Steam and Bethesda remove paid modding from Skyrim Workshop

[Deleted15940644User]

"I know many people will disagree with me, but I can't help but feel sorry for Bethesda."

 

I kind of do as well. It had well placed intentions. But the execution was horrifying.

 

I hope you will still try out that donation box thing stated on your last post.

[Brasscatcher]

In response to post #24736589. #24736754, #24737024 are all replies on the same post.

Vesuvius1745 wrote:

Brasscatcher wrote: Agreed. I posted somewhere back in one of the other topics that I disagree with forcing mods behind a paywall. User funding for this hobby should always be voluntary. BUT. Bethesda (under Zenimax pressure, I'm sure) has released games in terrible condition for a AAA title. If anyone should be profit-sharing with crews like SKSE, SkyUI, Unofficial Patches, it should be Bethesda. Sure is nice having a devoted and skilled-enough fanbase to make your game run for you.

I decided with Skyrim to not preorder the next Bethesda game for this very reason. There's no point, if the friggin thing isn't going to work out of the box.

WightMage wrote: You mean aside from the fact that, in a year or two, they'll be selling the "Legendary Gold Assault Armageddon Omega Supreme Edition" with over $200 worth of DLC clothing, weapon, and texture packs in a bundle for 80% off?

Oh Wight. You so crazy!

...Except it could happen. :D

[jfisha]

In response to post #24736859.

tiberseptm wrote:

I've donated almost 100 dollars the past three days to different mod authors. However, I did not give anything to SkyUI because they were planning on putting a paywall behind their new update and not giving them money was my silent protest.

I don't hold grudges. The ball's in their court Edited April 28, 2015 by jfisha

[FillipeMattos]

In response to post #24736829.

DarkSyryus wrote:

Yes! New holiday! Fight for freedom modder! Edited April 28, 2015 by FillipeMattos

[Thoragoros]

Instead of Bethesda looking at the modding community and saying "Oh wow, people are still playing our single player game almost 4 years on due to mods? What great PR!"

 

They said "Huh...maybe we can squeeze a few more dimes out of them."

 

Yes, companies need to make money, but just because something makes money does not necessarily mean its good for business. Paid mods is one such instance where making money is not necessarily 'good for business.'

Edited April 28, 2015 by Thoragoros

[phantompally76]

In response to post #24733199. #24733474, #24733594, #24733919, #24733969, #24734114, #24734584, #24734984, #24735109, #24735199, #24735449, #24735464, #24735474, #24735764, #24735829, #24736169, #24736484, #24736504, #24736694, #24736739 are all replies on the same post.

Elta1 wrote:

sa547 wrote: All the damage could've been averted if the powers-that-be asked for a public consultation in the first place.

Saije wrote: Stop trying to ride the white horse here.

Modders turncoated on the community with hilarious haste.

Users responded in the way that an individual betrayed will always respond.

And now that the dust is settled and the greedy have shown their true colors.

(The fact that they don't give flying f*#@ about the community, just money.)

Now that the paid modding has been vanquished and said greedy individuals have no

recourse except to accept that they were completely happy in their betrayel.

You try to paste the blame on the ones betrayed rather then the ones betraying...

Ridiculous.


I hope if one lesson has been learned from all this it is this...

People will betray each other in a heartbeat when money is involved.


The only modders who deserve any sympathy are the ones that were attacked by the

greedy capitalist pushing pissants for not standing at the side of their fellow turncoats.

Sorry if I get banned for this comment... But it needed to be said.

focusv5 wrote: In a world where everyone has a voice (the internet), you're going to get all kinds of extremes in terms of opinions, and it clearly showed over the past few days. The blame cannot be placed solely on the users as if they were all issuing death threats and spewing absolute hatred. There were of course many users that were constructive and not issuing death threats by explaining that this system could have worked if it was implemented better. Don't let the sour few spoil your opinion of the masses. I wouldn't hop on the 'pity bethesda/valve' train as a result of hearing death threats as these sorts of statements are not uncommon in nearly all avenues of life. You make absolute statements like 'the users' as if they represented everyone, there were many who were calmly involved in the discussion as well.

