Why we can't use Patreon, and talking about donations and doing more to support mod authors

[bben46]

A heads up to those who do use Patreon. Their database was hacked yesterday. :pinch:

Source: http://arstechnica.com/security/2015/10/gigabytes-of-user-data-from-hack-of-patreon-donations-site-dumped-online/

Be sure to change any passwords.

[fl3nxs2011]

is mod an orignal art or not? personally, i wouldn't almost think so when looking over all mods. because there are a lot of the diverted textures, diverted meshes, diverted bone skeletons, fansub mods and adult mods. and those mods have been certainly raised up the game's sales, and name values itself for these decades. Thus, the strained and restricted conception as an orignal art, would involve the harmful things for the game's expression and mod's itself in future.

 

when it comes to the fansub mods, they have many problems of the copyright and patent material things, as the paid mods. if TTIP (europe: Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership) and TPP (asia: Trans Pasific Partnership) have come to an agreement, many country's laws of copyright would be widely changed more more strictly, and it would affect too bad for the recent grown mod communities and in future, i thought.

 

please investigate TTIP (europe), and TPP (asia) for yourself, if you are a mod fan and considering about it. you'd soon understand that the easing of restrictions are not good thing for most civilians in each country, if you see the Michael Moore's movie "Capitalism: a love story" and "SiCKO", which are well drawing the tragic of USA's pitiful civilians as the result of NAFTA, oligopoly and globalism by multinational corporations.

 

i don't want see the ruins of the mod's community, after being invoked the strict regulation law against the recent many and free mods communities, would be caused by these monetisation mods things.

 

the paid mods would be involved other compatiblity problems of the DRM (Digital Rights Management) systems, and bring about the continuous conflicts of the many arguments each modders.

(well, please glance the price of the licenses about each game develop engines, then you'd understand why some modders are against the paid mods, and you'd see the dangerous factors when gotten sued to hell).

Edited October 2, 2015 by fl3nxs2011

[sunshinenbrick]

I think Bethesda is not going to push for paid mods in Fallout 4.

 

http://www.idigitaltimes.com/bethesda-plans-revisit-skyrim-paid-mods-after-fallout-4-459131

http://kotaku.com/fallout-4-devs-have-no-plans-for-paid-mods-1712305902

 

Yeah, because if they say that Fallout 4 will have paid mods nobody will pre-purchase Fallout 4. But I bet they will try again in the future. Probably after Fallout 4 has exhausted its "hype" and after Fallout 4's modding community is big enough. Hopefully we could beat them then.

 

Very interesting! But they need to reconsider their cut or I personally will just see it as their own modding/creative spirit having been consumed by arrogance and greed.

 

As the industry expands and becomes more diverse and dynamic I think their argument for it:

 

"Our belief is, 'We made the game, we made the game you're making a thing for.' So just like anything else, there is some kind of involvement that we're going to have in that,"

 

...will become more contentious. I mean we already have to pay for the room in which to use the computer, software and internet connection in order to enter 'their world'. What about the fact that games become old and out-dated and the support is shut down?

 

It's not like they invented gaming and modding... they may have made it popular but let's not get carried away here. If anything is going to cause problems, if not the market, then the second article's allusion to other companies strikes a cord. Let us not forget one usually has to also enter the 'world' of Microsoft, Gamebryo or Havok as well (ah.. beginning to sound like Oblivion already?!)

 

Of course all this may be trumped if they banded together and claim that just because they exist, we are being born into 'their' world.

 

Tsk... but the more one thinks about it the more likely it will be - giant factories with modders in production lines making things they could never afford for a general public that probably don't even know they exist.

 

What was that? Its like that already? OMG! Vogans!

[fl3nxs2011]

In response to post #29173369.

BlackKnightss wrote: I think Bethesda is not going to push for paid mods in Fallout 4.

http://www.idigitaltimes.com/bethesda-plans-revisit-skyrim-paid-mods-after-fallout-4-459131
http://kotaku.com/fallout-4-devs-have-no-plans-for-paid-mods-1712305902

Yeah, because if they say that Fallout 4 will have paid mods nobody will pre-purchase Fallout 4. But I bet they will try again in the future. Probably after Fallout 4 has exhausted its "hype" and after Fallout 4's modding community is big enough. Hopefully we could beat them then.

good reports, thanks :) surely, Bethesda's mod sales in steam seemed also very negligible.
"Even this weekend, when Skyrim was free for all, mod sales represented less than 1% of our Steam revenue."
-- from www.bethblog.com/2015/04/27/why-were-trying-paid-skyrim-mods-on-steam/

and more, somewhat with using the spiteful mods would be prospected also in furtuer, like the TES4:Oblivion's rating penalty by ESRB in 2006;

"The Topless Mod debuted on the Oblivion Source fansite in March 2006,"
"to 'protect our innocent population from seeing those evil dirty things 50% of them possess personally anyways."
"Though the Topless Mod didn't change anything but textures on female NPCs"
-- from www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/issues/issue_101/561-The-Breasts-That-Broke-The-Game/

and, the radical criticism from the goverment against the videogame's expression with using the Sandy Hook very strange incident in December 2012.

i thought that the paid mods would produse many troubles, after all... Edited October 2, 2015 by fl3nxs2011

[sunshinenbrick]

 

Let us not forget one usually has to also enter the 'world' of Microsoft, Gamebryo or Havok as well (ah.. beginning to sound like Oblivion already?!)

