Why do people hate Fallout 4 so much?

[AGreatWeight]

 

How does losing a concept artist affect the development cycle? I think writers are more important. Concept artists just sit back and spew out these half-baked ideas and sloppy art.

It's a shame that you feel obliged to diminish the work that Adamowicz and other concept artists do, or at least it comes across like this when you refer to it as 'sloppy art'. It also infers ignorance on your part, particularly if you don't know how important Adamowicz general vision was, when it came to the artistic/aesthetic look of Fallout 4, or of the vast contribution he made to the game from this perspective. He'd been with them since 2005, and was the lead concept artist so I have a gut feeling that his death actually did somehow affect development; even if only in a subtle way.

I'm using this primarily as an example of one of the things that happened during development that may have possibly altered the trajectory of the final game we have, as well as asking if anyone knows of other things that impacted the game.

EDIT: I think we can all agree that the writers did a haftassed job.

Edited September 9, 2016 by AGreatWeight

[TummaSuklaa]

I don't mind the writing.. what I don't like is the unsettling feeling as I progress through a faction/storyline that I have no choice on the outcome of things, and that these "choices" presented are just to prevent you from realizing this. (Well I want to say "fact")

Edited September 9, 2016 by TummaSuklaa

[AGreatWeight]

But that's just it. I'm not saying the writing is terrible, just that it's very restrictive. It's certainly bland, and underdeveloped at exploring the overall themes of the game. My point being, it could have been a lot better, and should have been to a higher standard. The player is only given the illusion of choice, and this comes down to the writing which railroads the player character into a very narrow path right from the beginning of the game, the outcome of which has already been predetermined for you. Lack of meaningful choices/dialogue/exposition that veer away from the outcome that the developers/writers chose.

I'm sure that this has been discussed to death already, so sorry for steering the topic into already explored waters; but it does tenuously link to my earlier question regarding what went on during the development cycle, and how this resulted in a game that a lot of people were really disappointed in considering it's potential.

As an aside, I've got nearly 1000 hours playing Fallout 4 and have only scratched the surface of all the dlc, and while the game has plenty of faults, I still love playing it, and definitely got my moneys worth.

Edited September 9, 2016 by AGreatWeight

[mkborgelt13]

 

 

How does losing a concept artist affect the development cycle? I think writers are more important. Concept artists just sit back and spew out these half-baked ideas and sloppy art.

It's a shame that you feel obliged to diminish the work that Adamowicz and other concept artists do, or at least it comes across like this when you refer to it as 'sloppy art'. It also infers ignorance on your part, particularly if you don't know how important Adamowicz general vision was, when it came to the artistic/aesthetic look of Fallout 4, or of the vast contribution he made to the game from this perspective. He'd been with them since 2005, and was the lead concept artist so I have a gut feeling that his death actually did somehow affect development; even if only in a subtle way.

I'm using this primarily as an example of one of the things that happened during development that may have possibly altered the trajectory of the final game we have, as well as asking if anyone knows of other things that impacted the game.

EDIT: I think we can all agree that the writers did a haftassed job.

 

 

Concept artist seems like an unnecessary job (i.e. Dead Weight). Same kind of thing as a project where someone designates themselves the "idea person" because actual work is too hard, so they merely suggest ideas for others to follow.

 

Anyone can come up with ideas, it's nothing special. And concept art is by definition "sloppy," it is meant to be done quickly to get across a certain visual theme, so 3d artists have some direction as what to make.

 

I'm not personally bashing Adam Adamowicz. I draw a parallel to Michael Kirkbride, he was great for Elder Scrolls, but he wore many hats. He drew pictures, but he also contributed to the writing and backstory. When Kirkbride was no longer involved in the development process, I felt the series was never as good.

 

My problem is with a specific type of concept artist, who contributes nothing to the team, has an inflated opinion of him/herself, etc. Especially the ones who can't be bothered to do research on the subject of their "concepts." I again reference the Fallout 4 concept art of a revolver-type weapon with a box magazine. Or whoever came up with the petrol generators for settlements.

 

Ideas are all well and good, but just because they are your ideas doesn't mean they are good ideas. And if you are working in a setting such as Fallout, with pre-established technologies and conventions, you must consider these conventions.

 

I have personal experience dealing with "pie-in-the-sky" artists (concept and otherwise), in a development team for game, and I assure you, it is a pain in the ass. These came across as "I am too lazy to learn technology, but I want to contribute, so here, have this digital art I made."

 

As to what may have affected the final game... writers, definitely. They need new ones. Skyrim's quests were boring and uninspired. You cannot defend "Kill the Big Scary Black Dragon" as an original or interesting plot.

 

The problem is, if you make plot too complex, you lose some of the audience. I'm actually surprised at the FO4 plot. Being kicked out of factions isn't something they've done since Morrowind.

[AGreatWeight]

Regarding concept artists, I agree with you as far as when your talking about those individuals that are neither very skilled artists, or bereft of original ideas. The example you quote regarding the revolver certainly falls into that category. Someone in that position should have an in depth understanding of the lore, the tech and the conventions of the world that is being conveyed. So your right in that instance, and I can easily imagine how frustrating it can be having to deal with someone like that who lacks ability and vision. I get what you mean regarding the 'rushed' aesthetic of a lot of concept art. A lot of the time it is due to the artist getting ideas out quickly, or due to time restrictions imposed on them. Although, I have to say that I've seen a lot of concept art that looks deceptively simple, but in truth is a testament to the ability of the artist to make something look the opposite of what it is.

