Why do people hate Fallout 4 so much?

[mrspongeworthy]

 

I do love the way Bethesda manage to meld an RPG and a FPS extremely well.

 

 

I don't. In fact, for me, this so-called "merge" of an RPG and FPS has basically ruined the game for me. If I wanted to play an FPS I'd go play an FPS. I wanted to play an RPG and this isn't an RPG any more. It's a real shame, too, because it has (IMHO) an excellent RPG story line and a lot of excellent RPG type quests in it so far.

 

 

Well, there have always been more than one type of RPG. I love the old Baldur's Gate / IWD stuff of course, but I do feel FO3/FNV/FO4 are among the few games to come to an adequate compromise. They allow you to play as an FPS if you wish most of the time, or as a turn-based RPG most of the time. And being first-person can certainly heighten the sense of immersion (i.e. "I am this character" rather than "I am seeing this character." (Obviously I don't play FO4 in third-person.) I haven't seen anyone else manage this except Bioware in DAO. The obvious worst examples are DAII and DAI, where they took a brilliant RPG and then wedged on a frenetic combat system based around some idiot deciding the series needed a so-called"awesome button" that basically appealed to pre-teens with ADD. They had a great, exciting, detailed, and beautifully animated dual-system in DAO and then totally ruined it.

 

The GREAT thing about Bethesda games are that they can be modded. So my suggestion is just this: Mod the game. I prefer the "total stop" of the FO3 VATS myself. Take that, then figure out how to give your character basically unlimited AP so you can VATS all the time. Then treat every combat as turn-based. Now you have your turn-based RPG back. Kudos to companies supporting mods! Oh, and if that makes it too easy, just make a character with 1 END or choose not to wear the power-armor or best yet, install another mod of some kind that makes the game much more difficult. Then you can enjoy the great stories you want to enjoy.

[Boombro]

 

e been very skeptical of F4 since the beginning, but I had to admit to myself that I was wrong on most counts.

I especially liked the idea of Critical Hit being finally made into an active resource rather than being the usual lazy RNG.

On the story side Bethesda was quite brave.

They portrayed the 3 sides of politics very accurately instead of pandering, showing that they aren't bending over to lobbyists who want gaming to be uniformed to their ideology.

New Vegas - as much as I loved it gameplay-wise - built some pretty big strawman on the other side of the river, as well as closing you out of a large portion of the game should you pick the wrong side.

This doesn't happen in Fallout 4, the ending you pick has realistic outcomes, there is no sloppy "Mary Sues vs Devils" binary storyline, everyone has flaws and there is no attempt to manipulate you into one ideology.

My only real complaint is the lack of content. 130ish quests is nothing. New Vegas had I think 220ish.

NV also had more locations and way, way more weapons.

Why is this a big flaw? Because everything else we can mod in, but well-scripted quests and locations are hard to make.

Furthermore, Todd lied saying it was bigger than Skyrim and with more stuff, it's clearly not. I don't like being lied to.

Yeah I know, Todd lying is not newsworthy but still.

They did at least improve on the side quests department, every one of them is much better than Skyrim side quests. The problem they are few and short.

 

The FPS side is needed to make gun play much better. The game can still have RPG side to it in other places to balance it out.

 

Let be honest, we love the fact that Beth games can be modded. It what sold the games full price for us and made them live this long. But we should only have to mod the console limitations: npcs limit, textures, spawns, UI etc.

Edited December 5, 2015 by Boombro

[Yodhrin]

Criticizing is easy, creating is hard. If you're going to attack something, have something to present that can fix it.

 

Utter sophistry.

 

For one thing, actual critique isn't easy, it requires a deep knowledge of both the thing being critiqued and the field/genre the thing being critiqued resides in so that your criticisms are well-founded. For another, the concept that you're only allowed to hold a negative opinion of something if you're capable of fixing it yourself is colossally, hilariously, monstrously daft; if your utility supplier doesn't maintain their network properly, resulting in you losing your heating in winter and your pipes bursting, then using your line of reasoning you would have no right to form a negative opinion of that company or its network because you're not a plumber/heating engineer.

 

But of course, you know that already, everyone does unless they flunked out of nursery school, what you and a lot of other people are trying to do is defend your own decision to purchase and enjoy the game(both of which I did, by the way, I just don't feel the need to crap on people who didn't do one or both) by attributing levels of emotion("haters", "attack" etc) to people's negative views that simply isn't present, which allows you to dismiss them out of hand rather than treat their views seriously which might force you to reevaluate your own.

 

Of course, you might, maybe, perhaps be talking only and exclusively about the one or two people in every thousand who complain who actually are just irrational, insatiable babies who get their jollies crapping on the work of creative people, but somehow I doubt it.

