Steam Service Providers, and some how needing to clarify the Nexus stance again

[Harbringe]

Here's a thought . When this all started (modding) it was work , even for users , yes I know modders have additional work but even for users it was work , but as things got better , its gotten easier , so many things have improved since 14 years ago and with Skyrim it seemed to me that this whole modding thing was starting to hit its stride , not that its there but that for the first time it was becoming apparent that it was maturing beyond its infancy and I'm wondering is this about helping grow the modding community or killing it before it becomes too big . I mean if say this hadn't happened and it took FO4 and maybe ES 6 for it to reach maturity . Well as a gaming company what you would be faced with is an independant community that if someone came along and gave a game engine to could just be contracted out to build professional quality games that would be your competition. People mentioned about modding getting mentioned in Forbes magazine , I seen a video by a gaming magazine that did a review on what the state of Skyrim was 4 years after release and its conclusion was that because of modding the game could be as good , if not better than many of the next gen games currently being worked on.

 

If this isn't about helping the modding community , but about killing it before it matures , then what I imagine will happen is that FO4 will be a smokescreen announcement at E3 about all this helping out the modding community and will result in a 50/50 approach between paid and free mods and with the next ES game they will lock it down .

 

Seems appropriate it would be a FO game where the bomb is dropped on us , don't ya think.

[hangman04]

In response to post #24706469. #24706799 is also a reply to the same post.

nekollx wrote:

falcor23 wrote: Yes but many mods are being bought, copied uploaded to a torrent sites, (the pirated mod depo in /R/ is a great example look at how fast its growing 51st fasting growing subreddit) , then they are refunded and all the modder did was give it out free again.

This is the problem, the modder has very little control of their mods once its on the workshop. This is coming from someone who has put out hundreds in donations, I really just want modders to get what they deserve but not put people that cant afford 5 dollar mods out in the rain.

This is just a giant mess. A mess that was never necessary.

Torrenting doesn't really mean the user won't pay for the use of a mod eventually. Some won't indeed, but atm everything a mod author does is a freebie, so everything is relative to what your reference point is $0 or $1k. And regarding the cash flow.... oh well you don't have to consider it like a subscription that brings a steady income every month, but more like a one time gig that cashes out in time :). Edited April 27, 2015 by hangman04

[nekollx]

 

In response to post #24706964.

 

 

 

nekollx wrote:

I agree to disagree and the petition that will be hitting 130000 signatures shortly do as well. People will pay for mods, the VAST majority wont. Then you have the amount of backlash to your name as a paid modder being generated for what is essentially a pittance isn't helping any modders.

 

Also most people are not just looking at this as a Skyrim problem because its not. Look at Sins of a Solar Empire, the two largest mods are a Star Wars Mod and Star Trek Mod. Do those modders deserve money...yes. Can you LEGALLY pay them no its not their intellectual property.

 

Do you understand the problem, once you start monetizing what was a free service, everything goes under a microscope and walls start to be erected where before there was none. A great example is the Terra Armor mod, if that is uploaded to the Steam Workshop the mod creator AND steam could be sued, due to the fact it was not the intellectual property of the mod creator or Valve to host, but since its free nobody says anything. Yes that's a hypothetical situation but down the road it will happen, that I can assure you maybe not with that mod Or even a Skyrim mod. But if you open the flood gates to one game others will follow and the only people that are gonna get screwed is us gamers.

 

One things for sure me banging my head against the keyboard wont change your mind and you wont change mine. The only person that has say in any of this is Gabe in the end and he even once said "We think there is a fundamental misconception about piracy. Piracy is almost always a service problem and not a pricing problem" and that is what this is, a horrible service problem that was not implemented well at all.

 

 

um you might want to do some research, or word your post better, because as much as i am a supporter of Paid moding, and seeing moding grow into a viable revenue stream for content creators i do not have a single pay mod under my name, and in fact am collaborating with another content creator to curate voice actors for a Skyrim mod as i type this that alters over 17 hundred npcs, no small undertaking, and giving them unique voices to match their unique faces.

 

All without a single pay wall mind you.