JCDNWarrior wrote: Change is not neccesarily good. We're talking about a hobby that many of us have put thousands of hours into. I don't think the modding community should be seen as villains in this. Especially if people wish to ascribe good intentions to Valve and Bethesda (Two companies that would probably not even exist anymore or be very small without their modding communities).

AAA gaming has been going downwards for years and modding is what keeps the spirit of gaming alive for millions of people. Messing with that by introducing money and consequentially greed, on top of a very easily abused system of Steam Workshop and more and more information uncovered about how this was planned long in advance, and there's no way that the modding and gaming communities wouldn't raise absolute hell over this.

I just truly hope that all parties learn from this. However, with monetary interests involved, I think everyone should be vigiliant that this could happen all over again, just better repacked in PR-speak than Gabe Newell's meltdown AMA.

daedriccat wrote: Lets stop calling those who wanted to keep to the TES tradition of sharing free mods as being afraid of change. That is short sighted and ignorant and the typical cry of those who wanted to profit from modding.

SirTopas wrote: Oh, horsecrap, Saije. If modding does come to an end, it will be folks like you with your pitchforks, torches, tar and feathers who end it with your demands for "ideological purity". You and your ilk have already driven Chesko, the author of Frostfall and other outstanding mods, out of the community completely. On the other hand, you, I note, have never published a mod. Again I ask, who is more greedy? The modders who have put thousands of hours and real money into modding or people like you who demand that the results of that work be provided to you for free?

Hamthaak wrote: SirTopas: You just received a kudo for this.
Saije: no offense, mate. but this kind of attitude is just what i got tired of in the last days. Who betrayed you? Who owes you (and me, and anyone else here) anything? We should be thankfull to anyone who creates mods we can use for free. THEY are the basis of this "community".

TehKaoZ wrote: ^This

phantompally76 wrote: SirTopas, what about the thousands of hours mod USERS have logged playtesting mods, providing quality control, reporting bugs and glitches, providing feedback and suggestions to mod authors? Hmmm????

Not having ever created a mod does not invalidate one's opinion or stance on the matter. Without mod users, there would be no mod authors. Don't you ever forget that.

SirTopas wrote: phantompally76, not having produced a mod absolutely does have a bearing when people are making demands about what modders may or may not do with the product of their own work.

Aavok wrote: I get what you're saying but...
A bit over-dramatic don't you think?

Azulyn wrote: Pretty sure the death threats thing is being blown out of proportion by all the white knights and butthurt. I mean, c'mon folks. You are on the internet. I'm sure you've all visited the cesspool that is 4chan. I'm sure most of the turds issuing death threats were just trolls anyway.

MysticalFlare wrote: @phantom, you don't need mod users to be a mod author. More often than not, I make mods exclusively for myself. I don't know where you got the idea that you have any authority over the author, but that sense of entitlement is pretty ridiculous.

bjornvaldr wrote: Not sure I agree with you and not sure you got the point of it all. The only people who should be demonized here are the ones who went around spamming middle finger ASCII art or harassing mod authors. Reactions such as protest banners and hiding mods were justified. Since when is protesting against something you feel is wrong childish? Don't lump everyone into the same category just because people share the same distaste for paid modding. The Workshop has been known - and is still known - for people stealing mods. People who hid or pulled their mods, while their reactions may have been a little early to do so, were justified. They didn't want people stealing their hard work and selling it. The people who pulled their mods with the idea of exclusively selling them, however, that's a different story. I won't get into that one though. You can't blame people for feeling betrayed. Sure, some people went about expressing this in stupid ways, but not everyone went around spamming and harassing. And no. No one banished anyone. The only mod authors who left were ones who didn't have the foresight to see what they were doing was going to cause a backlash. I hope they come back, but if they don't, I'm not going to beg them to do so. Yeah, it sucks they got harassed, but that happens on the Internet. I wish it didn't, but people need to thicken their skin.

asanesslights wrote: Now you're trying avert towards the users, which in fact only expressed their feelings because of sudden change. Now the gamergate journalists will make an article off this one.

