but many mods are being bought, copied uploaded to a torrent sites, (the pirated mod depo in /R/ is a great example look at how fast its growing 51st fasting growing subreddit) , then they are refunded and all the modder did was give it out free again.

 

This is the problem, the modder has very little control of their mods once its on the workshop. This is coming from someone who has put out hundreds in donations, I really just want modders to get what they deserve but not put people that cant afford 5 dollar mods out in the rain.

 

This is just a giant mess. A mess that was never necessary.

 

i never said the system wasn't a mess, but it's sparking a change We SORELY need.

 

Remember it wasn't that long ago (reletivly speaking) Video Games were something done in college back rooms, and NO ONE ever suspected THOSE silly little things to become a multi billion dollar industry.

 

or those crazy moving pictures, i mean honestly 25 Cents for a man walking OUTRAGEOUS, it's a fun distraction but a billion dolar industry emplying hundreds of people on a daily basis, that's crazy talk.

 

And you know what their are still free games and movies out in the wild today, i fact i was watching a few on this crazy site, maybe you have heard of it Hulu and Youtube. I didn't have to pay a dime for those movies. And Street Fighter X Mega Man was one of the best games of last year hands down, and it was free. Will moding become Pay to play as it's main stay, i can't see it du to its nature as a dirivitive product but if oh i dunno 25% of all mods are Paid and that 25% raises the profile for ALL Modders well i can't say it wrong.

[Dark0ne]

In response to post #24699154. #24699914, #24700424, #24700529, #24700669, #24700794, #24700844, #24700949, #24701494, #24701854, #24702124, #24702184, #24702309, #24702704, #24703104, #24703354, #24703374, #24704484, #24704939, #24705069, #24705264 are all replies on the same post.

Chesko wrote:

popcorn71 wrote: So your just going to leave and pretend none of this ever happened? I feel bad for you. I really do. But the way I see things, you have a responsibility to help fix this mess that you are, how ever unwittingly, impart responsible for. I think you'll find that if you really try to make amends people will be surprisingly willing to forgive you and even rally around and defend you. This is a community after all.

Fowldragon wrote: OMFG...Even if you're his DADDY, you got no right to expect a thing from this man. The man tapped out...its time to release the hold.

anonownsyou wrote: I love you Chesko, I really don't get to say that enough. Hang in there, despite the way the wind may be blowing, you're among friends.

WightMage wrote: You're a good man for coming back to apologize to Robin, Chesko. Not many people would swallow their pride like that- not in this industry, and most certainly not on the internet.

I'm sure that all will be forgiven in time, from the rest of us modders, but you should enjoy your time away. Think of it more as an extended vacation than self exile. ;)

Best.

popcorn71 wrote: @ Fowldragon
Oh, yes I do have a right to expect him to fix his mistakes. And you do too.
He did an enormous amount of damage by not thinking his actions through. But that wasn't my point. As some one who has personal experienced how these things can turn out, Chesko is in a somewhat unique position to rally the community and actually make a difference. If he has even a shred of decency, he will work to ensure no one else goes through what he has.

sunshinenbrick wrote: I do not know you personally at all but as a community member, and it just puzzles me as to why you would go on about how you look so fondly on it as family member while you are being abused by the people you are going to be working for.

And there was me spending my weekend working on ways in which I may help this community fight for mod creator protection.

I hope you stand up for other modders so they do not get treated the way you have been.

Sorry to be so rude.

EDIT: I realise this is not Chesko's fault. It's just it really feels like their is a fight for our survival... or maybe relevance. I am not a social media buff but I have been glued to a chat room the past two days.

I can conceed that he is an older member who contributes a great deal more than I, but I really hope that Nexus stays a part of the picture and being some one of such influence maybe that can make a difference for us "little folk"

WightMage wrote: The abuse he's receiving does not preclude him from remembering the years of good that he experienced working here. And Chesko has been around awhile- longer than both of us, I imagine.

It's hard to let go when you have that kind of attachment.

popcorn71 wrote: Part of the reason he has been abused so badly is because he was so well respected. he was probably one for the last people I would have expected to go off and do something so collosaly stupid as what he did and he has payed dearly for it. You know the old saying: "the bigger they are, the harder they fall"? Well, case and point.

