Regarding Site Listed as Pirate Site and more.

[rblood01]

I don't understand the sensitivity of some when it comes to this another site. Let them be what they are and Nexus be what it will be. This of course is my opinion as limited importance as it is :).

 

I don't want to be clicking on links and searching for mods and such and get presented a page with advertisements of someone giving a blow job. Nexus has a responsibility to provide a reasonable experience for its users, some are underage and others might find such content very objectionable. It is a simple matter of providing appropriate service for its users as the reason for not allowing this site to be linked / mentioned. I am sure those that want to know about this site and its content can easily use a search engine to find it and its mods. There is no need to plaster banners of it across Nexus or for Nexus to even provided for links to competition, what little competition that would be. (being an adult modding porn site ;)). By all means those individuals that are interested in this content, have at it. but complaining about not being able to link to that site is just petty.

 

I rarely post but had to for this. Seeing this pop up time and time again about people complaining about not being able to link to LL is just sad. Doubly so considering it was someone that was banned and created another account to make this thread. :( Move on, let it go.

[LadyMilla]

"Regarding pirated content - the content on LL is, as the rules dictate, strictly original or with the approval given by the original creator. "

 

Sorry, but that's just not true. It only takes a few minutes to search and find ripped (illegal) content on that site. I sincerely doubt that content blatantly extracted and converted from e.g. Square Enix games qualifies as "content approved by the original creator".

[Thandal]

And it's not so much the uploading of ripped content by members that's one of the significant objections to LL.

That even happens here on occasion. (Shocking, I know!)

 

It's that the site owners/managers refuse to remove such content when it's reported to them. :armscrossed:

[Dark0ne]

It's that the site owners/managers refuse to remove such content when it's reported to them.

 

 

I'm not entirely sure that's the case. Is there any proof that they don't action reports of copyrighted content?

 

On pr0n content - hating on LL or avoiding it because of content of sexual nature ranging from casual sex to rape and bestiality is a display of the most whopping amount of hypocrisy. The Nexus itself contains mods containing not only explicit sex and prostitution, but also rape and bestiality. The same hypocrisy can be pointed out when talking about original content. Moreover, LL is a forum, a community, and as such it stand on pillars made of normal people of flesh and blood. As a community of such people, LL keeps an open mind and doesn't discriminate LGBT content, bestiality and BDSM (to such an extent that adult mods rival the amount of "common mods"), but imposes limitations on itself -> the best known example is not touching children and steering clear of politics. To put it simply, LL behaves like an educated adult in the modern first world.

 

 

 

Isn't the reason for the banlist so is irrelevant to the conversation.

 

Regarding XXX adverts - Being known to harbor large amounts adult modifications and openly discussing about sexual stuff drives away advertising organizations like a man suffering from leprosy scares off a crowd. This is an actual problem LL has.

The only way out of this securing a deal with a non-adult advertisement company, or finding a different reliable source of income for the website.

Alienating LL and sh!tting all over it whenever the opportunity presents itself certainly doesn't help and is a short-sighted practise. Here's why:

 

 

The lack of any sort of age gateway/confirmation is the major problem, not the ads themselves e.g. there are XXX ads on the front page of the site without the user having to login and say "I'm over 18". Yes, it's really easy for kids to access content like this if they want to online, but a bare minimum age gateway of that type goes a long way to show you, as the site admin, have washed your hands of the situation by ensuring you've made it very clear, from the get-go, that the content on the site is for people aged 18 or over and if the user accepts that, they gain entry under that proviso. It also ensures people who've come to the site "innocently", without knowing anything about LL, don't go blind/their heads don't explode/they don't have an aneurysm and whatever else looking at porn does to people.

 

THE FUTURE - Nexus had somewhat of a monopoly on large quantities of high-quality mods for many games, but mostly Elder Scrolls... a few years ago.

Right now, Nexusmods only has the advantage of being the Nr.1 Google suggestion for mods.

What makes a modding community thrive is the influx and presence talented modders and forums filled with creative ideas. Today, Nexus only boasts a few high-quality modders and the output of quality content slowly decreases over time.