LeianneG wrote: @phantompally76

"SirTopas, what about the thousands of hours mod USERS have logged playtesting mods, providing quality control, reporting bugs and glitches, providing feedback and suggestions to mod authors? Hmmm????

Not having ever created a mod does not invalidate one's opinion or stance on the matter. Without mod users, there would be no mod authors. Don't you ever forget that. "

********************** ADDRESSING THE ABOVE STATEMENT ******************

USERS who have donated their time, work and talents improving a mod -
are no longer JUST USERS ... they are ALSO contributing Mod Authors!

Sorry, but I would still be a mod author WITHOUT mod users .. as I make my mods FOR ME FIRST - and then, if I feel you or someone else might enjoy it - I choose to SHARE.

Tar wrote: Remember that this is what normally happen when change and new rules get pulled down on peoples head without any warning. This was neither the mod makers fault or the users fault, they felt they was cheated, this was all done by Valve and Bethesda for not doing what should have been done when change is on the agenda.

Anyway, some users overstepped and their actions should not be tolerated. But lets look forward and try an unite the community again, lets get this farce created by valve and Bethesda out of our system.

jfisha wrote: I understand exactly what you're talking about, Leianne, but my response would be the same to you as it was when I read a contributor to SkyUI say he didn't feel there was a community on Nexus....

"The almost 300 thousand people who endorsed your mod would disagree."

sunshinenbrick wrote: Communities should always contain a wide variety of people. I have come to realise just how varied opinions are on in this community and the number of times I have thought "s#*! that's a insanely good point".

I think it is the sense of community that was what caused such a strong reaction from everyone here. I think what Bethesda (perhaps Valve) and everyone here found out through this is how intricate and precious this wide variety of people and how they interact is.

You cannot package it in a box and sell it for the lowest price. We should be proud of that and I hope Bethesda and everyone here appreciates the value of it.

@LeianneG, I strongly and emphatically disagree.

Without anyone to play your mods, you're just editing files for your own personal use.

Of course I definitely understand it's a two-way relationship. All I'm saying is don't try to guilt users (and several other mod authors) for expressing displeasure with mod authors who rallied behind this scam, and don't expect us to just forgive and forget. I don't hate these people. I respect their talents and their creativity, and yes, I respect their time. But I'm not obligated to pay for it. And they're not obligated to create it.

Things were working just fine before this scam. Except for the mod authors who got greedy and spent more time playing with the Creation Kit than with providing for their families, we had a symbiotic relationship. That relationship has been strained. Things won't ever be the same.

[Vesuvius1745]

Don't blame the users for reacting the way anyone who feels they have been betrayed would react. I don't agree with the insults, but these modders certainly deserved some of the backlash they received (and they acknowledged they were expecting it. With some of those modders they really showed their true colors through all of this, and if they disappear from the nexus forever I don't necessarily think that is a bad thing.

 

I used to mod for Morrowind and other games. It's always been just a labor of love, and I assume that is the case for most modders. Modding can be a stepping stone to acquire the skills to get you a job in the industry, and if you really want to make money off your work, then you should try and get a job with a gaming company; but trying to squeeze pennies out of a game that would have been dead years ago without the modding community is, was, and always will be a bad idea. This is especially true with games like Skryrim where the vanilla version is almost unplayable--it really is a bug-riddled piece of unstable crap. The mods are what saved the game. Mods are what keeps it alive. Bethesda already made a fortune off this game, and because of the modding community, they continue to sell copies 4 years after its release. Wanting to squeeze even more money out of people was just wrong, and why there was such a backlash, and frankly, those modders who were so quick to jump ship should have known better.

