"Solving" the 4-options dialogue system

[anbeegod]

 

But that is a poorly written conversation that is...

 

a) Inefficient for writing and voice acting, because you have to do 11 lines of dialogue and the player only hears 1. That is 10 wasted lines of dialogue.

 

b) Just plane boring and doesn't add anything to the roleplaying of the character.

 

c) Cumbersome.

 

 

 

If you want to express your opinion in words, you have a whole THREE dialogue options to do that. That is more than enough to actually craft a conversation that is immersive and flows like a real world conversation. You can branch things, build tension, create a narrative, and leave the player feeling like they ACTUALLY expressed themselves.

 

As opposed to just giving them a big long list of half baked options.

 

 

 

If you replay and roleplay as someone who'd answer differently, then those lines will not go to waste. In the same logic, if dialogue options that one wouldn't choose are of waste, wouldn't a large amount of scripts that trigger events which you wouldn't make happen be of waste as well?

 

I was just giving examples to make it apparent, that not all dialogues can always be zipped and optimized.

[anbeegod]

 

 

 

Ultimately, it means more dialogue options still. Besides, what if I adore a province not for its races, but for its magnificent scenery and hidden secrets?

Branch it with why?

 

 

 

Wow, this seems like a really contentious issue.

Does anyone know if there's any plans to make a dialogue system like Skyrim? I thought it was best.

Who knows, maybe FO4 can hold more than four. But maybe the leads said just four for one reason or another.

We really can't do much with CK to dig into stuff well and proper, or the entrance of smarty pants.

 

 

 

NPC: What makes you like a province?

 

Player:

1. I like its forests. (leads to all options except Hammerfell, Morrowind and 10, 11, which is still much)

2. I like its people. (leads to all options except 10, 11, every province has likable people)

3. I like the secrets hidden beneath its soil. (leads to all options except 10, 11, every province has its secrets)

4. I like its chaos. (leads to Cyrodiil, High Rock, Skyrim, Hammerfell, and possibly Black Marsh)

5. I like its magic. (leads to all options except 10, 11)

6. I want to destroy them all.

7. I love every province.

 

 

 

True. Our talk is based on a speculation that 4-options will definitely be a limitation, without concrete proof. Until CK comes out, all we can do is to guess and think of possible ways to deal with it if it is indeed true.

[Boombro]

 

NPC: What makes you like a province?

Player:

1. I like its forests. (leads to all options except Hammerfell, Morrowind and 10, 11, which is still much)

2. I like its people. (leads to all options except 10, 11, every province has likable people)

3. I like the secrets hidden beneath its soil. (leads to all options except 10, 11, every province has its secrets)

4. I like its chaos. (leads to Cyrodiil, High Rock, Skyrim, Hammerfell, and possibly Black Marsh)

5. I like its magic. (leads to all options except 10, 11)

6. I want to destroy them all.

7. I love every province.

That is much better written than the past example.

However, shouldn't 3 lead to black marsh, summer and Elsy only? The others have pretty much zero secrets. With those being close or hardly spoken off by the local.

 

 

 

True. Our talk is based on a speculation that 4-options will definitely be a limitation, without concrete proof. Until CK comes out, all we can do is to guess and think of possible ways to deal with it if it is indeed true.

Well, limitations can only makes the willing people better is what I say.

[anbeegod]

 

 

NPC: What makes you like a province?

Player:

1. I like its forests. (leads to all options except Hammerfell, Morrowind and 10, 11, which is still much)

2. I like its people. (leads to all options except 10, 11, every province has likable people)

3. I like the secrets hidden beneath its soil. (leads to all options except 10, 11, every province has its secrets)

4. I like its chaos. (leads to Cyrodiil, High Rock, Skyrim, Hammerfell, and possibly Black Marsh)

5. I like its magic. (leads to all options except 10, 11)

6. I want to destroy them all.

7. I love every province.

That is much better written than the past example.

However, shouldn't 3 lead to black marsh, summer and Elsy only? The others have pretty much zero secrets. With those being close or hardly spoken off by the local.

 

 

Well, limitations can only makes the willing people better is what I say.

 

 

 

If it is discovered, it ain't no secret. The branches are still cumbersome as well, because "conversations" like that can only be done in this way.

 

 

Limitations, depending on their forms, can be beneficial or harmful. What limitation F4 CK might have is the kind that is unnecessary and harmful.

Edited March 30, 2016 by anbeegod

[TeamBacon]

Well, now you are just intentionally looking to be limited, and it is still not the type of conversation I would ever want to have in my game.

 

In my opinion, having over 4 options is a total waste. If you really want to try, yes, you can find something that someone somewhere would find interesting that can't be done... But as for me, I don't want to be interviewed by an npc, that isn't fun storytelling to me.

[Boombro]

 

If it is discovered, it ain't no secret.

Hardly, those three have plenty, with argonia not even that well known it locals even.

 

 

Limitations, depending on their forms, can be beneficial or harmful. What limitation F4 CK might have is the kind that is unnecessary and harmful.

Then adopt it and master it, show it who`s boss or give up.

[JuJooGuppy]

Everyones going to have their own tastes on these things of course, just like you and survival mode =D. Gotta do what works for you!

[TeamBacon]

Everyones going to have their own tastes on these things of course, just like you and survival mode =D. Gotta do what works for you!

 

But it is still only a problem if you really, really try to make it a problem.

 

I've have already written 400 pages of dialogue with the 4 choice system without ever feeling limited. Half of that will be cut and cleaned up before my final mod is released, but there is definitely no challenge to writing within a perfectly reasonable amount of options.

 

In the end modders will write better stuff as a result because they can't go back to their bad habits of throwing you everything in your face at once.

[anbeegod]

 

Then adopt it and master it, show it who`s boss or give up.

 

 

Farmers in California overcome the natural constraints because they have money and tech, whereas farmers in Sahel can only adapt to the harsh environment because they have nothing. Is it possible that we can forcefully modify the system's inborn constraints, with our modders' skills and techniques, remains an unknown factor. Are we going to be California or Sahel? We will try, with whatever we can to overcome the limitation, before we give up and do whatever Beth wants us to.

 

 

 

But it is still only a problem if you really, really try to make it a problem.

 

I've have already written 400 pages of dialogue with the 4 choice system without ever feeling limited. Half of that will be cut and cleaned up before my final mod is released, but there is definitely no challenge to writing within a perfectly reasonable amount of options.

 

In the end modders will write better stuff as a result because they can't go back to their bad habits of throwing you everything in your face at once.

 

 

Nevertheless, different people have different writing style and favor. Some people would claim that DA2 is a good game, some people would believe that WoD's story is logical, and attempts in changing their mind don't mean anything. Arguing about this will never lead us to anywhere, because this is only a matter of opinion and thoughts.

 

The very fundamental problem of this system does not lie at story writing, but functionality mods that use dialogue option slots. Randomly install 10 immersion mods in Skyrim and it will become apparent.

Edited March 31, 2016 by anbeegod

[Boombro]

 

Farmers in California overcome the natural constraints because they have money and tech, whereas farmers in Sahel can only adapt to the harsh environment because they have nothing

We are not farmers though.

 

Maybe you are so used to the old system, anbeegod? Did you try to train at it?