Hot Topic #1: The dumbing down of Oblivion

[Povuholo]

It sure is a hot hot topic... I wonder what #2 will be.

 

Imagine a new world... A world where consoles don't exist... A beautiful world.

 

Agreeing on every point Switch made.

 

To be honest I was rather naive with the Oblivion pre-release campaign as it was the first game I followed pre-release, so I thought all the wonderful things they promised would come true. :P

Join the club. When I looked back at the E3 demos later the only thing I could say was 'Damn!'. Especially the A.I. was overhyped. I don't believe the 'Some things had to be scrapped to prevent chaos.' excuse. It has never been detailed. The woman in the book store in the E3 video was scripted: She performed a million different actions within a gametime hour. The interaction with the dog was ridicilous.

 

NPC's don't get 'general goals' and figure it out themselves. Most of the packages are very specific. This cell, eat something (Which is in your inventory already. They don't buy stuff), do this from x to y hour. Next package: Wander outside in a radius of 3000 from your current location, doing nothing besides talking to people who are doing the same. And we really love those conversations do we? 'I heard X can train you, for a price.' 'Yes she is quite handy with a bow. I heard she is willing to teach others, if you have the money'. 'Goodbye' '[snort]'

 

Instead of focussing on pretty graphics, voice acting, the hypemachine and the console crowd they should focus on the pc, better quest, good A.I., etc.

[calvorin]

I, as it seems do most others, feel the vanillia game is a bit lacking in content. But, what Bethesda has provided is an excellent canvas for modders to paint uppon. I think, possibly too optimistically, that this was the intent of the makers of this game. They focused on the graphics and smooth interface, providing only a basic plot line, knowing that there would soon be more content available then they could possibly imagine, much less create.

My other point is in regards to the complaints about the weapon skills. I hear a lot of people lamenting the parsing down of varied weapon skill, and that "axes are not blunt". If I read that again I'll be inclined to drive a pen through my eye. Not that it's not an accurate statement, just that it is over mentioned. But I digress from my point. Having studied and trained with melee weapons for about a quarter-century, I have learned that the differences in the use of any given weapon type is very slight. An axe is used in essentially the same way as a sword,or a big club, for that matter, with some minor tweaks. The, realistic, weapon skills should be one-handed, two-handed, and light. Hand to hand is a viable skill, provided that script is added such that one immediately dies if they even consider fighting an armed opponant of considerable competance. We developed opposable thumbs for a reason.

Well, those are my two basic and initial points on the quality of this game release. The first being the most significant. Those of us who want a more complex, detailed world can find it via mods. The designers knew this. There are some out there that don't want that, and are happy with a simplistic shooter. They stick with vanilla, and the modders give wonderful things to the rest of us. After the weight of mods that came out for Morrowind, the game designers had every reason to anticipate this scenario.

[omiko]

good things about oblivion: the combat system, voices, npc schedules, casting spells in combat mode...

 

bad things about oblivion: no dropping of quest items [honestly, if i lose the great welkynd stone, i deserve to spend the rest of my oblivion days looking for it. access denied to silorn, sancre tor, the arcane university, geez, i just want to see what's there without having to deal with j'skarr. too many other things to list here...

 

but the worst, to me, is no sense of grandeur, no panorama. the entire continent of tamriel is saved from Oblivion [horrors!!] and some weeks later, i walk in to a warehouse, not even a warehouse, a storage area, and i pick up my armor. i could hear the guards snickering on the way out, 'sucker.'

 

good things about morrowind: a magnificent storyline WITH a sense of grandeur and a certain bittersweet quality, that beats anything i have ever read in a novel [and i read -- a lot] and i'm not just talking about the main quest, also the houses, the morag tong v. the cammona tong, solstheim, tribunal.... a druggie supervisor, a quirky man-god, a prissy supervillain, an incredible wise woman of the ashlands, werewolves, the bipoar blade...

 

bad things about morrowind: gee, can't think of any offhand -- oh, yeah, cliff racers.

 

i feel that the hoodoos, guroos and suits at bethesda [azura bless 'em] are not going to abandon the good things about oblivion, so make them better, and by that i don't mean more candy.

 

here are some examples:

 

beggars are people too. let them be a useful source of information for everything that goes on in tamriel and oh, hey, now you can get rid of those map markers: 'heronymus lex, that old windbag, he goes to lunch every day, at 12:30 at the bloated float.'

 

[on a side note, everytime you give them a hand out let it count for .00001 fame point, or something. make use of those voices and that time.]

 

again, with voices and dialogue, alternative choices in all questlines, good choices for the good guys in the thieves guild, bad choices for the bad guys in the main quest. with a way to continue and complete the quest, of course. this calls for some inventiveness, but hey, i have faith in bethesda *grin, with accompanying innocent look*.

 

delay the main quest until level 10, or until you have gotten to a certain level in a guild, or whatever. make it a requirement to have some fame points before your combat worthiness to undertake the main quest, is recognized. make a way for bad guy players to become fame worthy in spite of their chosen occupation. which leads us to...

 

every quest should be begun by an npc, not the player, like the pale pass quest in bruma or the order of the virtuous blood in IC. every quest.

 

last thing about voices, do not, i repeat, do not lose lynda carter, even at the expense of losing sean bean, et. al.