On the other hand, the competition to Nexus is churning out progress: alpha and beta versions of Skyrim mods injecting TES V with new technologies, mods built with unification projects, Bullet and C. And everywhere one might go, one will certainly find modders strongly criticizing the Nexus.

Putting modders first and making forums the friendliest as possible is the sustainable way to do things, and the LL community is a big family where people gladly help each other out, even though on the internet we're basically strangers.

Today, implementing the sustainable approach is nescessary for Nexus to survive as a significant player on the scene. Bethesda.net is comming and the people over there are sure as hell going to aim for It rivalling Steam and the Nexus. If the Nexus drives talent away from itself, the new guys will rampantly grow until someone establishes a monopoly on quality mods -> in the long run monopoly leads to faltering quality.

 

 

You're welcome to your opinion about how much you like LL and the seemingly popular and long-standing (wrong) opinion among some LL denizens that some how the Nexus is bleeding traffic/members/whatever, despite the open statistics we have on the site that point completely to the opposite (remember those cold, hard facts you were talking about at the start of your post...? Lets try and stick to them and not bring the LL Kool Aid here please!) , but it has absolutely no bearing on the main topic, which is why LL is banlisted.

[Foss4]

To start off, I'd like to thank you all for taking the time to reply.

It's a nice gesture.

With that out of the way, I'd like to object to some of your points.

 

From top to bottom, as I read the replies:

 

Why do this? Why keep complaining that we can't freely link to "those 'other' sites"?

Frankly, to me it's not a problem. I'm okay with sites and forums isolating themselves from one another; there is no shame in that. And I fully understand that it might be dangerous for you to click on an NSFW link under the wrong circumstances -> next to your wife, from your work PC etc.

This is something the LL "Kool Aid" guys banned from the Nexus and bearing a grudge against it complain about.

What angers me is that the Nexus, instead of simply stating in their rules something like "We don't like that site and you'll either do the same or join some other forum", kicked off the rumor that LL is a despicable pirate site (and seemingly continues on with this, judging by what LadyMilla said)

 

Ripped content, you say?

Since it was stated that S-E's rights are being violated here, I decided to equally quickly glance on the matter as Nexus staff did. After checking the 4 most significant LL branches (Skyrim modding, Oblivion, the Fallouts, and the Sims4) whilst keeping an eye on the S-E wiki page list of games.

I couldn't find a thing that would blatantly resembl S-E content.

I admit that in the depths of the forum there might be some old, forgotten thread containing the stuff you mention, but I lack a link to such a thread.

But I could do the same with Nexus and look up the old discussions filled with people consumed by hate pointing out every copyright rule violation on the Nexus. In this respect, I am glad that Thandal admitted that the Nexus shares the same troubles.

If the copyright violations are that bad, the site would be taken doen because of the copyright protection act - that didn't happen, and it's not like LL is under the radar.

In the end, this brings me back to why I wrote my opinion here: I will not tolerate wrongful accusations that are obviously aimed at damaging someone's reputation. Be careful, this is punishable by law.

 

And now to Dark0ne's points

 

Yes, I agree, LL lacks an age gate. It took me time to start trusting that place because of its reputation on the outside, but I've grown to respect the people there. But the age gate is still missing, and that is the very minimum LL should do. But...

- Bypassing the measures taken by the Nexus to prevent underage members from having access to full on nudity and even worse stuff is as easy as setting up an account with false info linking to an email address set up just for this occassion.

- If you surf around LL without being logged on, you can't view photos attached to mods (but thre are still the adult ads all over the place)

 

I am a non-drinker of LL Kool Aid and I do like the Nexus; my points are based on my own experience from surfing on multiple mod sites looking for cool mods for Bethesda and C&C games. Your statisics may look like the Nexus is doing well, but from what I've seen (please note that I have been visiting the Nexus for far longer than the age of this account) there has been a shift in the modding world:

Not long ago, the best of the best posted their mods on the Nexus and whenever I wanted to see what's new, hot and pioneering, I looked at the Nexus. Today, all that Nexus has to offer from the things that stand out are ENB presets, character save games, and a few HD armor and clothing mods.

