What can be done to stop the violence on the Mexican/Amerian border

[Ghogiel]

Assuming the border is a problem. And assuming that the current way it is handled is not the best or optimal way of reducing violence there. What other proposal besides legalising MJ and perhaps even cocaine would be effective in reducing it? I see anti legalisation people, but I haven't really seen a any better proposal offered from that direction. I did skim over the thread a bit, as it seemed primarily debating pros and cons of legalisation. Just for a second, lets rule that out as a possible course of action. What else could be done? