Lisnpuppy Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Well if you think the lack of internet ever stopped the government from finding out anything it wanted about you then that is naive. Now maybe they don't have as much legwork but it happened all the time. This isn't new and government agencies having info on the general citizenry and it maybe not being legal...well then again-they have all kinds of stuff. Now everyone keeps track of things. I remember a local grocery store (Kroger) starting their "kroger card" for discounts and stuff. My friend wouldn't use them because he was worried that the cigarettes and beer would find its way back to the employer.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimboUK Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 The UK government (maybe the US too) want to standardise encryption so as to always have a backdoor... Its difficult to know who to run to, and with things like TTIP it doesn't paint a pretty picture. The UK government would put cameras in peoples homes and barcodes on peoples arms if they thought they could get away with it, I was hoping that sort of thing would stop when Labour got kicked out but the Tories have carried on where Labour left off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunshinenbrick Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Well if you think the lack of internet ever stopped the government from finding out anything it wanted about you then that is naive. Now maybe they don't have as much legwork but it happened all the time. This isn't new and government agencies having info on the general citizenry and it maybe not being legal...well then again-they have all kinds of stuff. Now everyone keeps track of things. I remember a local grocery store (Kroger) starting their "kroger card" for discounts and stuff. My friend wouldn't use them because he was worried that the cigarettes and beer would find its way back to the employer.. The logisitcs provided by the Internet does change the playing field and the incrementalism does not validate the ethics of such practices. There is a difference between having to obtain a warrant to enter and search your house, and the in-built ability for backdoor access to all our digital information (which is quickly replacing the things in one's house worth searching for) Besides, governments in the traditional sense that we think of them are pretty much redundant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurielius Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 The UK government (maybe the US too) want to standardise encryption so as to always have a backdoor... Its difficult to know who to run to, and with things like TTIP it doesn't paint a pretty picture. The UK government would put cameras in peoples homes and barcodes on peoples arms if they thought they could get away with it, I was hoping that sort of thing would stop when Labour got kicked out but the Tories have carried on where Labour left off. Several years ago I was invited down to New Scotland Yard for a tour by an old friend. Upon arrival he asked what time I walked out the door..then he brought up CCTV footage that showed my progress from Chelsea to the City with less than a 2-3 minute gap throughout. I found this disturbing as an American, they saw it as common place. Orwell must be laughing in his grave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunshinenbrick Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 The UK government (maybe the US too) want to standardise encryption so as to always have a backdoor... Its difficult to know who to run to, and with things like TTIP it doesn't paint a pretty picture. The UK government would put cameras in peoples homes and barcodes on peoples arms if they thought they could get away with it, I was hoping that sort of thing would stop when Labour got kicked out but the Tories have carried on where Labour left off. Several years ago I was invited down to New Scotland Yard for a tour by an old friend. Upon arrival he asked what time I walked out the door..then he brought up CCTV footage that showed my progress from Chelsea to the City with less than a 2-3 minute gap throughout. I found this disturbing as an American, they saw it as common place. Orwell must be laughing in his grave. Britain is a small country and London is a microcosm of it, being particularly aggressive in this way. There have been demonstrations lately surrounding this sort of 'cleansing' of the streets. For example, they are now about to make homelessness pretty much illegal in The City (which is almost a state within a state) while installing spikes in shop windows in other places. However, I do not think America is home to the great liberties that perhaps it once was either. It is much larger and therefore lends itself to be difficult to control, but the rights of its citizens is being eroded in all shapes and manners. No offense intended as I have quite a few American friends... and well its something a lot of people are worried about. 1984... Brave New World... it comes to shocking revelation when these things are staring us in the face and yet everybody goes round shouting 'tin hats' whenever people question things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurielius Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 The UK government (maybe the US too) want to standardise encryption so as to always have a backdoor... Its difficult to know who to run to, and with things like TTIP it doesn't paint a pretty picture. The UK government would put cameras in peoples homes and barcodes on peoples arms if they thought they could get away with it, I was hoping that sort of thing would stop when Labour got kicked out but the Tories have carried on where Labour left off. Several years ago I was invited down to New Scotland Yard for a tour by an old friend. Upon arrival he asked what time I walked out the door..then he brought up CCTV footage that showed my progress from Chelsea to the City with less than a 2-3 minute gap throughout. I found this disturbing as an American, they saw it as common place. Orwell must be laughing in his grave. Britain is a small country and London is a microcosm of it, being particularly aggressive in this way. There have been demonstrations lately surrounding this sort of 'cleansing' of the streets. For example, they are now about to make homelessness pretty much illegal in The City (which is almost a state within a state) while installing spikes in shop windows in other places. However, I do not think America is home to the great liberties that perhaps it once was either. It is much larger and therefore lends itself to be difficult to control, but the rights of its citizens is being eroded in all shapes and manners. No offense intended as I have quite a few American friends... and well its something a lot of people are worried about. 