Why we can't use Patreon, and talking about donations and doing more to support mod authors

[Ghatto]

In response to post #28666384.

Shrutesh wrote: Well its possible like Beth are gonna be implementing their own Paid system after Fallout 4, especially considering how they have announced mods for the PS4/XBO... as long as they keep it to OPTIONAL donations it should be fine.

I know many of us mod just because we enjoy it (more than actually playing the game itself) and while being paid would be nice, its not something we expect since we would have made the exact same mod anyway whether or not we were sharing it with other people.

Then of course there are the really talented and dedicated modders who make the huge/complex mods that certainly deserve more than $2 a year... the challenge here is giving these people more visibility while keeping the people who ask for $100 donations for an apple to a minimum.. well unless its a really GOOD apple ofc. ;)

I'm less concerned about a donation system built in with Fallout 4 as I'm concerned the modding platform will be locked down to support it. Stuff like Mod Organizer is a godsend and was only possible because the modding platform isn't locked into official programs built by the devs.

[Ghatto]

In response to post #28663749. #28664219, #28665004, #28665334 are all replies on the same post.

axonis wrote: Many people here don't seem to get it. This isn't a discussion about premium modding. This is coming, whether they like it or not. This is a discussion about helping the Nexus keep AAA modders here. So, if you feel that you owe something to Dark0ne and the rest, then give them your support by

1) Shutting up your drivel against creators who want to sell their products.
2) Try to think of ways to keep those creators happy by flowing donations.
3) Donate, if you can.

MrJoseCuervo wrote: Greedy modders can take a hike. If they want to try and make a living modding good luck with that because it will not happen.

Real modders will continue to make mods and get exposure for their talents.

Mods are not a requirement. If you want to spend hours working on something then attempt to charge for it, then hardly anyone will see your work or it will just pirated from you. You are just peeing into the wind.

Galadreal wrote: Wow, you just totally missed the point of the previous comment, didn't you? I mean seriously, I have seen your other posts on here, and I can only guess that you are just here for the trolling. And while I think everyone is allowed to their opinions, this is not a place for trolls. Please remove your hands from the keyboard unless you actually have something constructive to contribute.

Oh, wait, I'm sorry, you don't contribute anything, you don't have any mods that you share with people, and you only have 26 posts, most of which I think are on this thread. So yeah...I don't actually care what you have to say.

Edited: to try to be less angry...and FAILED. I am still angry.

MrJoseCuervo wrote: I see, you don't care about the people who use your content.

That is obvious since you want to join the corporate goons and destroy modding as we know it with the hopes of getting money.

Lets see what mods you have done.

One adds more food to Inn keepers inventory.

The other adds more beds to homes

Your final mod add a general stores chest to certain location.

Hardly anything ground breaking or original. Do you think you would make money with that?

No you wont. You are just helping to drag down modding and are suffering from delusions of grandeur.

And just because I do not agree with you and entertain your greedy dreams does not make me a troll.

What makes you think sites like this will survive should big business actually succeed in turning out paid mods?

[Zaldir]

In response to post #28663749. #28664219, #28665004, #28665334, #28675154 are all replies on the same post.

axonis wrote: Many people here don't seem to get it. This isn't a discussion about premium modding. This is coming, whether they like it or not. This is a discussion about helping the Nexus keep AAA modders here. So, if you feel that you owe something to Dark0ne and the rest, then give them your support by

1) Shutting up your drivel against creators who want to sell their products.
2) Try to think of ways to keep those creators happy by flowing donations.
3) Donate, if you can.

MrJoseCuervo wrote: Greedy modders can take a hike. If they want to try and make a living modding good luck with that because it will not happen.

Real modders will continue to make mods and get exposure for their talents.

Mods are not a requirement. If you want to spend hours working on something then attempt to charge for it, then hardly anyone will see your work or it will just pirated from you. You are just peeing into the wind.

