Aliens

[MrDoctorDD]

Seems like you are attempting to define exactly what an alien race would do. I personally don't think we could fathom first contact, (or second for the conspiracy theorists). Seems like you are trying to define something you can't define.

[marharth]

Seems like you are attempting to define exactly what an alien race would do. I personally don't think we could fathom first contact, (or second for the conspiracy theorists). Seems like you are trying to define something you can't define.

You can't define it, you can make accurate assumptions.

 

The same people who say aliens are violent are making the same assumptions after all, not very fair to use that as a argument for that side either.

[MrDoctorDD]

Seems like you are attempting to define exactly what an alien race would do. I personally don't think we could fathom first contact, (or second for the conspiracy theorists). Seems like you are trying to define something you can't define.

You can't define it, you can make accurate assumptions.

 

The same people who say aliens are violent are making the same assumptions after all, not very fair to use that as a argument for that side either.

 

My statement was general. In my original post on the topic I thought it was dumb to think there was no possibility of alien life with the unvierse being as big as it is. I was commenting on how everyone made stipulations of such claims and first contact etc. I thought that was rather trivial, it's a yes or no question answer basis. We may not know the question nor answer in our lifetimes if we have been contacted, but to deny the possibility of more than mankind would be stupid to be blunt. The stipulations people are adding are funny though. =)

[HeyYou]

Seems like you are attempting to define exactly what an alien race would do. I personally don't think we could fathom first contact, (or second for the conspiracy theorists). Seems like you are trying to define something you can't define.

You can't define it, you can make accurate assumptions.

 

The same people who say aliens are violent are making the same assumptions after all, not very fair to use that as a argument for that side either.

 

Assumptions? Based on what? Human experience? As we have no experience..... we have nothing to base assumptions on. To unequivocally state that there will be no possibly violent space-faring races...... with absolutely nothing to base the statement on, isn't exactly what I would consider 'accurate'.

 

Also, just because they are 'peaceful' among themselves, does not necessarily imply that by extension, they will be peaceful with us as well. They may be xenophobic, and see any other race as a threat to their existence, and take it upon themselves to purge the universe of anyone that is 'not them'. They may be so different from us, that we have absolutely no basis for communication, and we are viewed as parasites living on a world that they wish to exploit. Or any of a number of other potential scenarios. Sure, there should be those that ARE friendly, but, 'assuming' they will ALL be, is a good way to get extinct.

[Ghogiel]

If humans do get more advanced, and ET saw that, I would say that we could certainly pose a threat to them. It is entirely within reason to vaporise us now just in the possibility that in 1mil years we could reach technology that could hurt or destroy them, or hell destroy galaxies or the universe itself, we know little of what the possibilities of the future technology, most military actions of late are pre-emptive moves that are designed to limit or avoid worse case scenarios.

[marharth]

Seems like you are attempting to define exactly what an alien race would do. I personally don't think we could fathom first contact, (or second for the conspiracy theorists). Seems like you are trying to define something you can't define.

You can't define it, you can make accurate assumptions.

 

The same people who say aliens are violent are making the same assumptions after all, not very fair to use that as a argument for that side either.

 

Assumptions? Based on what? Human experience? As we have no experience..... we have nothing to base assumptions on. To unequivocally state that there will be no possibly violent space-faring races...... with absolutely nothing to base the statement on, isn't exactly what I would consider 'accurate'.

 

Also, just because they are 'peaceful' among themselves, does not necessarily imply that by extension, they will be peaceful with us as well. They may be xenophobic, and see any other race as a threat to their existence, and take it upon themselves to purge the universe of anyone that is 'not them'. They may be so different from us, that we have absolutely no basis for communication, and we are viewed as parasites living on a world that they wish to exploit. Or any of a number of other potential scenarios. Sure, there should be those that ARE friendly, but, 'assuming' they will ALL be, is a good way to get extinct.

I am not saying that there is no violent race, it is just highly unlikely humans (more specifically earth) will ever come into contact with one.

 

Everything I said is based on current scientific knowledge, it is not based on human experience with aliens.