1984... Brave New World... it comes to shocking revelation when these things are staring us in the face and yet everybody goes round shouting 'tin hats' whenever people question things. Where I live they wanted to install only four CCTV cameras for traffic control..all the hapless politicos that proposed this lost their seats in opposition landslides in the subsequent election. Current status...not a single camera anywhere. Freedom requires vigilance against encroachments. "Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve either one." -Ben Franklin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunshinenbrick Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 The UK government (maybe the US too) want to standardise encryption so as to always have a backdoor... Its difficult to know who to run to, and with things like TTIP it doesn't paint a pretty picture. The UK government would put cameras in peoples homes and barcodes on peoples arms if they thought they could get away with it, I was hoping that sort of thing would stop when Labour got kicked out but the Tories have carried on where Labour left off. Several years ago I was invited down to New Scotland Yard for a tour by an old friend. Upon arrival he asked what time I walked out the door..then he brought up CCTV footage that showed my progress from Chelsea to the City with less than a 2-3 minute gap throughout. I found this disturbing as an American, they saw it as common place. Orwell must be laughing in his grave. Britain is a small country and London is a microcosm of it, being particularly aggressive in this way. There have been demonstrations lately surrounding this sort of 'cleansing' of the streets. For example, they are now about to make homelessness pretty much illegal in The City (which is almost a state within a state) while installing spikes in shop windows in other places. However, I do not think America is home to the great liberties that perhaps it once was either. It is much larger and therefore lends itself to be difficult to control, but the rights of its citizens is being eroded in all shapes and manners. No offense intended as I have quite a few American friends... and well its something a lot of people are worried about. 1984... Brave New World... it comes to shocking revelation when these things are staring us in the face and yet everybody goes round shouting 'tin hats' whenever people question things. Where I live they wanted to install only four CCTV cameras for traffic control..all the hapless politicos that proposed this lost their seats in opposition landslides in the subsequent election. Current status...not a single camera anywhere. Freedom requires vigilance against encroachments. "Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve either one." -Ben Franklin Except for cameras in laptops, Xbox, mobile phones.... in fact one does not need a camera to track people, just their phone and a wi-fi signal or satellite. Or every time you login anywhere or use your card... and now with the advent of the Internet of Things we will be watched everywhere and all of the time - how much we eat, sleep, drink, smoke, walk, watch TV etc etc Of course there are a lot of good uses for such powerful technology, but then there is also a lot of malevolent uses too. I too implore people to remain vigilant and inquisitive - but, perhaps somehow paradoxically, this is partly what has lead us to the unfortunate situation we are in today (?) There are a lot of very wise things said by American politicians of old, but unfortunately they don't seem to have been listened to :sad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimboUK Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 The UK government (maybe the US too) want to standardise encryption so as to always have a backdoor... Its difficult to know who to run to, and with things like TTIP it doesn't paint a pretty picture. The UK government would put cameras in peoples homes and barcodes on peoples arms if they thought they could get away with it, I was hoping that sort of thing would stop when Labour got kicked out but the Tories have carried on where Labour left off. Several years ago I was invited down to New Scotland Yard for a tour by an old friend. Upon arrival he asked what time I walked out the door..then he brought up CCTV footage that showed my progress from Chelsea to the City with less than a 2-3 minute gap throughout. I found this disturbing as an American, they saw it as common place. Orwell must be laughing in his grave. Britain is a small country and London is a microcosm of it, being particularly aggressive in this way. There have been demonstrations lately surrounding this sort of 'cleansing' of the streets. For example, they are now about to make homelessness pretty much illegal in The City (which is almost a state within a state) while installing spikes in shop windows in other places. However, I do not think America is home to the great liberties that perhaps it once was either. It is much larger and therefore lends itself to be difficult to control, but the rights of its citizens is being eroded in all shapes and manners. No offense intended as I have quite a few American friends... and well its something a lot of people are worried about. 1984... Brave New World... it comes to shocking revelation when these things are staring us in the face and yet everybody goes round shouting 'tin hats' whenever people question things. Where I live they wanted to install only four CCTV cameras for traffic control..all the hapless politicos that proposed this lost their seats in opposition landslides in the subsequent election. Current status...not a single camera anywhere. Freedom requires vigilance against encroachments. "Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve either one." -Ben Franklin The problem we have is the opposition would do exactly the same thing, Labour, Tories, Lib Dems and SNP are as bad as one another, they're part of a political class that sees itself as the ruler rather than the servant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisnpuppy Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 The UK government (maybe the US too) want to standardise encryption so as to always have a backdoor... Its difficult to know who to run to, and with things like TTIP it doesn't paint a pretty picture. The UK government would put cameras in peoples homes and barcodes on peoples arms if they thought they could get away with it, I was hoping that sort of thing would stop when Labour got kicked out but the Tories have carried on where Labour left off. Several years ago I was invited down to New Scotland Yard for a tour by an old friend. Upon arrival he asked what time I walked out the door..then he brought up CCTV footage that showed my progress from Chelsea to the City with less than a 2-3 minute gap throughout. I found this disturbing as an American, they saw it as common place. Orwell must be laughing in his grave. Britain is a small country and London is a microcosm of it, being particularly aggressive in this way. There have been demonstrations lately surrounding this sort of 'cleansing' of the streets. For example, they are now about to make homelessness pretty much illegal in The City (which is almost a state within a state) while installing spikes in shop windows in other places. However, I do not think America is home to the great liberties that perhaps it once was either. It is much larger and therefore lends itself to be difficult to control, but the rights of its citizens is being eroded in all shapes and manners. No offense intended as I have quite a few American friends... and well its something a lot of people are worried about. 1984... Brave New World... it comes to shocking revelation when these things are staring us in the face and yet everybody goes round shouting 'tin hats' whenever people question things. Where I live they wanted to install only four CCTV cameras for traffic control..all the hapless politicos that proposed this lost their seats in opposition landslides in the subsequent election. Current status...not a single camera anywhere. Freedom requires vigilance against encroachments. "Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve either one." -Ben Franklin The problem we have is the opposition would do exactly the same thing, Labour, Tories, Lib Dems and SNP are as bad as one another, they're part of a political class that sees itself as the ruler rather than the servant. Yes..exactly. That is why the people need to look at this info as a valid and worthy commodity. Once people do this then the laws can start changed cause nothing causes change faster that a money making commodity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyYou Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 The lobbyists will be against any law that that removes a 'free' commodity from their grasp. That, and there is no real good way to regulate data mining...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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