On the other hand, other modding sites harbor mods that look like alien creations when compared to the stuff being added to the Nexus.

 

The condensed point is:

LL is being branded a pirate site by members of the Nexus staff and the replies of the more short-tempered here seem to add up to the stories of naysayers claiming that the Nexus treats modders badly -> as a citizen of a modern country, I detest wrongful accusations and baseless shaming, and as a human being, I believe people can get along and that people should have the opportunity to link to whoever they want (in the interest of strengthening positive relations). It is also my belief that free modding is in danger of being steamrolled by the well-funded Bethesda.net Steamroller, and to counter that, we must be more flexiblr and accepting than a corporate beast (let's face it, hired mods always do more insensitive stuff to a site than people who do it out of heart)

Edited July 28, 2015 by Foss4

[bben46]

I think you missed the point. piracy is not the only reason a site may be proscribed here, There are actually several other reasons. You are making the assumption that because a site is proscribed it absolutely must be for piracy. And in this case - not so. A site may be proscribed for pushing malware, for allowing people to upload someone elses work without permission, for allowing rips from other games, for allowing copyright infringement, for not following age restrictions that are required by law in the UK & US as well as piracy, and possibly a few other reasons. But not ONLY piracy.

 

And another fallacy - Nexus must be losing members to LL because of ...what? There is no rule that says you cannot be a member on both, and my guess is that if you were to go through the memberships of each, there would be a lot of overlap. You can be a member and use many sites and that does not reduce the membership on any of them. We do not ban because you choose to download from, post on or be a member on some other site. That would be silly. We don't demand that authors exclusively use Nexus to upload their mods either. They are free to upload wherever they choose.

 

We don't hate LL, and in fact it is against our policy to post hate for any other site. We actually try to keep the intersite drama down as much as we can. There is room for both on the internet, and a lot more besides. :thumbsup:

[Foss4]

I think you missed the point. piracy is not the only reason a site may be proscribed here, There are actually several other reasons. You are making the assumption that because a site is proscribed it absolutely must be for piracy. And in this case - not so. A site may be proscribed for pushing malware, for allowing people to upload someone elses work without permission, for allowing rips from other games, for allowing copyright infringement, for not following age restrictions that are required by law in the UK & US as well as piracy, and possibly a few other reasons. But not ONLY piracy.

 

And another fallacy - Nexus must be losing members to LL because of ...what? There is no rule that says you cannot be a member on both, and my guess is that if you were to go through the memberships of each, there would be a lot of overlap. You can be a member and use many sites and that does not reduce the membership on any of them. We do not ban because you choose to download from, post on or be a member on some other site. That would be silly. We don't demand that authors exclusively use Nexus to upload their mods either. They are free to upload wherever they choose.

 

We don't hate LL, and in fact it is against our policy to post hate for any other site. We actually try to keep the intersite drama down as much as we can. There is room for both on the internet, and a lot more besides. :thumbsup:

I admire your well-worded replying.

However, I will stress, for one more time, the point I'm trying to make.

 

On other sites (not only exclusive to LL), there are people (who just so happen to be producing good quality material and some even better) who openly criticize the Nexus and you, claim to have been banned for no proper reason, state that you hide behind fake political correctness, and, most importantly, stress that you can reuse their work aa long as it isn't posted on the Nexus.

Seeing this comming from multiple sources, I'm kind of drawn towards thinking there might be some wrong on your side.

 

While I'd like to see sites cooperate and stand strong against the threat of Steam and Bethesda.net slowly and subtly establishing dominance and bringing in an era of paid (non-donated) modding, pushing gaming another step closer to gaming as a service, it is entirely on the communities who they do and don't want referenced in their forums.

