Do You Think the Delayed Creation Kit Will Have a Long Term Negative Effect on Modding?

[minngarm]

 

 

Its always been funny to me how Beth feels mod users (who gain nothing financially from using mods) should pay for mods, but they (the ones who've seen significant financial gains from mod authors' works) not only don't owe mod authors anything, but are actually entitled to a significant portion of the proceeds.

Mod users also gain nothing financially from buying Fallout 4. :tongue:

 

And yes, we owe Bethesda some kickback because we are literally playing in their sandbox. Our work would not have any audience (certainly not the size of Fallout / TES audience) if we were simply writing scripts that didn't work within the existing framework or textures that didn't go onto a mesh. You can of course make money as a programmer, a graphics artist, or a 3D modeler, but then you are competing against pretty much everyone else.

You first point has no relevance except to try and start an argument that's been had many times before. I've written that mod authors shouldn't be compensated by users.

 

Your 2nd point makes no sense to me. Why do authors owe anything to Beth? Does Beth pay royalties to Microsoft, AMD, Nvidia, the designers of papyrus, the creators of the 3d modeling and animation programs they used to create FO4? I imagine they don't. They just by the proper licenses to use those original programs.

 

No one is lining up to try to force Beth to use one specific distrubution platform and take a cut of their profits from the sale of FO4. Yet that is exactly what they want to do. It is an attempt to circumvent free market forces. Their want, to limit the freedom of modding is exactly why I feel so strongly, they shouldn't be the facilitators or keepers of monetized modding.

 

This, like your previous post, makes no sense at all. You need to reword it if you feel you have a valid point to make because I certainly don't see it, it all sounds like tin foil hat conspiracy slander as is.

[WursWaldo]

 

I think Bethesda will put a moratorium on mods not made with their official software.

It is impossible to determine what software a mod was made with.

So Bethesda doesn't know if the all of the mods available right now were made with the FO4 CK or not? So the FO4 updates we've had so far haven't sabotaged people's modded game installations and made them unplayable? Okay, whatever you say.

 

and chew on this for a few. What percentage of the market is really PC users? PC users are also the mod authors and creators.

 

If they stifle us there shooting there master plan in the foot!!!!!

 

The real market is all the people that play on Xbox and PS4, not the few who use PC's and create mods.

 

I have no fears about Beth trying to control the mods or how there made. They need us as much as we need them!

You're contradicting yourself and ignoring some facts. The PC market is just a drop in the bucket and the big money comes from consoles. Then it doesn't matter if they stifle us since we're the minority, even if we are the ones making mods. We are part of the master plan and they need us as much as we need them but they won't be controlling modding, even though Pete Hines admits they will be.

 

Bethesda won't shoot itself in the foot if they control modding. They will be turning wild cattle into cash cows.

 

Fun Stuff: During the monetized mods for Skyrim; out of the 17 or so mods participating Steam sold about 10,000 downloads. That means there is an interest in people modding for money and people paying to get the content. The major complaint was 'something was free before now isn't'. That won't be the case with FO4; users already agreed to monetized modding. It's in the FO4 EULA. "Customized Game Materials must be distributed solely for free" doesn't apply to Bethesda the licencor, it applies to us the users. The EULA allows Bethesda to dispose Customized Game Material (a mod made with their software) as they see fit; including selling it without compensation to the mod's creator. Basically the things people want complain about and 'no it will never happen' they already agreed to when they installed the game.

 

I learned about games and licensing the hard way. I dev'd on a 2d game that uses the Godot Engine. Now the team is stuck with a game we can't sell or even distribute for free because we 'don't own it'. All of the work we did isn't really ours according to the Godot license. Bethesda's FO4 EULA is telling modders the same thing.

Edited March 28, 2016 by WursWaldo

[Boombro]

 

Fun Stuff: During the monetized mods for Skyrim; out of the 17 or so mods participating Steam sold about 10,000 downloads. That means there is an interest in people modding for money and people paying to get the content. The major complaint was 'something was free before now isn't'. That won't be the case with FO4; users already agreed to monetized modding. It's in the FO4 EULA. "Customized Game Materials must be distributed solely for free" doesn't apply to Bethesda the licencor, it applies to us the users.

Won't they be pissed since it more like sneak attack?

[minngarm]

 

 

I think Bethesda will put a moratorium on mods not made with their official software.

It is impossible to determine what software a mod was made with.

So Bethesda doesn't know if the all of the mods available right now were made with the FO4 CK or not? So the FO4 updates we've had so far haven't sabotaged people's modded game installations and made them unplayable? Okay, whatever you say.

