Update on NMM version 0.60 and FAQ

[AccuSync50]

All those who only are complaining, step forward and do better. These people give their time and effort to this site and the NMM, and all you do is complain, try helping to correct the problem.

 

 

[GeohoundJason]

In response to post #28803344.

bben46 wrote:

Some people seem to think that profiling is the new version. Profiling is a feature of the new version, NOT the version itself. Profiling is the ability to have more than one set of mods and switch back and forth. To do that you first have to have the NMM working - THEN that becomes the first ( and at this point only) profile available. In order to have another version, you will have to create a new mod list - it may have many of the same mods, not use some, and instead use some entirely different mods. Then, you could use either profile to play - say one version of Skyrim where your character is a Bosmer archer with mods designed to enhance his skills. And the other your player is a Kajit thief, with other mods just for him. Then later, as needed you can have even more profiles for other purposes - such as just testing some new mod you think might be interesting alongside of the rest of your mod list without disturbing the profile that has your original mod list.

 

Can you use it just like the old version without the profiling? Yes, if that is what you want, using profiles is not required. But it will be there if you ever decide to use it.

 

Then it is just like the old version but has this new profiling? - No. in order to get profiling ( and some other things that will be coming in the future) a major redesign of some of the program was needed. So it is not just like the old version. And, nearly all of the 40,000 Alpha testers think it is better. And many probably had more mods than you.

 

My recommendation - just don't update to v0.60 yet if you really don't know what you are getting into. It really is working for a lot of users though - for some reason, the people that it works for are not posting how wonderful it is because it just worked for them, and they are too busy playing the games. :thumbsup:

Thank you. I downloaded the update because I wanted to help out a bit with it(knowing full well my game could be broken which did unfortunately happen and I had to go in and fix it), and I do think it's interesting what's been done. Though unfortunately there are people who see "Ooh new version, must download because it must give new features and no drawbacks!" That isn't the case, and that's why people unfortunately are whining and spewing vitriol. They don't know how to read.

Anyways, thanks for clarifying for those unsure of what it is.

[Annafire33]

In response to post #28799344. #28799979, #28801029, #28801234, #28802034, #28802934 are all replies on the same post.

Vyxenne wrote:

Dear Dark One:

 

Sometimes, I think it is difficult to see the forest because all the trees are in the way. I just read your post above, and would like to offer you a different perspective- MY perspective as a long-time Nexus fan (I have been using my husband's account for years and only recently established my own Nexus account.)

 

You said you were surprised that so many people just blindly accepted the NMM upgrade. This is because over the years, NMM has been largely stable and trouble-free, and a tremendous help to us in managing our mods- and much more user-friendly than MO. Each upgrade has been an improvement over the previous version, and we have received upgrades quite frequently. In other words, based on years of good releases, we trusted you, your expertise and your "product." Based on that trust, when NMM said an upgrade was available, we didn't think twice: click, click, clicketty-click. The outrage now is largely because you betrayed our trust with NMM 0.6.

 

You said that there were warnings in the new version that should have tipped us off that this upgrade was dangerous (my paraphrasing). You're exactly right: the warnings were IN THE NEW VERSION and came only after it was far too late to back out of the upgrade- our Skyrim was already bricked by the time we got the warnings. As someone posted in the Boo thread, the warnings are on the inside of the can. The only choices at that point were [No] or [Cancel] and manually install all your mods (because NMM has already trashed them) or [Yes] to continue and let NMM *try* to fix your system. Epic fail. The warning should have been BEFORE IT WAS TOO LATE TO BACK OUT AND LEAVE OUR PAINSTAKINGLY-ASSEMBLED AND NURTURED WORKING GAME INSTALLATION INTACT. However, in all fairness, even had I received clear warnings of the impending destruction in time to leave my system intact, I probably would've clicked [YES] anyway because I trusted you and never imagined you folks would unleash something so destructive on your fans and supporters. Only in hindsight did it become clear to me what I should have done. The warning should, at the very least, have been clearer about the imminent destruction and included a strong recommendation to quit NMM now and back up our entire game installation.