Galadreal wrote: Wow, you just totally missed the point of the previous comment, didn't you? I mean seriously, I have seen your other posts on here, and I can only guess that you are just here for the trolling. And while I think everyone is allowed to their opinions, this is not a place for trolls. Please remove your hands from the keyboard unless you actually have something constructive to contribute.

Oh, wait, I'm sorry, you don't contribute anything, you don't have any mods that you share with people, and you only have 26 posts, most of which I think are on this thread. So yeah...I don't actually care what you have to say.

Edited: to try to be less angry...and FAILED. I am still angry.

MrJoseCuervo wrote: I see, you don't care about the people who use your content.

That is obvious since you want to join the corporate goons and destroy modding as we know it with the hopes of getting money.

Lets see what mods you have done.

One adds more food to Inn keepers inventory.

The other adds more beds to homes

Your final mod add a general stores chest to certain location.

Hardly anything ground breaking or original. Do you think you would make money with that?

No you wont. You are just helping to drag down modding and are suffering from delusions of grandeur.

And just because I do not agree with you and entertain your greedy dreams does not make me a troll.

Ghatto wrote: What makes you think sites like this will survive should big business actually succeed in turning out paid mods?

There will always be games with free modding.

[j0hnicus]

Maybe you should approach this from the angle of asking Bethesda what you could do to make it so Bethesda IS okay with using Patreon/Flattr or something similar? In other words, negotiate a portion of donations made to nexus modders going to Bethesda.

[Lisnpuppy]

 

In response to post #28671324.

 

 

 

Lisnpuppy wrote:

Here is what I believe and this is not my thoughts or wishes but what we know.

Mods will be monetized. That will be done through Beth's own new and shiny site as they want the piece of the pie. it will not be donations-make no mistake. The donation system here at the Nexus is different and separate from the Beth.net. Will they still allow donations after that time? We don't know. Will Beth get involved in pricing? Again, we don't know. Will Beth or anyone be accountable for mod quality? We do not know. If the mod is freely shared there is really no expectations on anyone's part beyond release. If you may for something, regardless of how minimal the amount...then having standards are nice.

Will Beth allow for The Nexus and free modding to continue-I think yes to a point. I believe if you release a mod there, for the money, you can not go and put it up free elsewhere. If you want to share it free, I don't think they will stop that...at least not in the foreseeable future.

Will Beth allow modders to have things like the Patreon? I doubt it, again this is about making money.

As for the entire question of should modders get paid, want to be paid, are they evil-succubus worshiping people if they do...

I know how hard it is to make any kind of mod at all. Just learning the necessary skills takes time and sometimes money. Being of the staff side of this place I have see exactly how the mod authors are often treated about their mods. As to how good they are, what they "should" have done, the "hey bro, make it exactly like I say and I might toss you an endoresement."

I think of it like this, it would be nice if this stayed free forever-but it isn't going to and I am shocked it lasted so long. But mods are a bit of an art form. Like being able to paint or draw or whatever. Maybe you don't have a "job" doing this-it is a hobby. People offer you the ability to get a bit of money for doing some work. Then maybe you can put your painting in your friend's craft store to sell with a few bucks going their way. Its a bit of cash but nothing to live on. Maybe you still do some free stuff for friends. Still today ever little dollar helps, right?

Will I be able to afford the amount of mods I currently have-I very much doubt it. I can't afford a great many things but I don;t abuse people for trying to make money off their talent. Just because I maybe would not or so-and-so doesn't, I won't begrudge them one damn dime. Everyone will have to decide for themselves what they can or can not accept.

Regardless I won't call mod authors out for it. I won't think of them as less for it, or more for it either. It just IS. It will happen and there are just not enough folks against it to do that anyway. Add to the console modding and there is already a mindset there for buying things and microtransactions. If all the PC people stopped playing it really wouldn't make Beth loose much sleep-and why is that? Because the people that decide such things are trying to make money. That is why paid modding will happen. Not becuase Beth wants to do a good-deed to modders. Not because they want to screw over the little man. It is how capitalism works. You see a need, you provide that need and make money to go do other fun things with.