[CptnBrryCrnch]

In response to post #24699154. #24699914, #24700424, #24700529, #24700669, #24700794, #24700844, #24700949, #24701494, #24701854, #24702124, #24702184, #24702309, #24702704, #24703104, #24703354, #24703374, #24704484, #24704939, #24705069, #24705264, #24707439 are all replies on the same post.

Chesko wrote:

popcorn71 wrote: So your just going to leave and pretend none of this ever happened? I feel bad for you. I really do. But the way I see things, you have a responsibility to help fix this mess that you are, how ever unwittingly, impart responsible for. I think you'll find that if you really try to make amends people will be surprisingly willing to forgive you and even rally around and defend you. This is a community after all.

Fowldragon wrote: OMFG...Even if you're his DADDY, you got no right to expect a thing from this man. The man tapped out...its time to release the hold.

anonownsyou wrote: I love you Chesko, I really don't get to say that enough. Hang in there, despite the way the wind may be blowing, you're among friends.

WightMage wrote: You're a good man for coming back to apologize to Robin, Chesko. Not many people would swallow their pride like that- not in this industry, and most certainly not on the internet.

I'm sure that all will be forgiven in time, from the rest of us modders, but you should enjoy your time away. Think of it more as an extended vacation than self exile. ;)

Best.

popcorn71 wrote: @ Fowldragon
Oh, yes I do have a right to expect him to fix his mistakes. And you do too.
He did an enormous amount of damage by not thinking his actions through. But that wasn't my point. As some one who has personal experienced how these things can turn out, Chesko is in a somewhat unique position to rally the community and actually make a difference. If he has even a shred of decency, he will work to ensure no one else goes through what he has.

sunshinenbrick wrote: I do not know you personally at all but as a community member, and it just puzzles me as to why you would go on about how you look so fondly on it as family member while you are being abused by the people you are going to be working for.

And there was me spending my weekend working on ways in which I may help this community fight for mod creator protection.

I hope you stand up for other modders so they do not get treated the way you have been.

Sorry to be so rude.

EDIT: I realise this is not Chesko's fault. It's just it really feels like their is a fight for our survival... or maybe relevance. I am not a social media buff but I have been glued to a chat room the past two days.

I can conceed that he is an older member who contributes a great deal more than I, but I really hope that Nexus stays a part of the picture and being some one of such influence maybe that can make a difference for us "little folk"

WightMage wrote: The abuse he's receiving does not preclude him from remembering the years of good that he experienced working here. And Chesko has been around awhile- longer than both of us, I imagine.

It's hard to let go when you have that kind of attachment.

popcorn71 wrote: Part of the reason he has been abused so badly is because he was so well respected. he was probably one for the last people I would have expected to go off and do something so collosaly stupid as what he did and he has payed dearly for it. You know the old saying: "the bigger they are, the harder they fall"? Well, case and point.

Believe me, I have an enormous amount of respect for Chesko. I took the time to dig through the scripts of Frostfall and figure out how it works. That mods a friken work of art. But just because I respect him doesn't mean I'm willing to give him a free pass.

WightMage wrote: No one is beyond reproach, but I believe Chesko can be forgiven in time. He's only human, after all.

Fowldragon wrote: @Popcorn

I get what you're saying...I mean really. But I am reading all of this and remembering reading Dark0ne's earlier blogs that he quoted. This might well have been something anticipated, but it was sprung in a moment...and likely as not it was purposeful in that respect...

Getting Dark' and Chesko to be at odds...getting veteran modders to speak of betrayal and question character...HELL that's just Icing on their Cake.

diyeath wrote: That's pretty mature of you to come here and say that. I'm sorry you ended up on the recieving end of so much abuse. I hope you don't take those crazies who were threatening you as the normal, they're the vocal minority.

I encourage you to come back to nexus, at this point everyone knows what happened and I think I can safely speak for most other mature members when I say I understand your position and not being used to that kind of flak. As far as I'm concerned its all water under the bridge.

In any case, regardless of what you decide I hope things are better for you now. Take care!

popcorn71 wrote: @ Fowldragon
Don't I know it. This whole thing stinks to high heaven. At this point you'd have to be out of your mind bat s#*! craze to put your mod up for sale on the workshop. And the worst part is some prominent moders are doing just that. Can any one say SkyUi?