 

Bethesda definitely needs to hire new writers. I can't really comment on the Elder Scrolls series, as I've only played Skyrim 1/3 of the way through the main quest before a hdd failure stopped me and I never felt the urge to go back to it.

Regarding plot and game/system mechanics, I think a possible solution would be to flesh things out with more complexity as an optional thing, give players the choice... so that way, more casual players won't be left overwhelmed by depth that they don't/can't understand, and veterans will be able to access more complexity that they crave. Some way of integrating both so that no one is left behind and everybody is catered for, although those choosing the more casual style of play will be missing out on a lot of content/story/quests/factions/locations etc.

 

Which brings it back to the issue of player agency, and choice. Or lack of.

Edited September 9, 2016 by AGreatWeight

[charwo]

On concept art: it's very important, and can often be stunning and beautiful:

https://www.buzzfeed.com/danieldalton/stunning-star-wars-concept-art-ralph-mcquarrie?utm_term=.aiVo6xx5r#.hekMDkkPz

 

The Star Wars concept art is is some ways cooler than the movies themselves, which are awesome.

 

But the death of Adamowicz did nothing to shoot the turkey of Fallout 4. The game is ugly and dead and decayed but that's the theming of Bethesda's Fallout vision. The game is relentlessly ugly, but that's not the problem with it.

 

For a tightly focused main story, everything had to be organized correctly in the quests to make them engaging. They should have hired Obsidian's writing team as consultants, just to ask all those important questions that would have let them craft a fleshed out story. New Vegas's main storyline was just as restruictive (without mods at least) in terms of factions killing each other, But each one was done well enough that the restrictiveness was oscured. Also, the side quests were well intigrated into the Final Battle. I wouldn't be nearly so livid about this waste of space game if Father had been as fleshed out as Ceasar, if you got to bond with Shaun even to the extent you can bond with Veronica, to say nothing of Boone, or even bring up the possibility of pursuing the ghoulification technique used on Eddie Winter or Lorenzo's serum. You don't even get to talk to Father about his descision to liquidate University Point, hell Father doesn't ask you any questions about what you plan to do with the Institute, even though his whole plan is to give the Instite to "a leader."

 

And lest anyone ask further, this thread is called Why do People Hate Fallout 4 so much, and as such this is the thread for the haters to explain their reasons. I'm out 90 bucks, down 90 hours, and I got nothing out of it. I'm very angry and short of a refund that anger isn't going away. I check here every once and a while to see what's going on with mods.

[jjb54]

Now I do not " hate " the game, but I was seriously disappointed with it. The Sales HYPE did not even come close to the games actual play.

 

I was disappointed w/the plot. I mean, talk about tunnel vision and forced to " go here " if you did want to or not.

 

The dialog was also poor. There were rare exceptions where the dialog was fun to explore:

 

IE: Nick V.

I felt the dialog and sub-dialogs were great. You had a good vision as to who Nick is. How responded to some of the NPC's that you understood, he helped them and so on.

 

I would have liked to have seen the same level with Deacon. We get all these HINTS and then they go NO WHERE.

 

The Shaun the Synth. I already had a thread started on this, but who in their " right mind " would create an A.I. boy that will NEVER grow up / old? Would anyone in their right mind really want to put an A.I. kid through that?

 

The DLC's were a major let down, with the exception of Far Harbor. That actually had some " meat " to it and the characters were not ' shallow '.

 

Now I see with Nuka-World that one is FORCED to take the side of the Raiders or you loose out on a lot of the game play. Why should we be FORCED to go to a group that are simply the scum of the earth?? Seriously, this just makes zero sense to me, you either take the Raiders or you loose out: PERIOD.

 

Hate - NO. Seriously disappointed, yes. RPG's is about OPTIONS.

 

I'm guessing Beth was just trying to hurry this out the door and said, " Well, screw the players. "

[Relativelybest]

Personally, I think Fallout 4 is the best Bethesda game I've played so far. It's not flawless, and admittedly limited as a roleplaying game, but I played it to level 80 before I even thought about modding it - even now I only have a couple of mods - because for the first time they made me a game without any particular issues I wanted to fix. I didn't even bother to figure out which button opened the dev console until very recently.

Edited September 10, 2016 by Relativelybest

[bmt12]

I don't hate the game, it's RPG side was disappointing, but not more than Dragon Age 2 as mentioned in the ancient OP...as that was more of a traditional RPG than an open world like TES/Fallout, honestly the thing that I do "hate" more is the the game play that seemed to have gone backwards from New Vegas but again it's not nearly as terrible as DA2. I still get the urge to go back and play FO3 and New Vegas from time to time when 4 is bumming me out.

 

I wish it weren't so but voiced characters are here to stay, too many kids today are too lazy to really role play having grown up with the TV on 24/7 and have never picked up a book except for when they were being graded on it, and let's face it most of them use cliff notes.

[Mogadin]

Can't really compare DA2 to FO4 but whatever floats I suppose. Only thing I dislike about the game and it's something that the TES and Fallout titles suffer from...the unexplained playing one moment and on the Desktop the next moment. but I really think that has more to do with having to "FO4Edit Clean" .esm's. So much trash gets left behind and it seems the game is built to run with all that trash. But I digress, I'm having a blast with it I just need to remember to save often. It's to bad the game can't save on an unexpected CTD if you can really call them ctd's. it's like having someone walk by your room and flip the light switch. There really aren't THAT many that hate Fallout 4 they are just louder and more vocal then those that are spending their time enjoying the game. and most of the time I doubt it actually has anything at all to do with the game itself because ALL games get the same treatment from mostly the same people.