 

You said in the Boo thread, sarcastically, "...or you could go here [link] for help" but the "here" is undocumented, not linked to from anywhere that I can find, not returned in a Google search for "Nexus Mod Manager Support" and particularly not conspicuously linked to from within the NMM interface as far as I can see (Of course, I have never needed NMM support before, so I have not searched diligently for a support link within NMM, and based on what it just did to me, there is no way I'm going to open NMM 0.6 ever again in my lifetime.) Especially with a "potentially destructive release" like NMM 0.60 that deliberately destroys our working game installation and *hopes to* reconstruct it but has ZERO revert or undo capability, there should have been before-the-destruction warnings. On a so-called "beta" product (0.60 acted more like a pre-alpha release, but I digress), there should be a conspicuous [sUPPORT] button on the NMM Header. We are merely users. We do not spend all day, every day, dealing with The Nexus and/or Nexus Mod Manager. How are we supposed to know about hidden "support" forums when they are not conspicuously linked to from Nexus mod pages and/or the Nexus Forums pages, and not returned in Google searches using the logical search terms?

 

You seem to be complaining that nobody read the "Site News." Where is that? Even when you mentioned it in your post here, you did not provide a link to it. There is no [sITE NEWS] button on this page's header frame, nor is there a "Site News" sticky at http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?. Again, we don't spend all day every day here, and don't know where to go for what unless someone who DOES spend all day every day here helps us by providing conspicuous links.

 

So, half a day after the rogue NMM update acted like malware and destroyed my Skyrim installation with no way to opt out of it until it was already too late and no revert or undo function whatsoever, I STILL do not know how to reach the alleged page that details a recovery process. All I know for sure is that you think these things should be obvious to your users and supporters- but they are not only not obvious, they seem to have been hidden by design- otherwise there would be conspicuous links to them everywhere on the Nexus.

 

Hope this helps clear up some of your bafflement regarding the reasons for the uproar, confusion and outrage resulting from the NMM 0.6 disaster. I, personally, feel blindsided and betrayed by an old friend. It would really be great if you could stop developing NMM for a few days and write a recovery tool to help those of us whose games you trashed revert to the pre-NMM 0.60 condition.

Zettadude wrote: This deserves attention. Exactly how I feel.

Though I'm not completely angry, nor am I going to stop using NMM 0.6, I feel like you summed up what a lot of people are feeling here, including me. Thank you for wording it in a way that is not only attention-grabbing, but also informative.

toonamove wrote: I agreed totally with you and your words and feelings.

Yes a "recovery tool" can be really useful for fixing and helping everyone have their game mess up after the last NMM version update.

I can suggest to adding on the future versions a button for "importing" old NMM versions settings and mods dirs with another button for converting to the new NMM system after have imported users configs, but without touching games dirs or uninstalling mods.

Also adding a automatic backup system before the new installed version is started or starting to made any kind of changes, sounds very necessary, for avoid this kind of mess for everyone, and preserve every users modded games.

Toonamove

Morandone wrote: Yup, my feeelings exactly. Trying to put my old Mods back in the corrupted install. Wipe out all the hardlinks first (or whatever they're called) just to be able to write the data of the wiped out mods back, because explorer hangs when trying to replace them.

A warning for backing up the Skyrim-install befor installing NMM would have been nice and helpful.

GothikaGeist wrote: Wasn't the big red warning in the INSTALLER of NMM 0.60.0? You definitely had the chance to avoid this and be informed as to what it does. Regardless, I still think a TES5Edit-type pop-up prompt with a timer should force you to at least acknowledge the fact that 0.60.0 could potentially break your entire setup.

unhot wrote: Well said ... several hours later and all is not as it was and rather than spending some time relaxing in the wasteland I'm off to something else.

Very disappointed.

I would also like to add, when a product has been relatively stable and trust worthy, you assume warnings like that, are for the worst case, this will almost never happen type of deal. NOT a this will happen thing. I also agree that the warning should have been the first thing to pop up to give people a chance to say, "hey, i'm not gonna do that" instead of locking us into it with no return. I really hope people pay attention to this post that Vyxenne wrote, because it really speaks for the average user who doesn't work on something all day everyday. Its like, if your writing a story, you know exactly whats going on, because you made it and you work with it all the time, so you take short cuts because you figure its obvious whats happening. When in reality, someone will come along and be like, "what?" I'll leave it there.

[Behelit79]

In response to post #28799344. #28799979, #28801029, #28801234, #28802034, #28802934, #28804459 are all replies on the same post.