UberSmaug wrote: Chesko as I see it you are the victim of bad advice. Whoever told you that if mod A needs mod B to work and mod A is paid for but mod B is free doesn't matter bears the most of the blame. Of course that matters. You got crucified for it unjustly. This was bound to happen to someone I'm sorry it was you. My heart goes out to you and I understand completely why you want to hide out for a bit. I hope you come back to us if and when you are ready. Cheers Mate.

Reaper0021 wrote: Chesko...your mods are ESSENTIAL for me to even begin to touch Skyrim. Period. That's what hurt me the most was seeing my favorite modder over at STEAM. In my eyes you're forgiven. Period. We all make mistakes. You have to remember too a lot of the 'flack' you were getting was from kids as well so they usually lash out 1st with the words of hate then when adults or rather those more 'mature' try to communicate with you it seems like the whole world is closing in around you. You apologized like a man, you're forgiven in my eyes.

Brasscatcher wrote: I'm with reaper. I've been touting how I'd never be able to touch Skyrim without Frostfall, having experienced the game with it. I'm still firmly against involving money with modding. I'm still firmly of the belief that if someone's reason for picking up the tools again was because someone waved cash at them it was for the wrong reasons, and they should prioritize the things in life that are profitable to them instead.


That said, I've also said that you being our first casualty of the attempt to monetize modding was a sad, sad thing. Good luck to you, buddy. I hope your life takes you to awesome places. IF I hear word you're deving a new game, I'll definitely check that out...and THAT would be something I'd pay for. :)

thestoryteller01 wrote: I'm afraid you won't be forgotten that easily.

But I mean that in a positive way. One of the benefits of modding, is that someone will always be remembered for the great work he or she did, not for something that has been said in a forum post.

empiric wrote: @popcorn:

He owes you nothing. If someone voluntarily contributes their time in making something of value to people, your attachment of your made-up expectations beyond that should elicit nothing but a curt dismissal. Getting something for free from someone else's time and work is a boon, demanding more is the perspective of a parasite.

popcorn71 wrote: Are you stupid or something? Go back and reread my posts and then think about them before you respond.

phantompally76 wrote: @empiric

When you drop a glass on the floor and it shatters into a hundred pieces, do you just walk off and leave it for someone else to clean up? Or do you take measures to sweep that glass up so no one gets hurt because of YOUR clumsiness?

Your personal answer to that question defines what kind of man you are. It also defines your level of hypocrisy.

Brasscatcher wrote: NICE metaphor, phantom. You turned that phrase like it had a knob.

I have a feeling we'll all be picking bits of this mess out of our heels for a while...and like the aftermath of a dropped glass, no matter how hard you sweep, you ALWAYS miss a few splinters that only become painfully apparent much later.

Dark0ne wrote: Hi Chesko,

I really respect you coming here to tell me that. I don't mean for this to sound patronising or condescending, but when you wrote that post on Reddit I knew you were hurting and were completely shell-shocked by the situation. While I was a bit miffed by the content, I couldn't bring myself to judge you poorly for it because I understood the circumstances that lead to it.

As I said in my response to your Reddit post, my Skype address is in one of the stickies in the private mod author forums. If you ever want to talk then you can add me any time.

I love your mods.

I really really really love your mods.

I will totally pay for your material when you are ready for it.

[PrometheusTS]

long read, but worth it as usual .

[Guest deleted10460550]

In response to post #24707514.

Rael wrote:

I have to agree I have seen with my family what money has done and I know that money will only buy unhappiness.

[darkfender666]

In response to post #24636819. #24637264, #24637439, #24637449, #24638189, #24638194, #24638204, #24638694, #24639029, #24639044 are all replies on the same post.

Dark0ne wrote:

Noortje wrote: My fear is the same. Companies will all hop on the bandwagon and companies will no longer allow free mods for their games. Modding will be forced into illegality.

Chrono180 wrote: I would like to express my gratitue towards you, Dark0ne, for being able to be a calm and collected head when everything goes into chaos. Regardless of the pros and cons of the concept of paid for mods, it is good to know that you are able to keep yourself collected and help discuss things in a calm and rational matter.