The only thing all these conversations of who is right and wrong and the how dare you-the only thing they are doing is making modding a whole less fun. I am not going to live someone's life and tell them what to do. I got three kids for that *har!* If you don't want to participate in paid modding then don't, you don't want to pay for mods, then don't. You want to put free mods out-then do and awesome. But stop behaving worse that bossy little children who think they know what motivates people or thinks they know how it all should work and demands that it be thus. Have a bit of decorum and kindness. If you can't say something nice then just don't say anything.

Sorry brah, but while I respect your opinion and your well-constructed post - I'm still gonna be critical of stuff I don't agree with. If we all just stayed silent on negative change then we'd all just get steamrolled. I mean think about it man: if I like Skyrim mods and enjoy coming to the website every day seeing what amazing new things people have made, appreciating the community built here around sharing and helping each other to all build their own personal perfect version of Skyrim, why would I want to see that change for the worse? Why wouldn't I show my disappointment, or provide my criticism for broken systems?

Yeah I don't have to be abusive to the modders, a lot of people are assholes, and a lot more were just full-on seeing red. I do think most people agree that modders were not the bad guys here, but alas - this event required them to be willful participants in something some people would love and others would hate.

 

If this whole controversy didn't begin then there'd be no fighting. Bethesda and Valve built the ring and put the money in the middle.

 

 

Well..1st I am not a "brah". I am female, hear me roar. yes I am like the unicorn and fairies-a real female on the internet. lol

 

That aside if you disagree by all means, fight the good fight. I don't think you will stand much chance but have at it. I don't have issue with that. What I have issue with is the pure venom on either side of this where modders who would may take advantage of what Beth offers is a snake and people that disagree with that are morons. If I had a magic wand I would make it so it was beautiful and free and all modders had enough money from other things so they did not have to or even want to change it. I would make capitalist more compassionate and all be gamers slobbering over the wonderful mods and all games would be made perfect from the start.

 

Will I continue to buy Beth games (or anyone) who go where I have personally drawn my line in the sand? Maybe not.

 

My exception when I said if you can not say anything nice spoke to this-not the disagreement itself (though this thread is really off topic at this point.)

 

Some folks don't try to say the good or bad of this, they just call others that disagree names. Construct a good argument, talk about what other companies do or don't do, industry standards, where paid content works and where it does not. Don't say folks are greedy for taking one path and put others up on a pedestal that do not. I fail to understand why people get out the pitchforks on something like this or anything else. One can present a compelling argument and agree to disagree without any name calling, personal insults or making wide generalizations on things of which they can not know (and I am talking to the thread at whole here not individuals.)

 

The Nexus has had donations in place for YEARS. This isn't new. The new is trying to see how people could more easily donate. There are very strict rules in place as Robin said, and if a file is discovered/reported that goes against said rules then the moderation team will act accordingly. It is however only by Beth's grace that the donations are allowed at all-because they used to not be.

 

So I prepare myself for the future. I know when it comes it will likely be a hot mess. I don't have to have Fallout 4 immediately or even immediately when the GECK comes. I got a jar of change I am filling up for mods that I may wish to buy or to authors to whom I wish to donate. If I can't afford something..so be it.

 

I also think it would be more productive to discuss that paid modding will happen and how Beth can do it RIGHT this time. Instead of saying it is evil and trying to beat it away with a stick-what would be the best way to handle it. Come up with good, supported discussion on that-and maybe they will take notice. Continuing to throw out the baby with the bathwater probably won't do much good on either side.

[Ghatto]

In response to post #28677409.

Lisnpuppy wrote:

 

In response to post #28671324.

Lisnpuppy wrote:

Here is what I believe and this is not my thoughts or wishes but what we know.