Believe me, I have an enormous amount of respect for Chesko. I took the time to dig through the scripts of Frostfall and figure out how it works. That mods a friken work of art. But just because I respect him doesn't mean I'm willing to give him a free pass.

WightMage wrote: No one is beyond reproach, but I believe Chesko can be forgiven in time. He's only human, after all.

Fowldragon wrote: @Popcorn

I get what you're saying...I mean really. But I am reading all of this and remembering reading Dark0ne's earlier blogs that he quoted. This might well have been something anticipated, but it was sprung in a moment...and likely as not it was purposeful in that respect...

Getting Dark' and Chesko to be at odds...getting veteran modders to speak of betrayal and question character...HELL that's just Icing on their Cake.

diyeath wrote: That's pretty mature of you to come here and say that. I'm sorry you ended up on the recieving end of so much abuse. I hope you don't take those crazies who were threatening you as the normal, they're the vocal minority.

I encourage you to come back to nexus, at this point everyone knows what happened and I think I can safely speak for most other mature members when I say I understand your position and not being used to that kind of flak. As far as I'm concerned its all water under the bridge.

In any case, regardless of what you decide I hope things are better for you now. Take care!

popcorn71 wrote: @ Fowldragon
Don't I know it. This whole thing stinks to high heaven. At this point you'd have to be out of your mind bat s#*! craze to put your mod up for sale on the workshop. And the worst part is some prominent moders are doing just that. Can any one say SkyUi?

UberSmaug wrote: Chesko as I see it you are the victim of bad advice. Whoever told you that if mod A needs mod B to work and mod A is paid for but mod B is free doesn't matter bears the most of the blame. Of course that matters. You got crucified for it unjustly. This was bound to happen to someone I'm sorry it was you. My heart goes out to you and I understand completely why you want to hide out for a bit. I hope you come back to us if and when you are ready. Cheers Mate.

Reaper0021 wrote: Chesko...your mods are ESSENTIAL for me to even begin to touch Skyrim. Period. That's what hurt me the most was seeing my favorite modder over at STEAM. In my eyes you're forgiven. Period. We all make mistakes. You have to remember too a lot of the 'flack' you were getting was from kids as well so they usually lash out 1st with the words of hate then when adults or rather those more 'mature' try to communicate with you it seems like the whole world is closing in around you. You apologized like a man, you're forgiven in my eyes.

Brasscatcher wrote: I'm with reaper. I've been touting how I'd never be able to touch Skyrim without Frostfall, having experienced the game with it. I'm still firmly against involving money with modding. I'm still firmly of the belief that if someone's reason for picking up the tools again was because someone waved cash at them it was for the wrong reasons, and they should prioritize the things in life that are profitable to them instead.


That said, I've also said that you being our first casualty of the attempt to monetize modding was a sad, sad thing. Good luck to you, buddy. I hope your life takes you to awesome places. IF I hear word you're deving a new game, I'll definitely check that out...and THAT would be something I'd pay for. :)

thestoryteller01 wrote: I'm afraid you won't be forgotten that easily.

But I mean that in a positive way. One of the benefits of modding, is that someone will always be remembered for the great work he or she did, not for something that has been said in a forum post.

empiric wrote: @popcorn:

He owes you nothing. If someone voluntarily contributes their time in making something of value to people, your attachment of your made-up expectations beyond that should elicit nothing but a curt dismissal. Getting something for free from someone else's time and work is a boon, demanding more is the perspective of a parasite.

popcorn71 wrote: Are you stupid or something? Go back and reread my posts and then think about them before you respond.

phantompally76 wrote: @empiric

When you drop a glass on the floor and it shatters into a hundred pieces, do you just walk off and leave it for someone else to clean up? Or do you take measures to sweep that glass up so no one gets hurt because of YOUR clumsiness?

Your personal answer to that question defines what kind of man you are. It also defines your level of hypocrisy.

Brasscatcher wrote: NICE metaphor, phantom. You turned that phrase like it had a knob.

I have a feeling we'll all be picking bits of this mess out of our heels for a while...and like the aftermath of a dropped glass, no matter how hard you sweep, you ALWAYS miss a few splinters that only become painfully apparent much later.

Hi Chesko,

I really respect you coming here to tell me that. I don't mean for this to sound patronising or condescending, but when you wrote that post on Reddit I knew you were hurting and were completely shell-shocked by the situation. While I was a bit miffed by the content, I couldn't bring myself to judge you poorly for it because I understood the circumstances that lead to it.