I am sorry about your missing your trip, by the way.

gunslinger6792 wrote: Never doubted you or the nexus. Thanks for the info now please for the love of God get some sleep.

icecreamassassin wrote: I think that modding is such a vital aspect that for Bethesda/Valve to declare them universally pay only after they have deeply rooted themselves as such a community shared concept, would be PR suicide. They would see a wide spread fallout (no pun intended) against their company and the sales of their next product release would PLUMMET so badly. I'm certain that they must be aware of this and would never do something so bold

and good job quoting robin's entire main post lol ;)

jad31te wrote: " And frankly, I think you are insulting the mod authors who have decided to remain free by saying free modding is over. If you believe strongly in this, stick by them, show them your support, endorse their files if you like them, donate to them. That's what this community needs, not a swirling cesspit of vitriolic hatred. " end quote~

Exactly!! This is what I have actually been putting my efforts twords all night, and will continue to do so, without the mods.. skyrim would be frankly boring at this point. I have invested 707 hours into this game not counting the hours I poured into my PS3..

This whole ordeal the last few days has really had me rethinking somethings, It is so easy to get caught up in this whole thing and b&@*$.. but in reality before today I had never once even considered hitting that donation button. Not that I was objected to it, I just never really thought about it untill this happened.

And there are so many people who really deserve that support from us, I for one will not be Buying steam mods, but instead will be supporting those same people here as I can, where I know they will be getting every cent I give to them.

I want to thank you all so much for giving me so many hours of great gameplay and a great community.

TKHBMVP wrote: Thank you for this information Dark0ne, I much appreciate your open and clear statement and arguments.
I'm not a modder, even I'm running three sites with content from gaming experiences and my own translations I'ld like to share for free to the community.

For me you mentioned three major points to me:
1. Getting paid for a mod, people expecting support for the mod from the modder. I'm not sure if this will be clear to all modder using the paid version of publishing their work.
2. It should be fine if a modder select a service provider to benefit for the platform the modder already benefit in the past. And a platform which shares the revenues with the users to improve the platform is a good choice of donation in my point of view.
3. Finally it is up to the modder what will be used as a platform to distribute the work. At this point, I remember your point, to implement a feature to point out to people during the download process about the donation option. And saying this, I recognized a lot of modders which mods I'm using (currently 305 active mods for Skyrim) that they actively disabled this option on their mod page.... !

Hopefully everybody calm down and we can keep on enjoying all of the mostly great work which has been published here.

Just my 2 cents.

Nostalgiaheart wrote: A simple; I agree with you on the most part and I THANK YOU for letting us know how you feel about all of this.
From a 68yr old gamer that has seen most of it and I do understand, even if the bull heads don't.

Live Long and ENJOY :)

crisisninja wrote: Long live The Nexus!

aquacrow wrote: I understand that some modders, especially ones who have invested a lot of time and commitment to their great mod may want compensation for their efforts. And many of them deserve it too, for enhancing the gaming experience for the countless many users of the game. What I really hate about this paid mod thing at the moment is that the modders get only 25% while Velve and Bethesda take the lion's share of 75%.
What this means is that if the modders feels they deserves to be paid...lets say $5 for their mod, then the actual price-tag has to be $20 for them to receive the $5. (As where on the other hand if the modder was getting a 50% cut, the price would be $10 and if they were getting 100% the price would be $5) So the higher the cut Velve and Bethesda take, the higher the price of the mod shall have to be, and the thought that this extra $15 that is paid for a $5 mod will go to Velve and Bethesda, who myself and most users are currently hating for this turnabout is hard to swallow.
Though many people may agree that the modders deserve respect and compensation for their mods, hardly anyone believes Velve and Bethesda deserve that extra cash, and do not want to give anything to those companies that seek to capitalize on the efforts of others. Paying for mods benefits the modders, but it benefits Velve and Bethesda even more. There is currently a great hate for the two companies for wanting to capitalize on what used to be a free communtity, and the idea of giving some of the modders their deserved pay is greatly outweighted by the idea of actually paying 75% to the ones we have come to loathe.

I see someday a company will offer to modders a service with a higher sharing (like 90%).
At that point you will see steam/bethesda locking mods outside steam itself.

[PrometheusTS]

In response to post #24699154. #24699914, #24700424, #24700529, #24700669, #24700794, #24700844, #24700949, #24701494, #24701854, #24702124, #24702184, #24702309, #24702704, #24703104, #24703354, #24703374, #24704484, #24704939, #24705069, #24705264, #24707439, #24708649 are all replies on the same post.