 

Currently we know that through the process of evolution that the race most able to adept to change will end up being the strongest and most intelligent race.

 

Eventually tribes will be formed and the race will work together to hunt and gather, after a while civilizations will come up.

 

The issues with tribes and civilizations is that they will cause competition. The issue with "working alone" is that you become much easier to kill.

 

Not to mention the passing of genetics is a competition by itself.

 

You can see how the natural process of evolution will lead to violence, it is just a matter of how soon the race can get it under control.

 

You can look at earth and see for yourself how that turns out.

 

We know FTL travel would require a huge amount of energy, and the only know source of energy that could do that is fusion power.

 

We know there are tons of other places to mine, and that planets with intelligence life could be a risk to the race attempting to evade.

 

Consider the following for violent races.

 

1. Could they work together to research the scientific knowledge needed to travel at such speeds?

 

2. Would competition kill them before they could do the above?

 

3. Would they over hunt there main source of food, or would their planet have drastic climate changes that they could not survive in?

 

4. Would they have the proper motivation to reach such levels of technology?

 

5. Could the race work as one, without separate tribes and countries?

 

 

Could you explain how a race could be entirely peaceful towards itself and its planet, but be completely violent towards other races?

[HeyYou]

Seems like you are attempting to define exactly what an alien race would do. I personally don't think we could fathom first contact, (or second for the conspiracy theorists). Seems like you are trying to define something you can't define.

You can't define it, you can make accurate assumptions.

 

The same people who say aliens are violent are making the same assumptions after all, not very fair to use that as a argument for that side either.

 

Assumptions? Based on what? Human experience? As we have no experience..... we have nothing to base assumptions on. To unequivocally state that there will be no possibly violent space-faring races...... with absolutely nothing to base the statement on, isn't exactly what I would consider 'accurate'.

 

Also, just because they are 'peaceful' among themselves, does not necessarily imply that by extension, they will be peaceful with us as well. They may be xenophobic, and see any other race as a threat to their existence, and take it upon themselves to purge the universe of anyone that is 'not them'. They may be so different from us, that we have absolutely no basis for communication, and we are viewed as parasites living on a world that they wish to exploit. Or any of a number of other potential scenarios. Sure, there should be those that ARE friendly, but, 'assuming' they will ALL be, is a good way to get extinct.

I am not saying that there is no violent race, it is just highly unlikely humans (more specifically earth) will ever come into contact with one.

 

Everything I said is based on current scientific knowledge, it is not based on human experience with aliens.

 

Currently we know that through the process of evolution that the race most able to adept to change will end up being the strongest and most intelligent race.

 

Eventually tribes will be formed and the race will work together to hunt and gather, after a while civilizations will come up.

 

The issues with tribes and civilizations is that they will cause competition. The issue with "working alone" is that you become much easier to kill.

 

Not to mention the passing of genetics is a competition by itself.

 

You can see how the natural process of evolution will lead to violence, it is just a matter of how soon the race can get it under control.

 

You can look at earth and see for yourself how that turns out.

 

We know FTL travel would require a huge amount of energy, and the only know source of energy that could do that is fusion power.

 

We know there are tons of other places to mine, and that planets with intelligence life could be a risk to the race attempting to evade.

 

Consider the following for violent races.

 

1. Could they work together to research the scientific knowledge needed to travel at such speeds?

 

2. Would competition kill them before they could do the above?

 

3. Would they over hunt there main source of food, or would their planet have drastic climate changes that they could not survive in?

 

4. Would they have the proper motivation to reach such levels of technology?

 

5. Could the race work as one, without separate tribes and countries?

 

 

Could you explain how a race could be entirely peaceful towards itself and its planet, but be completely violent towards other races?

 

Once again, you are making assumptions that have no basis though.

 

Fusion power being the only source? We don't know what all other power sources are available, so, that is a judgement we cannot make. Perhaps someone would harness an Anti-matter power source? Confining your suppositions to what WE know, denies the fact that a race that DOES develop FTL travel, IS going to be more technologically advanced than we are.