[quadrangleste]

With modding, Skyrim can look far better than Fallout 4. But, that's mainly because modders don't have to account for a broad player base that includes outdated machines. Assuming that there aren't any surprises about the GECK, FO4 with mods should look pretty amazing soon.

 

It's not clear what RPG aspect people feel are missing. Is it that your options are kind of funneled toward the same outcome/alliances? That's a fair point. In Skyrim it felt a bit more balanced in that you could end up being a werewolf or in the brotherhood without making a deliberate effort to avoid the "main" paths. But, I still think that goes back to the point about how it looks and mods. With the GECK, it should be pretty easy for modders to re-balance quests, factions, etc. to give more options to branch into different storylines.

 

I understand having high expectations given how much money these games make. My complaint is more about time. I think that FO4 is a step forward and modding can fix the issues people have. But, we had to wait too long to get it. With the cash they are rolling in, we should have versions stepped forward this amount every year. A significantly improved if not brand new engine every other year.

[Boombro]

 

It's not clear what RPG aspect people feel are missing.

You have no idea? Really?

 

 

With modding, Skyrim can look far better than Fallout 4. Assuming that there aren't any surprises about the GECK, FO4 with mods should look pretty amazing soon.

Ummm. That is enb, textures and meshes and the GECK has nothing to do with any of those.

 

 

 

With the GECK, it should be pretty easy for modders to re-balance quests, factions, etc. to give more options to branch into different storylines. I think that FO4 is a step forward and modding can fix the issues people have.

 

The problems is that Beth should have done that already. That way people are mad.

 

 

I understand having high expectations given how much money these games make. My complaint is more about time.

It not about how much these games make at all. This game was 7 years in making. 7 years and it so shallow and empty and poorly made in many areas.

 

 

 

With the cash they are rolling in, we should have versions stepped forward this amount every year. A significantly improved if not brand new engine every other year.

It not about cash. Beth core team is tiny compared to other teams, that is pretty much the same every game. Most of it is artists. A team of 150 man and woman, while others are WAY bigger. That why the games take long and this time quests are short and lacking.

 

They need to make the team larger with better new writers, texture artists, scriptwriters etc. Not more cash.

 

Also, they are looking for new Quest Designers and User Interface Designer, hope that means someone was fired.

Edited December 5, 2015 by Boombro

[formalrevya]

The simple way of deciding whether or not is an Rp is to say

 

50 hours into my game and 50 hours into your game have our characters

Heard all the same dialogue?

Made all the same choices?

Completed all quests in exactly the same way?

 

The thing that makes a good Rp a good Rp is how well the story allows you to define your own character Through your actions and choices. If everyone can only make the same choices as everyone else, every character is the same ((builds aside)) And it's not really an Rp if every character turns out the same. you have like 1 real game changing choice in Fallout 4, and that's who to decide with. come to think of it right until the end you can complete every quest chain except for the final quest and nothing will change. That seems to be what most people are pissed about right now at least.

[Boombro]

Nah there is more.

When saving nick, you can convince the girl to go back to her parents and not enter a gun fight.

 

With the convent, you can be paid to shut up. Later on to leave them be.

 

There is some more, but they are really few.

[elfenlieds7]

The only thing i don't quite like is the lack of story-rich quests...

[Boombro]

The only thing i don't quite like is the lack of story-rich quests...

Yeah.

 

When I was doing the human error, I was like:

Woah, no quest markers?! Yes!

 

Whooa, awesome!

 

Wait that it? What?

 

I mean what happened? Are the writers shying from long complex quests, have they ran out from juice mid-way? Some quests had real great potential: Vault 81, human error, witchcraft, that non quest quarry event, most rider camps had cool back stories, all that any good writer can easily use as backbone or outline for better quests.

 

The only ones that didn't disappoint for me overall was the RR quest line, Sliver and the USS side quests. Sweet but short.

 

Quality over quantity?

 

I'm really scared about the outcome of another game Beth will make sometimes in the years to come that I really like.

Edited December 6, 2015 by Boombro

[cyberhoundMkII]

People really have balls to defend Bethesda at this point. It is the same Gamebryo engine being tortured and bandaided for 10 years, and they didn't even fix bugs from 2005. They just changed the name to Creation Engine and tweaked few things, and we are 10 years and millions of dollars later.... How do you even counterargument that? I am waiting for that constructive praise, I heard legends about. I played their games since Morrowind, and I see the same game in 2015, being sold as a new game.

 

This time it even has the same assets as Skyrim, same models, shading, textures, lighting. It is a mod.

 

So my question is, what took them 7 years?

 

Fallout was a dark franchise, something new in a ocean of dungeons and dragons games. It was full of adult topics, that weren't just mindless gore, and cheap sex scenes, current industry has. So what Bethesda did? They made Fallout: Dugeons and Dragons. Removed all the adult topics to the Disney level, added mindless gore and cheap romance and called it a day.