Chesko wrote:

popcorn71 wrote: So your just going to leave and pretend none of this ever happened? I feel bad for you. I really do. But the way I see things, you have a responsibility to help fix this mess that you are, how ever unwittingly, impart responsible for. I think you'll find that if you really try to make amends people will be surprisingly willing to forgive you and even rally around and defend you. This is a community after all.

Fowldragon wrote: OMFG...Even if you're his DADDY, you got no right to expect a thing from this man. The man tapped out...its time to release the hold.

anonownsyou wrote: I love you Chesko, I really don't get to say that enough. Hang in there, despite the way the wind may be blowing, you're among friends.

WightMage wrote: You're a good man for coming back to apologize to Robin, Chesko. Not many people would swallow their pride like that- not in this industry, and most certainly not on the internet.

I'm sure that all will be forgiven in time, from the rest of us modders, but you should enjoy your time away. Think of it more as an extended vacation than self exile. ;)

Best.

popcorn71 wrote: @ Fowldragon
Oh, yes I do have a right to expect him to fix his mistakes. And you do too.
He did an enormous amount of damage by not thinking his actions through. But that wasn't my point. As some one who has personal experienced how these things can turn out, Chesko is in a somewhat unique position to rally the community and actually make a difference. If he has even a shred of decency, he will work to ensure no one else goes through what he has.

sunshinenbrick wrote: I do not know you personally at all but as a community member, and it just puzzles me as to why you would go on about how you look so fondly on it as family member while you are being abused by the people you are going to be working for.

And there was me spending my weekend working on ways in which I may help this community fight for mod creator protection.

I hope you stand up for other modders so they do not get treated the way you have been.

Sorry to be so rude.

EDIT: I realise this is not Chesko's fault. It's just it really feels like their is a fight for our survival... or maybe relevance. I am not a social media buff but I have been glued to a chat room the past two days.

I can conceed that he is an older member who contributes a great deal more than I, but I really hope that Nexus stays a part of the picture and being some one of such influence maybe that can make a difference for us "little folk"

WightMage wrote: The abuse he's receiving does not preclude him from remembering the years of good that he experienced working here. And Chesko has been around awhile- longer than both of us, I imagine.

It's hard to let go when you have that kind of attachment.

popcorn71 wrote: Part of the reason he has been abused so badly is because he was so well respected. he was probably one for the last people I would have expected to go off and do something so collosaly stupid as what he did and he has payed dearly for it. You know the old saying: "the bigger they are, the harder they fall"? Well, case and point.

Believe me, I have an enormous amount of respect for Chesko. I took the time to dig through the scripts of Frostfall and figure out how it works. That mods a friken work of art. But just because I respect him doesn't mean I'm willing to give him a free pass.

WightMage wrote: No one is beyond reproach, but I believe Chesko can be forgiven in time. He's only human, after all.

Fowldragon wrote: @Popcorn

I get what you're saying...I mean really. But I am reading all of this and remembering reading Dark0ne's earlier blogs that he quoted. This might well have been something anticipated, but it was sprung in a moment...and likely as not it was purposeful in that respect...

Getting Dark' and Chesko to be at odds...getting veteran modders to speak of betrayal and question character...HELL that's just Icing on their Cake.

diyeath wrote: That's pretty mature of you to come here and say that. I'm sorry you ended up on the recieving end of so much abuse. I hope you don't take those crazies who were threatening you as the normal, they're the vocal minority.

I encourage you to come back to nexus, at this point everyone knows what happened and I think I can safely speak for most other mature members when I say I understand your position and not being used to that kind of flak. As far as I'm concerned its all water under the bridge.

In any case, regardless of what you decide I hope things are better for you now. Take care!

popcorn71 wrote: @ Fowldragon
Don't I know it. This whole thing stinks to high heaven. At this point you'd have to be out of your mind bat s#*! craze to put your mod up for sale on the workshop. And the worst part is some prominent moders are doing just that. Can any one say SkyUi?