 

and chew on this for a few. What percentage of the market is really PC users? PC users are also the mod authors and creators.

 

If they stifle us there shooting there master plan in the foot!!!!!

 

The real market is all the people that play on Xbox and PS4, not the few who use PC's and create mods.

 

I have no fears about Beth trying to control the mods or how there made. They need us as much as we need them!

You're contradicting yourself and ignoring some facts. The PC market is just a drop in the bucket and the big money comes from consoles. Then it doesn't matter if they stifle us since we're the minority, even if we are the ones making mods. We are part of the master plan and they need us as much as we need them but they won't be controlling modding, even though Pete Hines admits they will be.

 

Bethesda won't shoot itself in the foot if they control modding. They will be turning wild cattle into cash cows.

 

Fun Stuff: During the monetized mods for Skyrim; out of the 17 or so mods participating Steam sold about 10,000 downloads. That means there is an interest in people modding for money and people paying to get the content. The major complaint was 'something was free before now isn't'. That won't be the case with FO4; users already agreed to monetized modding. It's in the FO4 EULA. "Customized Game Materials must be distributed solely for free" doesn't apply to Bethesda the licencor, it applies to us the users. The EULA allows Bethesda to dispose Customized Game Material (a mod made with their software) as they see fit; including selling it without compensation to the mod's creator. Basically the things people want complain about and 'no it will never happen' they already agreed to when they installed the game.

 

I learned about games and licensing the hard way. I dev'd on a 2d game that uses the Godot Engine. Now the team is stuck with a game we can't sell or even distribute for free because we 'don't own it'. All of the work we did isn't really ours according to the Godot license. Bethesda's FO4 EULA is telling modders the same thing.

 

This has always been the case with all their products. Nothing new for the EULA.

 

Now in the US at least you could win an individual claim or settle out of court when a claim is filed for them selling your mod work without providing you a fee based on labor claims. But yea they technically reserve the right to sell it if they so wish, you have no say in that.

[Fatalmasterpiece]

 

 

I think Bethesda will put a moratorium on mods not made with their official software.

It is impossible to determine what software a mod was made with.

So Bethesda doesn't know if the all of the mods available right now were made with the FO4 CK or not? So the FO4 updates we've had so far haven't sabotaged people's modded game installations and made them unplayable? Okay, whatever you say.

 

 

They know they weren't made with the CK because the CK isn't available for users yet. However there is nothing in a .esp that is going to tell them the user made a mod with official Bethsoft CK, FO4edit, a hex editor or any other third party program. Furthermore most mods utilize some kind of third party software like Nifscope, 3dsMax, Photoshop etc at some point in their creation. In other words, Bethsoft CANNOT make a moratorium on mods made with third party software because almost all of them by nature utilize other software.

 

In other words you're just trolling for drama with your chicken little comments. The sky is not falling. Paid mods aren't going to ruin game modding, or the Nexus and Bethesda is not going to pee in your cheerios.

[Moksha8088]

 

The sky is not falling. Paid mods aren't going to ruin game modding, or the Nexus and Bethesda is not going to pee in your cheerios.

With proper market research, modders can be incentivized to think consoles first and PCs second. If the young players want a combo Minecraft and World of Warcraft game, Fallout 4 has that capability with all the building items. If these market research children want the Player to lead a team of tactical brahmin and commando deathclaws to assist in defeating the Boss at various locations, modders can do that. Make sure to include a molerat healer. What about some cute kids doing samurai sword fighting? Throw it in, for you have crossed over into the Commerical Zone.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Moksha8088

[Reneer]

You first point has no relevance except to try and start an argument that's been had many times before. I've written that mod authors shouldn't be compensated by users.

My first point was meant as a joke.

 

Your 2nd point makes no sense to me. Why do authors owe anything to Beth? Does Beth pay royalties to Microsoft, AMD, Nvidia, the designers of papyrus, the creators of the 3d modeling and animation programs they used to create FO4? I imagine they don't. They just by the proper licenses to use those original programs.

 

No one is lining up to try to force Beth to use one specific distrubution platform and take a cut of their profits from the sale of FO4. Yet that is exactly what they want to do. It is an attempt to circumvent free market forces. Their want, to limit the freedom of modding is exactly why I feel so strongly, they shouldn't be the facilitators or keepers of monetized modding.

We owe things to Bethesda as modders because we are using their content when we create our mods. We are using their world, their story, their characters, etc, when we design and create a mod. That is why Bethesda gets to decide if we should pay royalties when we sell a mod, and what percentage they will get.

 

Everyone who plays FO4 on PC has to have Steam installed in order to legitimately play the game. So Valve may not have "forced" Beth to use Steam, but Valve certainly gets a cut of Bethesda's profits every time someone buys Fallout 4 on the Steam system.