Vyxenne wrote:

Dear Dark One:

 

Sometimes, I think it is difficult to see the forest because all the trees are in the way. I just read your post above, and would like to offer you a different perspective- MY perspective as a long-time Nexus fan (I have been using my husband's account for years and only recently established my own Nexus account.)

 

You said you were surprised that so many people just blindly accepted the NMM upgrade. This is because over the years, NMM has been largely stable and trouble-free, and a tremendous help to us in managing our mods- and much more user-friendly than MO. Each upgrade has been an improvement over the previous version, and we have received upgrades quite frequently. In other words, based on years of good releases, we trusted you, your expertise and your "product." Based on that trust, when NMM said an upgrade was available, we didn't think twice: click, click, clicketty-click. The outrage now is largely because you betrayed our trust with NMM 0.6.

 

You said that there were warnings in the new version that should have tipped us off that this upgrade was dangerous (my paraphrasing). You're exactly right: the warnings were IN THE NEW VERSION and came only after it was far too late to back out of the upgrade- our Skyrim was already bricked by the time we got the warnings. As someone posted in the Boo thread, the warnings are on the inside of the can. The only choices at that point were [No] or [Cancel] and manually install all your mods (because NMM has already trashed them) or [Yes] to continue and let NMM *try* to fix your system. Epic fail. The warning should have been BEFORE IT WAS TOO LATE TO BACK OUT AND LEAVE OUR PAINSTAKINGLY-ASSEMBLED AND NURTURED WORKING GAME INSTALLATION INTACT. However, in all fairness, even had I received clear warnings of the impending destruction in time to leave my system intact, I probably would've clicked [YES] anyway because I trusted you and never imagined you folks would unleash something so destructive on your fans and supporters. Only in hindsight did it become clear to me what I should have done. The warning should, at the very least, have been clearer about the imminent destruction and included a strong recommendation to quit NMM now and back up our entire game installation.

 

You said in the Boo thread, sarcastically, "...or you could go here [link] for help" but the "here" is undocumented, not linked to from anywhere that I can find, not returned in a Google search for "Nexus Mod Manager Support" and particularly not conspicuously linked to from within the NMM interface as far as I can see (Of course, I have never needed NMM support before, so I have not searched diligently for a support link within NMM, and based on what it just did to me, there is no way I'm going to open NMM 0.6 ever again in my lifetime.) Especially with a "potentially destructive release" like NMM 0.60 that deliberately destroys our working game installation and *hopes to* reconstruct it but has ZERO revert or undo capability, there should have been before-the-destruction warnings. On a so-called "beta" product (0.60 acted more like a pre-alpha release, but I digress), there should be a conspicuous [sUPPORT] button on the NMM Header. We are merely users. We do not spend all day, every day, dealing with The Nexus and/or Nexus Mod Manager. How are we supposed to know about hidden "support" forums when they are not conspicuously linked to from Nexus mod pages and/or the Nexus Forums pages, and not returned in Google searches using the logical search terms?

 

You seem to be complaining that nobody read the "Site News." Where is that? Even when you mentioned it in your post here, you did not provide a link to it. There is no [sITE NEWS] button on this page's header frame, nor is there a "Site News" sticky at http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?. Again, we don't spend all day every day here, and don't know where to go for what unless someone who DOES spend all day every day here helps us by providing conspicuous links.

 

So, half a day after the rogue NMM update acted like malware and destroyed my Skyrim installation with no way to opt out of it until it was already too late and no revert or undo function whatsoever, I STILL do not know how to reach the alleged page that details a recovery process. All I know for sure is that you think these things should be obvious to your users and supporters- but they are not only not obvious, they seem to have been hidden by design- otherwise there would be conspicuous links to them everywhere on the Nexus.

 

Hope this helps clear up some of your bafflement regarding the reasons for the uproar, confusion and outrage resulting from the NMM 0.6 disaster. I, personally, feel blindsided and betrayed by an old friend. It would really be great if you could stop developing NMM for a few days and write a recovery tool to help those of us whose games you trashed revert to the pre-NMM 0.60 condition.

Zettadude wrote: This deserves attention. Exactly how I feel.

Though I'm not completely angry, nor am I going to stop using NMM 0.6, I feel like you summed up what a lot of people are feeling here, including me. Thank you for wording it in a way that is not only attention-grabbing, but also informative.

toonamove wrote: I agreed totally with you and your words and feelings.