UberSmaug wrote: Chesko as I see it you are the victim of bad advice. Whoever told you that if mod A needs mod B to work and mod A is paid for but mod B is free doesn't matter bears the most of the blame. Of course that matters. You got crucified for it unjustly. This was bound to happen to someone I'm sorry it was you. My heart goes out to you and I understand completely why you want to hide out for a bit. I hope you come back to us if and when you are ready. Cheers Mate.

Reaper0021 wrote: Chesko...your mods are ESSENTIAL for me to even begin to touch Skyrim. Period. That's what hurt me the most was seeing my favorite modder over at STEAM. In my eyes you're forgiven. Period. We all make mistakes. You have to remember too a lot of the 'flack' you were getting was from kids as well so they usually lash out 1st with the words of hate then when adults or rather those more 'mature' try to communicate with you it seems like the whole world is closing in around you. You apologized like a man, you're forgiven in my eyes.

Brasscatcher wrote: I'm with reaper. I've been touting how I'd never be able to touch Skyrim without Frostfall, having experienced the game with it. I'm still firmly against involving money with modding. I'm still firmly of the belief that if someone's reason for picking up the tools again was because someone waved cash at them it was for the wrong reasons, and they should prioritize the things in life that are profitable to them instead.


That said, I've also said that you being our first casualty of the attempt to monetize modding was a sad, sad thing. Good luck to you, buddy. I hope your life takes you to awesome places. IF I hear word you're deving a new game, I'll definitely check that out...and THAT would be something I'd pay for. :)

thestoryteller01 wrote: I'm afraid you won't be forgotten that easily.

But I mean that in a positive way. One of the benefits of modding, is that someone will always be remembered for the great work he or she did, not for something that has been said in a forum post.

empiric wrote: @popcorn:

He owes you nothing. If someone voluntarily contributes their time in making something of value to people, your attachment of your made-up expectations beyond that should elicit nothing but a curt dismissal. Getting something for free from someone else's time and work is a boon, demanding more is the perspective of a parasite.

popcorn71 wrote: Are you stupid or something? Go back and reread my posts and then think about them before you respond.

phantompally76 wrote: @empiric

When you drop a glass on the floor and it shatters into a hundred pieces, do you just walk off and leave it for someone else to clean up? Or do you take measures to sweep that glass up so no one gets hurt because of YOUR clumsiness?

Your personal answer to that question defines what kind of man you are. It also defines your level of hypocrisy.

Brasscatcher wrote: NICE metaphor, phantom. You turned that phrase like it had a knob.

I have a feeling we'll all be picking bits of this mess out of our heels for a while...and like the aftermath of a dropped glass, no matter how hard you sweep, you ALWAYS miss a few splinters that only become painfully apparent much later.

Dark0ne wrote: Hi Chesko,

I really respect you coming here to tell me that. I don't mean for this to sound patronising or condescending, but when you wrote that post on Reddit I knew you were hurting and were completely shell-shocked by the situation. While I was a bit miffed by the content, I couldn't bring myself to judge you poorly for it because I understood the circumstances that lead to it.

As I said in my response to your Reddit post, my Skype address is in one of the stickies in the private mod author forums. If you ever want to talk then you can add me any time.

CptnBrryCrnch wrote: I love your mods.

I really really really love your mods.

I will totally pay for your material when you are ready for it.

There is nothing to amend for , He was just involved in a shitstorm he didn't deserve .
Personally I see nothing wrong with eventually the decision to ask for a monetization for the hard work done by some people .
And I would like to underline that Chesko works as well as the one of some very few selected others, stand above the average random mod and most often required "paid" tools and content that ends up in the making of those professional level free mods.
So a small monetary incentive is not really for greed and with a 25% is not really goingto make anyone a living , but might end up eventually paying certain expenses in some cases .
Despite it incentivates only minor small mods and not large and DLC sized ones . Edited April 27, 2015 by PROMETHEUS_ts

[riverreveal]

In response to post #24699154. #24699914, #24700424, #24700529, #24700669, #24700794, #24700844, #24700949, #24701494, #24701854, #24702124, #24702184, #24702309, #24702704, #24703104, #24703354, #24703374, #24704484, #24704939, #24705069, #24705264, #24707439, #24708649, #24709434 are all replies on the same post.