[protttt]

In response to post #24736589. #24736754, #24737024, #24737159 are all replies on the same post.

Vesuvius1745 wrote:

Brasscatcher wrote: Agreed. I posted somewhere back in one of the other topics that I disagree with forcing mods behind a paywall. User funding for this hobby should always be voluntary. BUT. Bethesda (under Zenimax pressure, I'm sure) has released games in terrible condition for a AAA title. If anyone should be profit-sharing with crews like SKSE, SkyUI, Unofficial Patches, it should be Bethesda. Sure is nice having a devoted and skilled-enough fanbase to make your game run for you.

I decided with Skyrim to not preorder the next Bethesda game for this very reason. There's no point, if the friggin thing isn't going to work out of the box.

WightMage wrote: You mean aside from the fact that, in a year or two, they'll be selling the "Legendary Gold Assault Armageddon Omega Supreme Edition" with over $200 worth of DLC clothing, weapon, and texture packs in a bundle for 80% off?

Brasscatcher wrote: Oh Wight. You so crazy!

...Except it could happen. :D

Totally agreed. In fact the reason why people are still playing Skyrim today is because of the mods, and the mods alone. Trust me I tried playing Skyrim without mods and I couldn't stand 15 minutes! It might be the best game in 2011 but just a no-more-than-s#*! in 2015 comparing to other RPG games in NO MODs type (Dragon Age Inquisitions is a good example).

[rickerhk]

In response to post #24732344. #24732604, #24732704, #24732709, #24732774, #24732869, #24732879, #24733044, #24733464, #24733739, #24733824, #24733844, #24734224, #24734679, #24734879, #24734924, #24735019, #24735179, #24735629, #24736304, #24736494, #24736934, #24737124 are all replies on the same post.

CelticPaladin wrote:

calfurius wrote: I know quite a few modders became disgusted with the way some members of the modding community treated them. I'm mostly concerned if Chesko is coming back or not, he didn't deserve anywhere near the level of hate that he got.

phantompally76 wrote: I hope that's not the case.

I do, however, hope that in future they think twice about arrogantly condescending mod users looking for assistance with their mods in comments sections, like they have in the past. I'd stopped using some of their mods before this crap ever started because of that.

Riprock wrote: Hopefully time will make him realize that words on the internet are just words. We put way too much stock in typed messages.

CelticPaladin wrote: The number of vitriol and death threats were insane. I couldn't blame them for leaving this community behind. It'd be depressing, but there you go.

meredithmiles wrote: What I don't understand is why Arthmoor, Chesko and Isoku don't already have job offers in hand. Seriously, they are all three hardworking, dedicated and skilled. If I ran a game company I'd have snatched them up ages ago.

This is a great time to donate to them, I think.

jfisha wrote: Each team only lost a handful of endorsements. Yes, there was some angry vitriol, but most people respectfully disagreed with what they did. No more, no less.

BarnabasCollins wrote: I don't even see why people were targeting the modders anyway. For me this was never even about the modders, but the future of modding itself. The modders are innocent.

oblivion104 wrote: I stayed away from the melodrama and only sign the petition,but what happened to chesko??

Also, what happened to the paid mods? Did they take it down?

phantompally76 wrote: heh, apt user name there.

Wait, there are mods for Skyrim??????

Noortje wrote: They would never have updated skyui if it wasn't for the pay offer. I doubt they will finish skyui 5.0 and release it now, but it's not like it was ever going to be free in the first place.

Saije wrote: f*#@ that... We weren't black hearted. They were when they gave us a big green middle finger.

SNSDLOVER wrote: Honestly if they love modding and love sharing their mods to us, I doubt theyll leave. Modding could be their hobby or passion so Im certain this wont make them go away.

redrat07 wrote: there were d-threats to people who left to go to the paid system ?

phantompally76 wrote: @redrat, not in the quantities that people here want you to believe.