 

You are also running on the assumption that just because a race is peaceful amongst themselves, they will be peaceful with everyone. Take a look at some of the possibilities in my previous post. There is NO guarantee that just because they are a space faring race, they are by definition peaceful.

[marharth]

Seems like you are attempting to define exactly what an alien race would do. I personally don't think we could fathom first contact, (or second for the conspiracy theorists). Seems like you are trying to define something you can't define.

You can't define it, you can make accurate assumptions.

 

The same people who say aliens are violent are making the same assumptions after all, not very fair to use that as a argument for that side either.

 

Assumptions? Based on what? Human experience? As we have no experience..... we have nothing to base assumptions on. To unequivocally state that there will be no possibly violent space-faring races...... with absolutely nothing to base the statement on, isn't exactly what I would consider 'accurate'.

 

Also, just because they are 'peaceful' among themselves, does not necessarily imply that by extension, they will be peaceful with us as well. They may be xenophobic, and see any other race as a threat to their existence, and take it upon themselves to purge the universe of anyone that is 'not them'. They may be so different from us, that we have absolutely no basis for communication, and we are viewed as parasites living on a world that they wish to exploit. Or any of a number of other potential scenarios. Sure, there should be those that ARE friendly, but, 'assuming' they will ALL be, is a good way to get extinct.

I am not saying that there is no violent race, it is just highly unlikely humans (more specifically earth) will ever come into contact with one.

 

Everything I said is based on current scientific knowledge, it is not based on human experience with aliens.

 

Currently we know that through the process of evolution that the race most able to adept to change will end up being the strongest and most intelligent race.

 

Eventually tribes will be formed and the race will work together to hunt and gather, after a while civilizations will come up.

 

The issues with tribes and civilizations is that they will cause competition. The issue with "working alone" is that you become much easier to kill.

 

Not to mention the passing of genetics is a competition by itself.

 

You can see how the natural process of evolution will lead to violence, it is just a matter of how soon the race can get it under control.

 

You can look at earth and see for yourself how that turns out.

 

We know FTL travel would require a huge amount of energy, and the only know source of energy that could do that is fusion power.

 

We know there are tons of other places to mine, and that planets with intelligence life could be a risk to the race attempting to evade.

 

Consider the following for violent races.

 

1. Could they work together to research the scientific knowledge needed to travel at such speeds?

 

2. Would competition kill them before they could do the above?

 

3. Would they over hunt there main source of food, or would their planet have drastic climate changes that they could not survive in?

 

4. Would they have the proper motivation to reach such levels of technology?

 

5. Could the race work as one, without separate tribes and countries?

 

 

Could you explain how a race could be entirely peaceful towards itself and its planet, but be completely violent towards other races?

 

Once again, you are making assumptions that have no basis though.

 

Fusion power being the only source? We don't know what all other power sources are available, so, that is a judgement we cannot make. Perhaps someone would harness an Anti-matter power source? Confining your suppositions to what WE know, denies the fact that a race that DOES develop FTL travel, IS going to be more technologically advanced than we are.

 

You are also running on the assumption that just because a race is peaceful amongst themselves, they will be peaceful with everyone. Take a look at some of the possibilities in my previous post. There is NO guarantee that just because they are a space faring race, they are by definition peaceful.

Anti matter is a entire another debate, it is not even proven to exist yet, its just a theory.

 

If they are peaceful within themselves, and with their world, why would they not be peaceful to other races?

 

Once again, I am saying everything I say based on what we currently know. If you want to go into what we don't know, and what COULD be true, then there are endless possibilities and pointless speculations. Staying within what we currently know is necessary.

[HeyYou]

Seems like you are attempting to define exactly what an alien race would do. I personally don't think we could fathom first contact, (or second for the conspiracy theorists). Seems like you are trying to define something you can't define.

You can't define it, you can make accurate assumptions.

 

The same people who say aliens are violent are making the same assumptions after all, not very fair to use that as a argument for that side either.

 

Assumptions? Based on what? Human experience? As we have no experience..... we have nothing to base assumptions on. To unequivocally state that there will be no possibly violent space-faring races...... with absolutely nothing to base the statement on, isn't exactly what I would consider 'accurate'.