 

Of course all this may be trumped if they banded together and claim that just because they exist, we are being born into 'their' world.

 

Tsk... but the more one thinks about it the more likely it will be - giant factories with modders in production lines making things they could never afford for a general public that probably don't even know they exist.

 

Then I read this.

[jaxtax1]

In response to post #28557029.

icecreamassassin wrote: I had suggested this in the original discussion thread awhile back and I'll suggest it again. Convert the PayPal Donation button to a PayPal recurring donation button:

https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/get-started/create-recurring-donation-button

This would mirror the concept of sustained support that a patronage type site would offer, while still maintaining adherence to Bethesda's endorsement of donations as the money is not geared to specific projects like patronage sites are. It's a very simple and clear divide and literally the only different between what Nexus is doing now and this concept is that it gives the option for users to set their donation to automatically repeat. They can also still set it as a one time donation.

Secondly giving mod authors the ok to place a small Nexus provided narrow banner bar or small colorful donation link somewhere in their description page (which some authors are already doing BTW), after the main description of the mod perhaps, and/or to allow authors to set up a forum thread in their forum category to talk about donations would be a nice thing. We wouldn't even need a dedicated button for donation talk. Having it there would not be intrusive as the user would have to go into the forum tab and then into the forum topic itself, so it would be a destination spot rather than taking up prime real estate and visibility.

Look, I'm just a slob user who hasn't a clue about modding, and doesn't mind paying for content. I like capitalism, and think creatve minds should be rewarded. However, the current donationsystem put's the cart before the horse. The donation request should come at the endorsement point. Some mods have crashed my system. Others offer nothing I can't o as well or better with the console. While others, like follower commentary overhaul, and Frost Fall are homeruns. Currently, you're asked to pick the reward before seeing the product. It's a bit like paying for the car before the test drive.

[sunshinenbrick]

 

In response to post #28557029.

 

 

 

icecreamassassin wrote: I had suggested this in the original discussion thread awhile back and I'll suggest it again. Convert the PayPal Donation button to a PayPal recurring donation button:

 

https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/get-started/create-recurring-donation-button

 

This would mirror the concept of sustained support that a patronage type site would offer, while still maintaining adherence to Bethesda's endorsement of donations as the money is not geared to specific projects like patronage sites are. It's a very simple and clear divide and literally the only different between what Nexus is doing now and this concept is that it gives the option for users to set their donation to automatically repeat. They can also still set it as a one time donation.

 

Secondly giving mod authors the ok to place a small Nexus provided narrow banner bar or small colorful donation link somewhere in their description page (which some authors are already doing BTW), after the main description of the mod perhaps, and/or to allow authors to set up a forum thread in their forum category to talk about donations would be a nice thing. We wouldn't even need a dedicated button for donation talk. Having it there would not be intrusive as the user would have to go into the forum tab and then into the forum topic itself, so it would be a destination spot rather than taking up prime real estate and visibility.

Look, I'm just a slob user who hasn't a clue about modding, and doesn't mind paying for content. I like capitalism, and think creatve minds should be rewarded. However, the current donationsystem put's the cart before the horse. The donation request should come at the endorsement point. Some mods have crashed my system. Others offer nothing I can't o as well or better with the console. While others, like follower commentary overhaul, and Frost Fall are homeruns. Currently, you're asked to pick the reward before seeing the product. It's a bit like paying for the car before the test drive.

 

 

As it is still voluntary, I'd say it still allows you to see if you like the modders work enough first before you donate.

 

But I hear what you are saying about 'try before you buy' which is perhaps rather an issue with the wider markets. I usually used to rent things before choosing to buy them, it allows one to find out what is just a heavily marketed flop and what has the replay value to warrant the price. Even free-market economics is based on this quite simple idea.

 

Of course we all know what happened to renting... now we just have biased recommendations for anything and everything **UNMISSABLE** **ABSOLUTELY AMAZING** **TOTALLY WORTH IT**

 

At the moment it is still possible to get refunds, but for how long will that still be in real money and not stolen through 'wallet points'...