Yes a "recovery tool" can be really useful for fixing and helping everyone have their game mess up after the last NMM version update.

I can suggest to adding on the future versions a button for "importing" old NMM versions settings and mods dirs with another button for converting to the new NMM system after have imported users configs, but without touching games dirs or uninstalling mods.

Also adding a automatic backup system before the new installed version is started or starting to made any kind of changes, sounds very necessary, for avoid this kind of mess for everyone, and preserve every users modded games.

Toonamove

Morandone wrote: Yup, my feeelings exactly. Trying to put my old Mods back in the corrupted install. Wipe out all the hardlinks first (or whatever they're called) just to be able to write the data of the wiped out mods back, because explorer hangs when trying to replace them.

A warning for backing up the Skyrim-install befor installing NMM would have been nice and helpful.

GothikaGeist wrote: Wasn't the big red warning in the INSTALLER of NMM 0.60.0? You definitely had the chance to avoid this and be informed as to what it does. Regardless, I still think a TES5Edit-type pop-up prompt with a timer should force you to at least acknowledge the fact that 0.60.0 could potentially break your entire setup.

unhot wrote: Well said ... several hours later and all is not as it was and rather than spending some time relaxing in the wasteland I'm off to something else.

Very disappointed.

Annafire33 wrote: I would also like to add, when a product has been relatively stable and trust worthy, you assume warnings like that, are for the worst case, this will almost never happen type of deal. NOT a this will happen thing. I also agree that the warning should have been the first thing to pop up to give people a chance to say, "hey, i'm not gonna do that" instead of locking us into it with no return. I really hope people pay attention to this post that Vyxenne wrote, because it really speaks for the average user who doesn't work on something all day everyday. Its like, if your writing a story, you know exactly whats going on, because you made it and you work with it all the time, so you take short cuts because you figure its obvious whats happening. When in reality, someone will come along and be like, "what?" I'll leave it there.

Are there seriously still people not knowing that when there's a major change in a program version (0.50.x -> 0.60.x) there will surely be something important to take into account? I understand what you say about trust but, believe me, no offence, the automaton "click, click, clicketty-click" behaviour will surely have sooner or later negative consequences.

[Spacedog]

I have some basic questions that I think it would be useful for myself and others to have answers to before we take the plunge in to 0.60. Some may sound silly but my install of skyrim has lasted since release day and my character has over 400 hours invested so some clarification would be nice.

 

I have mods that have been there since before NMM even existed. What will happen to these mods during the upgrade?

 

Some larger mods have had to installed by copying the data folder in to skyrim instead of via the installer. Will these be left in place or should I uninstall them, package them up and re-install them via NMM?

 

I have several mods that are installed from other sites but are installed through NMM, will these be OK?

 

I have had to edit an error in at least 1 mod with TES5Edit (stray floating stones from Shadow of Meresis) from the most up to date version on NMM, will this be reverted during the upgrade?

 

Are there any other pitfalls we should be looking out for that we could deal with in preparation for taking the 0.60 plunge?

 

Many thanks for all your hard work.

[Di3sIrae]

I thank you for this information. I saw some people complaining about it before i could update, so i choose not to, and can't give feedbacks now, sorry. I don't know if i'll update it now, but people could understand more the two sides. The guys here are still updating NMM and trying to do the best for us, and after all these years of success, why send all the rage and hate inside you over them if you didn't even paid for it?

They could just look at that "death threats" and say 'f**k you all', but no, they'll try to fix it and give a possible stable and new - BETA - version, so everyone can update without messing with everything.

 

Thanks for everything for now, and for the guys with ruined games, i think we all are sorry for it but you can go trhough

[Dark0ne]

We have just released version 0.60.4 of NMM that has a number of fixes for bugs reported with the help of users using the bug tracker, the list includes:

 

• Fixed issue causing the migration process to be unable to reinstall some mods.
  
• Fixed issue preventing NMM from properly handling the load order for Fallout and Oblivion.
  
• Fixed issue causing the Morrowind game mode to hang while performing the mod migration.
  
• Fixed issue causing the Morrowind game mode to install files in the wrong folder.
  
• Fixed issue preventing NMM from automatically retrieve the Morrowind game path during the startup scan.
  