 

Also, just because they are 'peaceful' among themselves, does not necessarily imply that by extension, they will be peaceful with us as well. They may be xenophobic, and see any other race as a threat to their existence, and take it upon themselves to purge the universe of anyone that is 'not them'. They may be so different from us, that we have absolutely no basis for communication, and we are viewed as parasites living on a world that they wish to exploit. Or any of a number of other potential scenarios. Sure, there should be those that ARE friendly, but, 'assuming' they will ALL be, is a good way to get extinct.

I am not saying that there is no violent race, it is just highly unlikely humans (more specifically earth) will ever come into contact with one.

 

Everything I said is based on current scientific knowledge, it is not based on human experience with aliens.

 

Currently we know that through the process of evolution that the race most able to adept to change will end up being the strongest and most intelligent race.

 

Eventually tribes will be formed and the race will work together to hunt and gather, after a while civilizations will come up.

 

The issues with tribes and civilizations is that they will cause competition. The issue with "working alone" is that you become much easier to kill.

 

Not to mention the passing of genetics is a competition by itself.

 

You can see how the natural process of evolution will lead to violence, it is just a matter of how soon the race can get it under control.

 

You can look at earth and see for yourself how that turns out.

 

We know FTL travel would require a huge amount of energy, and the only know source of energy that could do that is fusion power.

 

We know there are tons of other places to mine, and that planets with intelligence life could be a risk to the race attempting to evade.

 

Consider the following for violent races.

 

1. Could they work together to research the scientific knowledge needed to travel at such speeds?

 

2. Would competition kill them before they could do the above?

 

3. Would they over hunt there main source of food, or would their planet have drastic climate changes that they could not survive in?

 

4. Would they have the proper motivation to reach such levels of technology?

 

5. Could the race work as one, without separate tribes and countries?

 

 

Could you explain how a race could be entirely peaceful towards itself and its planet, but be completely violent towards other races?

 

Once again, you are making assumptions that have no basis though.

 

Fusion power being the only source? We don't know what all other power sources are available, so, that is a judgement we cannot make. Perhaps someone would harness an Anti-matter power source? Confining your suppositions to what WE know, denies the fact that a race that DOES develop FTL travel, IS going to be more technologically advanced than we are.

 

You are also running on the assumption that just because a race is peaceful amongst themselves, they will be peaceful with everyone. Take a look at some of the possibilities in my previous post. There is NO guarantee that just because they are a space faring race, they are by definition peaceful.

Anti matter is a entire another debate, it is not even proven to exist yet, its just a theory.

 

If they are peaceful within themselves, and with their world, why would they not be peaceful to other races?

 

Once again, I am saying everything I say based on what we currently know. If you want to go into what we don't know, and what COULD be true, then there are endless possibilities and pointless speculations. Staying within what we currently know is necessary.

 

One could argue, that the entire premise is pure speculation, as we don't have FTL travel, nor do we even know if it is possible.

 

I would also point out, there there have been many peaceful civilizations...... that were at peace, until some outside influence came along, and made them NOT peaceful. Who is to say we won't be the impetus for a spacefaring race to suddenly decide that we are a threat, and want to remove us from scene?

 

And just because they are peaceful among themselves, in no way implies that they will be peaceful with us. The example of the xenophobic race springs immediately to mind here. Thinking themselves the 'master race', and all other lesser beings need to be purged from the universe. (not so far fetched as you would think.... look at our own history.)

 

Or, a government that is having some issues at home, for whatever reason, that decides an 'external threat' would be just the thing to draw their people together, against the common enemy. (this too has occurred in our own history.)

[marharth]

Seems like you are attempting to define exactly what an alien race would do. I personally don't think we could fathom first contact, (or second for the conspiracy theorists). Seems like you are trying to define something you can't define.

You can't define it, you can make accurate assumptions.

 

The same people who say aliens are violent are making the same assumptions after all, not very fair to use that as a argument for that side either.