 

What angers me is seeing a blatantly detest-inspired statement that content blatantly illegaly extracted and converted is the best and most prominent LL has to offer

[ZZZ02]

So are you saying that if it wasn't for the sites err explicit ads or at least the lack of control over who sees them it would not be banned? I only went there once, when I first started modding skyrim I had an error with wrye, didn't see it here and google searched the error, it was the only site I found that had instructions that worked... and the one that made me get an ad blocker. In my opinion other than the bad stuff that may be there it is pretty much what the nexus is, a source for mods and information if needed.

[TheVampireDante]

 

On other sites (not only exclusive to LL), there are people (who just so happen to be producing good quality material and some even better) who openly criticize the Nexus and you, claim to have been banned for no proper reason, state that you hide behind fake political correctness, and, most importantly, stress that you can reuse their work aa long as it isn't posted on the Nexus.

Seeing this comming from multiple sources, I'm kind of drawn towards thinking there might be some wrong on your side.

 

Of course, many of those people would say it is unfair, or for "no proper reason" - they've been banned, so their interpretation is bound to be somewhat biased. Might not be in some over-exaggerated way that some have shown in the past, but still. Too many "play the victim" and go around telling stories about how they were mistreated and hated on. All to often these claims are unfounded and are simply created to cause some form of drama. Utterly pointless in my view and doesn't help anyone.

 

Staying on site is as simple as reading over the regulations we have, and sticking to them - not a difficult thing to achieve. If you've been banned, then you'd done something at odds with those regulations.

Try looking up their bans - they are listed openly for this very reason. So people can see for themselves what those reasons are.

 

There is an appeal system in place for those that wish to attempt a reconciliation, so they can state a case for their return (and perhaps apologize to any party they feel would require one) - and even that isn't free from people throwing mud. Some of them aren't even qualifying submissions at times, just used to add a few more insults or boast about how they'll be back to make some attempt at annoying us in one form or another.

 

For those that don't know how the appeal system works - once an appeal is submitted, it takes three votes either way to decide the outcome, whether it be a denial or a reinstatement.

The only exception to this, would be if Robin steps in and decides the outcome - a very rare event up to this point.

 

What angers me is seeing a blatantly detest-inspired statement that content blatantly illegaly extracted and converted is the best and most prominent LL has to offer

 

- and it's statements like this that lead people to believe that's all anyone here does. Personally, I cast a small reminder that it's on our blocked list when mentioned or that people should not link to it, nothing further. Someone asks why - well, Robin's already explained the reasons above, which are repeated - and I point out our rules about linking to pornographic material if required to (due to the previously mentioned advertisements). Beyond that, I have nothing to say about the site, I have no reason to say anything further.

[OneShotAccount]

Why is this being discussed? Every time LL is mentioned here the staff goes into a tail-spin. Lady Milla didn’t like what she read in the OP and censored a phonetic spelling of L*****L**. I know because I read it before she did the edit. She was so upset with the OP she compared account info just to see if she could get something on him, which she did. The OP didn’t break any forum rules in his post and she had no valid reason to compare accounts, she just didn’t like what she read. And despite Dark0ne’s ‘Oh never mind’ attitude after that point the OP is still valid because Dark0ne treated it that way initially.

And then there is Dark0ne’s epic level of butt-hurt because people say rude things about him on other forums. ‘You’re drinking Kool Aid if you believe that stuff,’ is a cop out. I’ve been a member here since tessource and Dark0ne was 15. Some of the things said about Dark0ne are true because I’ve seen them with my own eyes. Dark0ne does get too much hate directed at him though.

Then we have the staff here who blatantly state LL nothing but a pirate site and a den of mod thieves. Talk about drinking the Kool Aid. The only two staff members here who seem to have a reasonable grasp on reality are bben and Dante, but even then their opinions are tainted about LL.

So why is this being discussed or even considered? No one on the staff really wants it so just leave it alone.

And the OneShotAccount name? Because I’m long-standing member here and I’m not in the mood to have my real account sacked because some staff member that’s been here less time than I have decides they don’t like what I’m posting and wants to ban me. Sad that I have to hide on my home forum just to say what's on my mind. The account was made with a new email and registered with a proxy, fyi.

I know this post will be hidden and only the staff will be able to view it, but the staff is who I'm talking to.