 

lastly, bring back the houses and the morag tong and malacath bless 'em, those lovable cammona tong thugs...

 

my fantasy for TESV: combine tamriel and morrowind: the prequel. pick an earlier era than that of either game, show how it all got started the guilds, the houses, apolgies to reguard, daggerfall and arena.

 

i think i'm beginning to ramble....

[21603]

I, as it seems do most others, feel the vanillia game is a bit lacking in content. But, what Bethesda has provided is an excellent canvas for modders to paint uppon. I think, possibly too optimistically, that this was the intent of the makers of this game. They focused on the graphics and smooth interface, providing only a basic plot line, knowing that there would soon be more content available then they could possibly imagine, much less create.

 

Yes but they've made modding the game almost impossible from the start, and now even more with the release of the new "better" construction set and the 1.2 "patch".

 

If you're going to let people mod your game then release a proper tool set so new models, animations, textures and other stuff can be created quickly and easily.

[Toasted Soap]

Bethesda devs, if you are listening, please could you include in your next expansion (can't wait, whatever it will be) some type of simple custom content creator app, along the lines of the aurora toolset of NWN 1, but not like the one in NWN2, because it was too complex for a noob like me. I have made a few basic retexture mods and I have to say that it take a good bit of time. Thats just my opinion, but I know a lot of people who have never even tried making some custom content because they think its too hard but would really like to give it a go! Also physics capes!

[21603]

Bethesda devs, if you are listening, please could you include in your next expansion (can't wait, whatever it will be) some type of simple custom content creator app, along the lines of the aurora toolset of NWN 1, but not like the one in NWN2, because it was too complex for a noob like me. I have made a few basic retexture mods and I have to say that it take a good bit of time. Thats just my opinion, but I know a lot of people who have never even tried making some custom content because they think its too hard but would really like to give it a go! Also physics capes!

 

Your post falls upon deaf, umm... eyes here unfortunately and somewhat over at the official forums. As for physics capes and clothing, I've been told it's impossible because of engine limitations. Apparently it had the capability for much more advanced bodies and clothes, but was removed (not sure if it's at all true, can anyone clarify).

[bound by birth]

I thought it would be better. I thought it would be as expansive as morrowind. Its graphics are much better but morrowind was and always will be a better game.

[bound by birth]

I gotta say that there are a lot of things working for and against Oblivion. Naturally, the beautiful graphics are going to raise the game a few pegs above Morrowind, but that has very little to do with the game itself.

 

I know that the quests are not as numerous in OB, nor the factions, nor the skills, nor the NPCs, nor the armor types, nor the clothing slots...where was I going with this? :huh: Oh yes, well the things that have been reduced in number have generally been improved in quality.

 

My first stab at the Elder Scrolls series was Daggerfall, way back when. While I was amazed at the time, the fact that every city and place looked like pretty much every other city and place didn't exactly lead to gameplay as dynamic as some folks like to claim. I don't think OB has suffered by taking away certain things, like some of the skills (I still miss my short blade and medium armor, though), as long as the implementation is buffed up or simply made more interesting. Lockpicking is a case for that point. Oblivion HAS suffered, however, by the removal of so many clothing slots and unique environments. Morrowind really did (or does still) have a lot going for it in terms of variety of gameplay, since decisions made in MW would actually catch up to you. In OB, your "good" or "evil" actions don't mean a damn thing in the long run, other than being inconvenienced by not being able to pray at altars.

 

One thing that Oblivion does far, far better than Morrowind: Combat.

 

The combat in Oblivion absolutely crushes that of Morrowind, like a sledgehammer crushes a grape. MW combat was piss-poor, and I was so thrilled to see that in OB, swinging a damn sword directly in the face of a bandit did not make that soul-piercing "miss" scrape sound 400 times before doing a speck of damage. Dodging, moving, blocking, and attacking all finally WORK. Not to mention the far superior marksmanship engine. Knives, stars, daggers, crossbows, whatever; I'll take the bow and arrow any day over a poorly implemented arsenal, no matter how massive.

 

Honestly, what would be ideal is a remake of Morrowind with the tools of Oblivion. I would still play Morrowind, as many do, if only I didn't have an aneurism every time I squared off with a cliff racer (which was every 4 seconds), swinging my weapon for an hour.

 

 

I agree completely and if it had the same graphics

[elpiggo]

I like the skills being 'dumbed down' in Oblivion because there's more chance of getting something you're good at. The other day I went to a dungeon in Morrowind, killed a guy outside and took his armour, Orcish. It was medium armour. In Oblivion, it's heavy. My major skills in Morrowind include heavy armour but not medium armour. So in other words, the best armour my new character has come across so far is practically useless to him

[pchefkent]

I played Oblivion before I went and got Morrowind GOTY. I love the fast paced combat/spellcasting of Oblivionas well as the grapihics. But I loved the complicatedness of Morrowind. I also liked the numerous unique and powerfull items in Morrowind. My dream is to see the best of both worlds. Especially the items, skills and the training combined with the graphics and combat system of oblivion with the added stab attack and ranged options of morrowind. I loved the darts and thrown weapons as well as the crossbow. One can dream, though dreams have been known to come to reality with patience, hard work and a lot of good old fashioned luck. :P