Mods will be monetized. That will be done through Beth's own new and shiny site as they want the piece of the pie. it will not be donations-make no mistake. The donation system here at the Nexus is different and separate from the Beth.net. Will they still allow donations after that time? We don't know. Will Beth get involved in pricing? Again, we don't know. Will Beth or anyone be accountable for mod quality? We do not know. If the mod is freely shared there is really no expectations on anyone's part beyond release. If you may for something, regardless of how minimal the amount...then having standards are nice.

Will Beth allow for The Nexus and free modding to continue-I think yes to a point. I believe if you release a mod there, for the money, you can not go and put it up free elsewhere. If you want to share it free, I don't think they will stop that...at least not in the foreseeable future.

Will Beth allow modders to have things like the Patreon? I doubt it, again this is about making money.

As for the entire question of should modders get paid, want to be paid, are they evil-succubus worshiping people if they do...

I know how hard it is to make any kind of mod at all. Just learning the necessary skills takes time and sometimes money. Being of the staff side of this place I have see exactly how the mod authors are often treated about their mods. As to how good they are, what they "should" have done, the "hey bro, make it exactly like I say and I might toss you an endoresement."

I think of it like this, it would be nice if this stayed free forever-but it isn't going to and I am shocked it lasted so long. But mods are a bit of an art form. Like being able to paint or draw or whatever. Maybe you don't have a "job" doing this-it is a hobby. People offer you the ability to get a bit of money for doing some work. Then maybe you can put your painting in your friend's craft store to sell with a few bucks going their way. Its a bit of cash but nothing to live on. Maybe you still do some free stuff for friends. Still today ever little dollar helps, right?

Will I be able to afford the amount of mods I currently have-I very much doubt it. I can't afford a great many things but I don;t abuse people for trying to make money off their talent. Just because I maybe would not or so-and-so doesn't, I won't begrudge them one damn dime. Everyone will have to decide for themselves what they can or can not accept.

Regardless I won't call mod authors out for it. I won't think of them as less for it, or more for it either. It just IS. It will happen and there are just not enough folks against it to do that anyway. Add to the console modding and there is already a mindset there for buying things and microtransactions. If all the PC people stopped playing it really wouldn't make Beth loose much sleep-and why is that? Because the people that decide such things are trying to make money. That is why paid modding will happen. Not becuase Beth wants to do a good-deed to modders. Not because they want to screw over the little man. It is how capitalism works. You see a need, you provide that need and make money to go do other fun things with.

The only thing all these conversations of who is right and wrong and the how dare you-the only thing they are doing is making modding a whole less fun. I am not going to live someone's life and tell them what to do. I got three kids for that *har!* If you don't want to participate in paid modding then don't, you don't want to pay for mods, then don't. You want to put free mods out-then do and awesome. But stop behaving worse that bossy little children who think they know what motivates people or thinks they know how it all should work and demands that it be thus. Have a bit of decorum and kindness. If you can't say something nice then just don't say anything.

Sorry brah, but while I respect your opinion and your well-constructed post - I'm still gonna be critical of stuff I don't agree with. If we all just stayed silent on negative change then we'd all just get steamrolled. I mean think about it man: if I like Skyrim mods and enjoy coming to the website every day seeing what amazing new things people have made, appreciating the community built here around sharing and helping each other to all build their own personal perfect version of Skyrim, why would I want to see that change for the worse? Why wouldn't I show my disappointment, or provide my criticism for broken systems?
Yeah I don't have to be abusive to the modders, a lot of people are assholes, and a lot more were just full-on seeing red. I do think most people agree that modders were not the bad guys here, but alas - this event required them to be willful participants in something some people would love and others would hate.

If this whole controversy didn't begin then there'd be no fighting. Bethesda and Valve built the ring and put the money in the middle.

 

 

Well..1st I am not a "brah". I am female, hear me roar. yes I am like the unicorn and fairies-a real female on the internet. lol

 

That aside if you disagree by all means, fight the good fight. I don't think you will stand much chance but have at it. I don't have issue with that. What I have issue with is the pure venom on either side of this where modders who would may take advantage of what Beth offers is a snake and people that disagree with that are morons. If I had a magic wand I would make it so it was beautiful and free and all modders had enough money from other things so they did not have to or even want to change it. I would make capitalist more compassionate and all be gamers slobbering over the wonderful mods and all games would be made perfect from the start.