Chesko wrote:

popcorn71 wrote: So your just going to leave and pretend none of this ever happened? I feel bad for you. I really do. But the way I see things, you have a responsibility to help fix this mess that you are, how ever unwittingly, impart responsible for. I think you'll find that if you really try to make amends people will be surprisingly willing to forgive you and even rally around and defend you. This is a community after all.

Fowldragon wrote: OMFG...Even if you're his DADDY, you got no right to expect a thing from this man. The man tapped out...its time to release the hold.

anonownsyou wrote: I love you Chesko, I really don't get to say that enough. Hang in there, despite the way the wind may be blowing, you're among friends.

WightMage wrote: You're a good man for coming back to apologize to Robin, Chesko. Not many people would swallow their pride like that- not in this industry, and most certainly not on the internet.

I'm sure that all will be forgiven in time, from the rest of us modders, but you should enjoy your time away. Think of it more as an extended vacation than self exile. ;)

Best.

popcorn71 wrote: @ Fowldragon
Oh, yes I do have a right to expect him to fix his mistakes. And you do too.
He did an enormous amount of damage by not thinking his actions through. But that wasn't my point. As some one who has personal experienced how these things can turn out, Chesko is in a somewhat unique position to rally the community and actually make a difference. If he has even a shred of decency, he will work to ensure no one else goes through what he has.

sunshinenbrick wrote: I do not know you personally at all but as a community member, and it just puzzles me as to why you would go on about how you look so fondly on it as family member while you are being abused by the people you are going to be working for.

And there was me spending my weekend working on ways in which I may help this community fight for mod creator protection.

I hope you stand up for other modders so they do not get treated the way you have been.

Sorry to be so rude.

EDIT: I realise this is not Chesko's fault. It's just it really feels like their is a fight for our survival... or maybe relevance. I am not a social media buff but I have been glued to a chat room the past two days.

I can conceed that he is an older member who contributes a great deal more than I, but I really hope that Nexus stays a part of the picture and being some one of such influence maybe that can make a difference for us "little folk"

WightMage wrote: The abuse he's receiving does not preclude him from remembering the years of good that he experienced working here. And Chesko has been around awhile- longer than both of us, I imagine.

It's hard to let go when you have that kind of attachment.

popcorn71 wrote: Part of the reason he has been abused so badly is because he was so well respected. he was probably one for the last people I would have expected to go off and do something so collosaly stupid as what he did and he has payed dearly for it. You know the old saying: "the bigger they are, the harder they fall"? Well, case and point.

Believe me, I have an enormous amount of respect for Chesko. I took the time to dig through the scripts of Frostfall and figure out how it works. That mods a friken work of art. But just because I respect him doesn't mean I'm willing to give him a free pass.

WightMage wrote: No one is beyond reproach, but I believe Chesko can be forgiven in time. He's only human, after all.

Fowldragon wrote: @Popcorn

I get what you're saying...I mean really. But I am reading all of this and remembering reading Dark0ne's earlier blogs that he quoted. This might well have been something anticipated, but it was sprung in a moment...and likely as not it was purposeful in that respect...

Getting Dark' and Chesko to be at odds...getting veteran modders to speak of betrayal and question character...HELL that's just Icing on their Cake.

diyeath wrote: That's pretty mature of you to come here and say that. I'm sorry you ended up on the recieving end of so much abuse. I hope you don't take those crazies who were threatening you as the normal, they're the vocal minority.

I encourage you to come back to nexus, at this point everyone knows what happened and I think I can safely speak for most other mature members when I say I understand your position and not being used to that kind of flak. As far as I'm concerned its all water under the bridge.

In any case, regardless of what you decide I hope things are better for you now. Take care!

popcorn71 wrote: @ Fowldragon
Don't I know it. This whole thing stinks to high heaven. At this point you'd have to be out of your mind bat s#*! craze to put your mod up for sale on the workshop. And the worst part is some prominent moders are doing just that. Can any one say SkyUi?

UberSmaug wrote: Chesko as I see it you are the victim of bad advice. Whoever told you that if mod A needs mod B to work and mod A is paid for but mod B is free doesn't matter bears the most of the blame. Of course that matters. You got crucified for it unjustly. This was bound to happen to someone I'm sorry it was you. My heart goes out to you and I understand completely why you want to hide out for a bit. I hope you come back to us if and when you are ready. Cheers Mate.