As I said in my response to your Reddit post, my Skype address is in one of the stickies in the private mod author forums. If you ever want to talk then you can add me any time.

[Rael]

I'm not worrying about Nexus's stance on this. You don't have to be a zealot one way or the other. Saying the mods you keep on your site will remain free is the sensible choice.

 

In short, Valve done f*#@ed up. Modding has never been about cash; not for any game I know of. The last couple of TES games are massive heavyweights in the modding community. I've never seen a LACK of monetization here. Putting up a donation button on your mod page is the polite thing to do and doesn't make anyone give money who doesn't want to. Likewise, mod authors could've made their stuff pay-to-play but didn't - because of logistical hurdles of getting it 'out there' and the knowledge that pay-out would be small. Enter Steam.

 

What Valve has done is tempt mod-makers with greed. Steam is massively popular and a guaranteed pay-out. No work needs to be put in - after all, you've already made your mod. Just put it on Steam and you'll receive free money! Community-driven turns into cash-driven. It's just another stepping stone. The last stepping stone was DLCs, now it's mods. And yes, I consider money to be TAINTED. It's going to f*#@ up this community simply through what kind of behaviour it encourages.

[PCGirl]

I started modding with Nexus, and have stuck by this site, and will continue to do so 100%. My mods have been, and will continue to be free for those of you that wish to use them.

 

One of the reasons I signed onto Nexus in the first place was because of the open forums, the posts, and all the hard work that everyone does everyday that we never know about. This is one of the best gaming communities I have ever been on, so keep up the great job!!!

 

Cheers,

[falcor23]

In response to post #24706964.

nekollx wrote:

I agree to disagree and the petition that will be hitting 130000 signatures shortly do as well. People will pay for mods, the VAST majority wont. Then you have the amount of backlash to your name as a paid modder being generated for what is essentially a pittance isn't helping any modders.

Also most people are not just looking at this as a Skyrim problem because its not. Look at Sins of a Solar Empire, the two largest mods are a Star Wars Mod and Star Trek Mod. Do those modders deserve money...yes. Can you LEGALLY pay them no its not their intellectual property.

Do you understand the problem, once you start monetizing what was a free service, everything goes under a microscope and walls start to be erected where before there was none. A great example is the Terra Armor mod, if that is uploaded to the Steam Workshop the mod creator AND steam could be sued, due to the fact it was not the intellectual property of the mod creator or Valve to host, but since its free nobody says anything. Yes that's a hypothetical situation but down the road it will happen, that I can assure you maybe not with that mod Or even a Skyrim mod. But if you open the flood gates to one game others will follow and the only people that are gonna get screwed is us gamers.

One things for sure me banging my head against the keyboard wont change your mind and you wont change mine. The only person that has say in any of this is Gabe in the end and he even once said "We think there is a fundamental misconception about piracy. Piracy is almost always a service problem and not a pricing problem" and that is what this is, a horrible service problem that was not implemented well at all.

[Orelov]

I'm just a common folk that hardly can understand about this kind of manners, but I'm happy to hear that the involved people decided to cooperate in this situation, and things went smoothly. Some others just get greedy and try to take money from everyone else (like that LOTR mod issue, when Warner Bros. decided to shut down the mod by claiming that it's violating copyright rules. Yeah right, even the publisher of the novel George Allen & Unwin didn't bother to sue). I gladly thank the mod authors that decided to remain creating wonders for games without any charge, because they made those mods out of mutual love. They love Skyrim as much as the common Skyrim players do (the context of the common in here is gamers that just play the game like myself, no offense. Sorry if you're offended), and they build up those mods because they think "This game is great! I think I'm going to make some mods for this and let's see if Skyrim can get beyond awesome".

And I also thank Valve, because they are willing to share some profit with Nexus, literally supporting in financial matter and helping this site to stand and serving all gamers that looking for mods of the enlisted games for free. One of those gamers is me

 

So yeah, as a gamer, and a member of Nexusmods, I deeply thank the mods, admins, Valve, and those who involved in this matter. It might sounds a little too overreact, but hey what if they decide to charge us for every mod? I'm just being grateful because when they have a chance to dig money, they didn't take it and instead just "let's give these mods away for free, I want to see people play their games with big smile".

Edited April 27, 2015 by Orelov