[hooppenn]

If I am not making a Mistake, I thought modding was first started as hobbies for people who wanted to give to others joy. Now a few years later here comes Some people who want money for some mods that are never up-dated or fixed, with and along with Other mods that are kept up-dated. Now here, if you want to use my mod, you have to use this other modders mod first. So now to enjoy one mad you need another mod, whom may never fixed or kept it updated. Now here is another problem. Being retired and living on a budget in a foreign Country with no increase in retirement funds at all, No credit cards, no paypal, no checking book in this country, how is one suppose to donate if on a budget that has not increased in over 4 years but prices of food and gas keep going up each year ? Would I like to donate ? Well of course, with what I could. So if Nexus Mods is no longer a hobby but a paid workers site, What does this make all the users of Nexus Mods ? The Employer now instead of a Community ? Most mod authors do not even fix there mods or even update them, to be compatable with mods they used to be compatable with over half the time. A lot of Mods do not even explain how to install or what the mod does or doesn't do. I have used a few mods that needed to be fixed, and asked the mod authors to fix them, after 3 months No reply from said Mod authors, and no fix . So I uninstall there mod So, should I donate to them ? When they will not even fix there mod ? Just a few things to ponder over. Thank You . Love all Modders, I think you all are super, and I Thank You All. Edited October 7, 2015 by hooppenn

[Lisnpuppy]

If I am not making a Mistake, I thought modding was first started as hobbies for people who wanted to give to others joy. Now a few years later here comes Some people who want money for some mods that are never up-dated or fixed, with and along with Other mods that are kept up-dated. Now here, if you want to use my mod, you have to use this other modders mod first. So now to enjoy one mad you need another mod, whom may never fixed or kept it updated. Now here is another problem. Being retired and living on a budget in a foreign Country with no increase in retirement funds at all, No credit cards, no paypal, no checking book in this country, how is one suppose to donate if on a budget that has not increased in over 4 years but prices of food and gas keep going up each year ? Would I like to donate ? Well of course, with what I could. So if Nexus Mods is no longer a hobby but a paid workers site, What does this make all the users of Nexus Mods ? The Employer now instead of a Community ? Most mod authors do not even fix there mods or even update them, to be compatable with mods they used to be compatable with over half the time. A lot of Mods do not even explain how to install or what the mod does or doesn't do. I have used a few mods that needed to be fixed, and asked the mod authors to fix them, after 3 months No reply from said Mod authors, and no fix . So I uninstall there mod So, should I donate to them ? When they will not even fix there mod ? Just a few things to ponder over. Thank You . Love all Modders, I think you all are super, and I Thank You All.

 

You do realize that the donation system (and donation is not mandatory and never has been) has been part of this site for several years now?

 

And donations are not tied to mods (despite there being a donate button on any of the authors pages, this is convenience.) Authors are not permitted here to fix/not fix, put out more content or anything else as a means to get donations. When you donate to a mod author that is exactly what you are doing. You are donating to them because you wish to do it, to give them a thumbs up, some coffee money, change for the bus (I say these things because I have yet to hear a mod author speak of any donation money that would do much more that these things.)

 

So lets not confuse the Nexus donation system as it currently stands and the paid modding that was rolled out (and any model which MAY roll out.) You are not donating for a mod or to a mod...you are donating to a mod author as member of this site and you are free to do or do not as this will not change anything. Mods here are free and have been since the inception of the site back in 2006. I am hopeful this shall stay the same here.

[sunshinenbrick]

 

 

is mod an orignal art or not? personally, i wouldn't almost think so when looking over all mods. because there are a lot of the diverted textures, diverted meshes, diverted bone skeletons, fansub mods and adult mods. and those mods have been certainly raised up the game's sales, and name values itself for these decades. Thus, the strained and restricted conception as an orignal art, would involve the harmful things for the game's expression and mod's itself in future.

 

when it comes to the fansub mods, they have many problems of the copyright and patent material things, as the paid mods. if TTIP (europe: Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership) and TPP (asia: Trans Pasific Partnership) have come to an agreement, many country's laws of copyright would be widely changed more more strictly, and it would affect too bad for the recent grown mod communities and in future, i thought.

 

please investigate TTIP (europe), and TPP (asia) for yourself, if you are a mod fan and considering about it. you'd soon understand that the easing of restrictions are not good thing for most civilians in each country, if you see the Michael Moore's movie "Capitalism: a love story" and "SiCKO", which are well drawing the tragic of USA's pitiful civilians as the result of NAFTA, oligopoly and globalism by multinational corporations.

 

i don't want see the ruins of the mod's community, after being invoked the strict regulation law against the recent many and free mods communities, would be caused by these monetisation mods things.

 

the paid mods would be involved other compatiblity problems of the DRM (Digital Rights Management) systems, and bring about the continuous conflicts of the many arguments each modders.

(well, please glance the price of the licenses about each game develop engines, then you'd understand why some modders are against the paid mods, and you'd see the dangerous factors when gotten sued to hell).

 

 

 

 

These trade deals are very much of public concern and they should be taken very seriously. Copyright is only a small fraction of it but perhaps brings it home to modders/artists more than anything else.

 

What scares me particularly is the Extension of Copyrights and worse still, the Retroactive Extension of Copyrights. The former meaning copyright holders own stuff for even longer and the latter means they can copyright works from the past that may not have it or are argued to infringe upon current copyrights.

 

Here is an article about it but, this really is just the tip of iceberg and such crazy deals will be passed without us knowing about unless we look.