Reaper0021 wrote: Chesko...your mods are ESSENTIAL for me to even begin to touch Skyrim. Period. That's what hurt me the most was seeing my favorite modder over at STEAM. In my eyes you're forgiven. Period. We all make mistakes. You have to remember too a lot of the 'flack' you were getting was from kids as well so they usually lash out 1st with the words of hate then when adults or rather those more 'mature' try to communicate with you it seems like the whole world is closing in around you. You apologized like a man, you're forgiven in my eyes.

Brasscatcher wrote: I'm with reaper. I've been touting how I'd never be able to touch Skyrim without Frostfall, having experienced the game with it. I'm still firmly against involving money with modding. I'm still firmly of the belief that if someone's reason for picking up the tools again was because someone waved cash at them it was for the wrong reasons, and they should prioritize the things in life that are profitable to them instead.


That said, I've also said that you being our first casualty of the attempt to monetize modding was a sad, sad thing. Good luck to you, buddy. I hope your life takes you to awesome places. IF I hear word you're deving a new game, I'll definitely check that out...and THAT would be something I'd pay for. :)

thestoryteller01 wrote: I'm afraid you won't be forgotten that easily.

But I mean that in a positive way. One of the benefits of modding, is that someone will always be remembered for the great work he or she did, not for something that has been said in a forum post.

empiric wrote: @popcorn:

He owes you nothing. If someone voluntarily contributes their time in making something of value to people, your attachment of your made-up expectations beyond that should elicit nothing but a curt dismissal. Getting something for free from someone else's time and work is a boon, demanding more is the perspective of a parasite.

popcorn71 wrote: Are you stupid or something? Go back and reread my posts and then think about them before you respond.

phantompally76 wrote: @empiric

When you drop a glass on the floor and it shatters into a hundred pieces, do you just walk off and leave it for someone else to clean up? Or do you take measures to sweep that glass up so no one gets hurt because of YOUR clumsiness?

Your personal answer to that question defines what kind of man you are. It also defines your level of hypocrisy.

Brasscatcher wrote: NICE metaphor, phantom. You turned that phrase like it had a knob.

I have a feeling we'll all be picking bits of this mess out of our heels for a while...and like the aftermath of a dropped glass, no matter how hard you sweep, you ALWAYS miss a few splinters that only become painfully apparent much later.

Dark0ne wrote: Hi Chesko,

I really respect you coming here to tell me that. I don't mean for this to sound patronising or condescending, but when you wrote that post on Reddit I knew you were hurting and were completely shell-shocked by the situation. While I was a bit miffed by the content, I couldn't bring myself to judge you poorly for it because I understood the circumstances that lead to it.

As I said in my response to your Reddit post, my Skype address is in one of the stickies in the private mod author forums. If you ever want to talk then you can add me any time.

CptnBrryCrnch wrote: I love your mods.

I really really really love your mods.

I will totally pay for your material when you are ready for it.

PROMETHEUS_ts wrote: There is nothing to amend for , He was just involved in a shitstorm he didn't deserve .
Personally I see nothing wrong with eventually the decision to ask for a monetization for the hard work done by some people .
And I would like to underline that Chesko works as well as the one of some very few selected others, stand above the average random mod and most often required "paid" tools and content that ends up in the making of those professional level free mods.
So a small monetary incentive is not really for greed and with a 25% is not really goingto make anyone a living , but might end up eventually paying certain expenses in some cases .
Despite it incentivates only minor small mods and not large and DLC sized ones .

Chesko, right now you might feel like there are a lot of people against you, but in time people will look at you as being the first person to take on Valve and Bethesda and their ill-thought out policy changes.

Sure things could have been handled better, but thats life, you are trying to do the right thing now and that makes you a good person.

Dont give up modding, you are way too good to not be around.

[Tigon3rd]

In response to post #24705719. #24705874 is also a reply to the same post.

hangman04 wrote:

hangman04 wrote: PS: now what i would expect from Beth is that they will provide improved CK and maybe other tools to make things really interesting !

Yeah, when you look at how much Bethesda is getting from the 75% (Robin wrote 40%), then I expect the next game to come with a team dedicated to the modding tools and all that s#*!.