 

Will I continue to buy Beth games (or anyone) who go where I have personally drawn my line in the sand? Maybe not.

 

My exception when I said if you can not say anything nice spoke to this-not the disagreement itself (though this thread is really off topic at this point.)

 

Some folks don't try to say the good or bad of this, they just call others that disagree names. Construct a good argument, talk about what other companies do or don't do, industry standards, where paid content works and where it does not. Don't say folks are greedy for taking one path and put others up on a pedestal that do not. I fail to understand why people get out the pitchforks on something like this or anything else. One can present a compelling argument and agree to disagree without any name calling, personal insults or making wide generalizations on things of which they can not know (and I am talking to the thread at whole here not individuals.)

 

The Nexus has had donations in place for YEARS. This isn't new. The new is trying to see how people could more easily donate. There are very strict rules in place as Robin said, and if a file is discovered/reported that goes against said rules then the moderation team will act accordingly. It is however only by Beth's grace that the donations are allowed at all-because they used to not be.

 

So I prepare myself for the future. I know when it comes it will likely be a hot mess. I don't have to have Fallout 4 immediately or even immediately when the GECK comes. I got a jar of change I am filling up for mods that I may wish to buy or to authors to whom I wish to donate. If I can't afford something..so be it.

 

I also think it would be more productive to discuss that paid modding will happen and how Beth can do it RIGHT this time. Instead of saying it is evil and trying to beat it away with a stick-what would be the best way to handle it. Come up with good, supported discussion on that-and maybe they will take notice. Continuing to throw out the baby with the bathwater probably won't do much good on either side.

Haha. Sorry about the colloquial generalism.

I do agree that the abuse and vitriol isn't required. I suppose I'm just not surprised it's there, especially since everybodies actions end up communicating an ideology that may or may not be their true attitude or opinion, yet there's nothing else to attack if people have been tripped into raging bull mode (super easy on the Internet).

And yeah I get that I'm some kind of fuddy-duddy for refusing to get with the times and accept that a mod-shop is coming. The thing is though, how can I productively discuss how best to do a mod-shop when I simply don't want it to happen?

[Ghatto]

In response to post #28663749. #28664219, #28665004, #28665334, #28675154, #28676099 are all replies on the same post.

axonis wrote: Many people here don't seem to get it. This isn't a discussion about premium modding. This is coming, whether they like it or not. This is a discussion about helping the Nexus keep AAA modders here. So, if you feel that you owe something to Dark0ne and the rest, then give them your support by

1) Shutting up your drivel against creators who want to sell their products.
2) Try to think of ways to keep those creators happy by flowing donations.
3) Donate, if you can.

MrJoseCuervo wrote: Greedy modders can take a hike. If they want to try and make a living modding good luck with that because it will not happen.

Real modders will continue to make mods and get exposure for their talents.

Mods are not a requirement. If you want to spend hours working on something then attempt to charge for it, then hardly anyone will see your work or it will just pirated from you. You are just peeing into the wind.

Galadreal wrote: Wow, you just totally missed the point of the previous comment, didn't you? I mean seriously, I have seen your other posts on here, and I can only guess that you are just here for the trolling. And while I think everyone is allowed to their opinions, this is not a place for trolls. Please remove your hands from the keyboard unless you actually have something constructive to contribute.

Oh, wait, I'm sorry, you don't contribute anything, you don't have any mods that you share with people, and you only have 26 posts, most of which I think are on this thread. So yeah...I don't actually care what you have to say.

Edited: to try to be less angry...and FAILED. I am still angry.

MrJoseCuervo wrote: I see, you don't care about the people who use your content.

That is obvious since you want to join the corporate goons and destroy modding as we know it with the hopes of getting money.