There was certainly some of it.....there always is. But the vast majority of butthurt mod authors and white knights are including irate mod users who posted "uninstalled and unendorsed, shame on you" along with any amount of criticism in that category. And THOSE comments grossly outnumbered any sort of threats, and were perfectly fair and justified.

BluemaxDR wrote: Oh, they won't stop developing mods. Just stop posting.

Arendella wrote: Chesko I don't have a problem with.

Isoku and SkyUi? definitely will never use their mods again *Will just use old version of SkyUi*. Was just a big slap in the face when he was all giddy about putting his mods up on Steam Workshop just pissing everyone off even more.

jfisha wrote: Thumbs up, Phantompally.

There are some mod authors that are going pull an Anita Sarkeesian and chastise our entire community because of a very small amount of very angry comments, but if you go back and look at comments, you'll notice most of them are people just saying they're disappointed and unendorsing.

Azulyn wrote: jfisha + phantompally76
Amen.
Most of the comments I saw were reasonable criticisms and/or remarks of disappointment, not frothing rage and threats of death and venngeeeaanncceee as all these white knights would have you believe.

tem1980 wrote: Unfortunately, that's the nature of the internet. 90% outrage and ass-holism, 5% controlled nonsense, 5% rational measured thought.

Its actually a pretty decent mirror of the real population, except real people only say the s#*! they do on the internet in RL when they dont think they can be identified or held accountable. Or you know, what the internet allows.

Everyone should try and tune out all the rage and insane s#*!.

jfisha wrote: I'll actually disagree with that, tem. I just think the very angry among us happen to also be the most inclined to write a comment.

WarfighterShaun wrote: May I ask what Isoku did? I have heard of Arthmoor kind of taking the piss out of some people.

sovs wrote: Chesko I don't have a problem with.

Isoku and SkyUi? definitely will never use their mods again *Will just use old version of SkyUi*. Was just a big slap in the face when he was all giddy about putting his mods up on Steam Workshop just pissing everyone off even more.

Same here, Midas Magic was by far one of the most popular mods in Oblivion, i have a hard time believing that he only received enough donations to barely cover fraps as he said.

They made a quite normal assumption that they could get some compensation from their hours and hours of hard work. But the self-entitled toxic Skyrim 'Community' would have nothing of it.

[phantompally76]

In response to post #24736589. #24736754, #24737024, #24737159, #24737319 are all replies on the same post.

Vesuvius1745 wrote:

Brasscatcher wrote: Agreed. I posted somewhere back in one of the other topics that I disagree with forcing mods behind a paywall. User funding for this hobby should always be voluntary. BUT. Bethesda (under Zenimax pressure, I'm sure) has released games in terrible condition for a AAA title. If anyone should be profit-sharing with crews like SKSE, SkyUI, Unofficial Patches, it should be Bethesda. Sure is nice having a devoted and skilled-enough fanbase to make your game run for you.

I decided with Skyrim to not preorder the next Bethesda game for this very reason. There's no point, if the friggin thing isn't going to work out of the box.

WightMage wrote: You mean aside from the fact that, in a year or two, they'll be selling the "Legendary Gold Assault Armageddon Omega Supreme Edition" with over $200 worth of DLC clothing, weapon, and texture packs in a bundle for 80% off?

Brasscatcher wrote: Oh Wight. You so crazy!

...Except it could happen. :D

protttt wrote: Totally agreed. In fact the reason why people are still playing Skyrim today is because of the mods, and the mods alone. Trust me I tried playing Skyrim without mods and I couldn't stand 15 minutes! It might be the best game in 2011 but just a no-more-than-s#*! in 2015 comparing to other RPG games in NO MODs type (Dragon Age Inquisitions is a good example).

@Vesuvius1745, have you forgotten Skyrim was Game of the Year on 3 platforms without a single mod?

Don't exaggerate. Skyrim plays just fine without mods, and still has a huge following on consoles.

Mods are great. But they're not mandatory.