• Fixed issue preventing the ReadMe Manager from properly catching readme files.
  
• Fixed issue with the Backup file management.
  

 

Now waiting on some brave souls to try it.

[silfo2015]

In response to post #28797534. #28797764, #28799519, #28799834 are all replies on the same post.

silfo2015 wrote: Sorry to post this here but I don't seem to be able to use the bug tracker.

I installed version 60.3. I like having the links to LOOT, BOSS, and FNIS built in. And I think I will generally like it when all's done.

Here's what seems to be my current stumbling block: FNIS stops running with "ERROR(76): Could not find a part of the path 'c:\program files (x86)\steam\steamapps\common\Skyrim\Data\meshes\actors\character\character assets female\skeleton_female.hkx"

I looked in my files and saw the folder "character assets" is not included in the folder "character" but when I fix that and run FNIS again I get a different error message referring to the same file in another location. So, I gave up since I really don't know what I'm doing. But that's where I'm currently stopped.

Just thought I'd let you know the status over here. Thanks for the work you're doing.

aramil31 wrote: I think this new version is installing files in a different location by default, I had to manually set it to install them in the "Data" folder.

I also had to delete every mod and reinstall them from the archives because of that new file location, I was getting the same sorts of errors as you got.

Kalell wrote: @aramil31 So there is an option to switch back to installing mods directly to a games folder? That makes me feel a whole lot better. I will probably make backups of my game installs and plugin lists and give it a try now. I've been asking about this for a while and nobody had answered. Thank you for your comment, and kudos to you. =)

aramil31 wrote: When you first install the new build, it asks where it should install the mod archives and whatnot. IIRC, it's on that page.

@aramil31 Thanks! I hope what I understand is enough like what you said; I'd like this to work :)

[DuskDweller]

In response to post #28797534. #28797764, #28799519, #28799834, #28805704 are all replies on the same post.

silfo2015 wrote: Sorry to post this here but I don't seem to be able to use the bug tracker.

I installed version 60.3. I like having the links to LOOT, BOSS, and FNIS built in. And I think I will generally like it when all's done.

Here's what seems to be my current stumbling block: FNIS stops running with "ERROR(76): Could not find a part of the path 'c:\program files (x86)\steam\steamapps\common\Skyrim\Data\meshes\actors\character\character assets female\skeleton_female.hkx"

I looked in my files and saw the folder "character assets" is not included in the folder "character" but when I fix that and run FNIS again I get a different error message referring to the same file in another location. So, I gave up since I really don't know what I'm doing. But that's where I'm currently stopped.

Just thought I'd let you know the status over here. Thanks for the work you're doing.

aramil31 wrote: I think this new version is installing files in a different location by default, I had to manually set it to install them in the "Data" folder.

I also had to delete every mod and reinstall them from the archives because of that new file location, I was getting the same sorts of errors as you got.

Kalell wrote: @aramil31 So there is an option to switch back to installing mods directly to a games folder? That makes me feel a whole lot better. I will probably make backups of my game installs and plugin lists and give it a try now. I've been asking about this for a while and nobody had answered. Thank you for your comment, and kudos to you. =)

aramil31 wrote: When you first install the new build, it asks where it should install the mod archives and whatnot. IIRC, it's on that page.

silfo2015 wrote: @aramil31 Thanks! I hope what I understand is enough like what you said; I'd like this to work :)

You're not supposed to do that, and serious problems could arise if you do.

There was an issue with the migration process being unable to reinstall some mods, it should all be fixed now.
Please download the update and read here:
http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/3231824-060-missing-mod-files-after-the-migration-process/

[Morgwynn]

I'm not the kind of person to make threats but I went through allot the stages . . anger . . frustration . . denial . . depression . . drunken stupor and as I sat down by the river listening to some house of pain on my old trusty Sony Walkman, sipping on my beer and skipping rocks. I thought wow Bethesda gave me pie and the Nexus gave me ice cream and as I turned around for a moment to grab my fork a stray dog came by and took a leak on both. I suppose that's how I felt at the time but now I realize that mistakes happen and this wasn't done with malicious intent. I mean I deleted my old saved games . . . even the one I named after myself and spent hours customizing him to look as much like me as possible, the one I spent hundreds of hours playing. I guess all good things must come to an end and so I raise my flask to you and say keep on truckin.