Lets see what mods you have done.

One adds more food to Inn keepers inventory.

The other adds more beds to homes

Your final mod add a general stores chest to certain location.

Hardly anything ground breaking or original. Do you think you would make money with that?

No you wont. You are just helping to drag down modding and are suffering from delusions of grandeur.

And just because I do not agree with you and entertain your greedy dreams does not make me a troll.

Ghatto wrote: What makes you think sites like this will survive should big business actually succeed in turning out paid mods?

Zaldiir wrote: There will always be games with free modding.

True. That does however just throw away criticism of the games that don't.

[sergeizismann]

Well, i don't get the whole thing, but since i'm a Pirate (If you know what i mean), it's better to waste my money for mod makers and for this amazing project!
Gonna read some stuff to get how to donate some coins, and Thx you, Nexusmods and all amazing mod makers!!!

 

User banned for piracy. Micalov

[bethjunkie]

In response to post #28663749. #28664219, #28665004, #28665334, #28675154, #28676099, #28680064 are all replies on the same post.

axonis wrote: Many people here don't seem to get it. This isn't a discussion about premium modding. This is coming, whether they like it or not. This is a discussion about helping the Nexus keep AAA modders here. So, if you feel that you owe something to Dark0ne and the rest, then give them your support by

1) Shutting up your drivel against creators who want to sell their products.
2) Try to think of ways to keep those creators happy by flowing donations.
3) Donate, if you can.

MrJoseCuervo wrote: Greedy modders can take a hike. If they want to try and make a living modding good luck with that because it will not happen.

Real modders will continue to make mods and get exposure for their talents.

Mods are not a requirement. If you want to spend hours working on something then attempt to charge for it, then hardly anyone will see your work or it will just pirated from you. You are just peeing into the wind.

Galadreal wrote: Wow, you just totally missed the point of the previous comment, didn't you? I mean seriously, I have seen your other posts on here, and I can only guess that you are just here for the trolling. And while I think everyone is allowed to their opinions, this is not a place for trolls. Please remove your hands from the keyboard unless you actually have something constructive to contribute.

Oh, wait, I'm sorry, you don't contribute anything, you don't have any mods that you share with people, and you only have 26 posts, most of which I think are on this thread. So yeah...I don't actually care what you have to say.

Edited: to try to be less angry...and FAILED. I am still angry.

MrJoseCuervo wrote: I see, you don't care about the people who use your content.

That is obvious since you want to join the corporate goons and destroy modding as we know it with the hopes of getting money.

Lets see what mods you have done.

One adds more food to Inn keepers inventory.

The other adds more beds to homes

Your final mod add a general stores chest to certain location.

Hardly anything ground breaking or original. Do you think you would make money with that?

No you wont. You are just helping to drag down modding and are suffering from delusions of grandeur.

And just because I do not agree with you and entertain your greedy dreams does not make me a troll.

Ghatto wrote: What makes you think sites like this will survive should big business actually succeed in turning out paid mods?

Zaldiir wrote: There will always be games with free modding.

Ghatto wrote: True. That does however just throw away criticism of the games that don't.

Paid modding doesn't have to happen. Bethesda cannot sell what modders don't make. If the only way to share mods is by swapping cash through bethesda.net then I will not mod for Fallout 4.
I am not delusional enough to think my few thousand downloads for old games makes a difference in the grand scheme of things but if everyone who felt similarly did the same it might. Personally I feel there's a better chance at getting a third season of Jericho by flooding CBS with truckloads of nuts again than there is staving off paid mods permanently because of the damage the first go-round did to the community.

[CandyGrl24]

Ok, let's talk frankly. 70 percent of all existing today mods are rubbish (especially for Skyrim). Why? Because people, who can create a good product, do not want to work for free. Why should they?

Just because you want it? Open your eyes, guys.

 

About ideas... We can not sell mods, but we can sell models — it is our right and nobody can prevent. Think about it.