 

So Bethesda doesn't know if the all of the mods available right now were made with the FO4 CK or not? So the FO4 updates we've had so far haven't sabotaged people's modded game installations and made them unplayable? Okay, whatever you say.

I've never one had a problem with FO4 updates sabotaging my modding game installs. But maybe that's because I use the manual mod install method instead of relying on other tools.

 

Fun Stuff: During the monetized mods for Skyrim; out of the 17 or so mods participating Steam sold about 10,000 downloads. That means there is an interest in people modding for money and people paying to get the content. The major complaint was 'something was free before now isn't'. That won't be the case with FO4; users already agreed to monetized modding. It's in the FO4 EULA. "Customized Game Materials must be distributed solely for free" doesn't apply to Bethesda the licencor, it applies to us the users. The EULA allows Bethesda to dispose Customized Game Material (a mod made with their software) as they see fit; including selling it without compensation to the mod's creator. Basically the things people want complain about and 'no it will never happen' they already agreed to when they installed the game.

 

I learned about games and licensing the hard way. I dev'd on a 2d game that uses the Godot Engine. Now the team is stuck with a game we can't sell or even distribute for free because we 'don't own it'. All of the work we did isn't really ours according to the Godot license. Bethesda's FO4 EULA is telling modders the same thing.

Go read the Bethesda.Net EULA. Specifically section 2, part D ("Game Mods"). You'll note that the Bethesda.Net EULA makes multiple mentions that "Game Mods" are not "customized game materials". And, further, that any Game Editor EULAs supersede the Bethesda.Net EULA. Oh, and as an added bonus, the Bethesda.Net EULA specifically mentions that game mods are owned by the mod developers, not Bethesda. Edited March 28, 2016 by Reneer

[minngarm]

 

 

The sky is not falling. Paid mods aren't going to ruin game modding, or the Nexus and Bethesda is not going to pee in your cheerios.

With proper market research, modders can be incentivized to think consoles first and PCs second. If the young players want a combo Minecraft and World of Warcraft game, Fallout 4 has that capability with all the building items. If these market research children want the Player to lead a team of tactical brahmin and commando deathclaws to assist in defeating the Boss at various locations, modders can do that. Make sure to include a molerat healer. What about some cute kids doing samurai sword fighting? Throw it in, for you have crossed over into the Commerical Zone.

 

I've already got a Brahmin and Mirelurk companion planned. Was going to see when the CK is out if it would be easy to mount the vertibird chaingun on it for the player to use as they go about. >.>

Edited March 28, 2016 by minngarm

[Boombro]

 

I've already got a Brahmin and Mirelurk companion planned.

I get the cow (pack mule.), but why the crab?

Aren't kings faster and useful.

[minngarm]

 

 

I've already got a Brahmin and Mirelurk companion planned.

I get the cow (pack mule.), but why the crab?

Aren't kings faster and useful.

 

He has a back story.

 

Mir the mirelurk was hatched in the capital wasteland. One day a few weeks after his hatching the nest came under attack by a mysterious Lone Wanderer muttering half curses about some crazed genocidal shop keeper who wanted to write the horrors of her evil deeds in a manifesto for all to read.

 

During the attack Mir was injured by a explosive blast that sent him down a old intake pipe, injuring his leg and separating him from his broodmates. Unable to climb back up the pipe Mir was forced to listen to the horrifying screams of his family as the Lone Wanderer butchered them all, old and young alike.

 

After hours of trying to scurry up the pipe Mir finally passed out from exhaustion, awaking hours later to the pain and isolation of a world gone cold... But his torment was not over by far.

 

From that horrific day Mir was left with three proverbial scars that will stay with him until the day he dies. The first is the memory of his family lost. Next is the limp from the malformed leg. Then lastperhaps cruelest of all, is a small radio embedded in his shell by the very same blast that sent him down the pipe and conscribed him to a life of misery. For you see the radio was always broadcasting on a volume just high enough to echo throughout Mir's head, despite no one else ever hearing it. A broadcast of decadent radio drama's on a perpetual loop from some old world station in the north, and from here Mir learned the language of his tormentors....

 

Now years later Mir has worked his way to the commonwealth, believing he has finally located the source of the transmission, or at least it's general area. Mir will fullfill his life long ambition here, to avenge his family? Or become the greatest of radio drama stars the new world has ever known!

 

---

So yea, he's a talking Mirelurk with a quest line. I want to put him in a hat and give him a cane and so on, but will start with just the default mirelurk and jam a radio in his back until I can get something more custom hobbled together.