 

Assumptions? Based on what? Human experience? As we have no experience..... we have nothing to base assumptions on. To unequivocally state that there will be no possibly violent space-faring races...... with absolutely nothing to base the statement on, isn't exactly what I would consider 'accurate'.

 

Also, just because they are 'peaceful' among themselves, does not necessarily imply that by extension, they will be peaceful with us as well. They may be xenophobic, and see any other race as a threat to their existence, and take it upon themselves to purge the universe of anyone that is 'not them'. They may be so different from us, that we have absolutely no basis for communication, and we are viewed as parasites living on a world that they wish to exploit. Or any of a number of other potential scenarios. Sure, there should be those that ARE friendly, but, 'assuming' they will ALL be, is a good way to get extinct.

I am not saying that there is no violent race, it is just highly unlikely humans (more specifically earth) will ever come into contact with one.

 

Everything I said is based on current scientific knowledge, it is not based on human experience with aliens.

 

Currently we know that through the process of evolution that the race most able to adept to change will end up being the strongest and most intelligent race.

 

Eventually tribes will be formed and the race will work together to hunt and gather, after a while civilizations will come up.

 

The issues with tribes and civilizations is that they will cause competition. The issue with "working alone" is that you become much easier to kill.

 

Not to mention the passing of genetics is a competition by itself.

 

You can see how the natural process of evolution will lead to violence, it is just a matter of how soon the race can get it under control.

 

You can look at earth and see for yourself how that turns out.

 

We know FTL travel would require a huge amount of energy, and the only know source of energy that could do that is fusion power.

 

We know there are tons of other places to mine, and that planets with intelligence life could be a risk to the race attempting to evade.

 

Consider the following for violent races.

 

1. Could they work together to research the scientific knowledge needed to travel at such speeds?

 

2. Would competition kill them before they could do the above?

 

3. Would they over hunt there main source of food, or would their planet have drastic climate changes that they could not survive in?

 

4. Would they have the proper motivation to reach such levels of technology?

 

5. Could the race work as one, without separate tribes and countries?

 

 

Could you explain how a race could be entirely peaceful towards itself and its planet, but be completely violent towards other races?

 

Once again, you are making assumptions that have no basis though.

 

Fusion power being the only source? We don't know what all other power sources are available, so, that is a judgement we cannot make. Perhaps someone would harness an Anti-matter power source? Confining your suppositions to what WE know, denies the fact that a race that DOES develop FTL travel, IS going to be more technologically advanced than we are.

 

You are also running on the assumption that just because a race is peaceful amongst themselves, they will be peaceful with everyone. Take a look at some of the possibilities in my previous post. There is NO guarantee that just because they are a space faring race, they are by definition peaceful.

Anti matter is a entire another debate, it is not even proven to exist yet, its just a theory.

 

If they are peaceful within themselves, and with their world, why would they not be peaceful to other races?

 

Once again, I am saying everything I say based on what we currently know. If you want to go into what we don't know, and what COULD be true, then there are endless possibilities and pointless speculations. Staying within what we currently know is necessary.

 

One could argue, that the entire premise is pure speculation, as we don't have FTL travel, nor do we even know if it is possible.

 

I would also point out, there there have been many peaceful civilizations...... that were at peace, until some outside influence came along, and made them NOT peaceful. Who is to say we won't be the impetus for a spacefaring race to suddenly decide that we are a threat, and want to remove us from scene?

 

And just because they are peaceful among themselves, in no way implies that they will be peaceful with us. The example of the xenophobic race springs immediately to mind here. Thinking themselves the 'master race', and all other lesser beings need to be purged from the universe. (not so far fetched as you would think.... look at our own history.)

 

Or, a government that is having some issues at home, for whatever reason, that decides an 'external threat' would be just the thing to draw their people together, against the common enemy. (this too has occurred in our own history.)

The human race has never once been peaceful to each other, not really a good comparison.

 

Unless the race is some kind of "hive mind" it won't have universal agreement on if a race needs to be destroyed or not.

 

If the race is peaceful between themselves and the animals and plants on their planet, it seems they could come up with a more logical and peaceful way to deal with mankind.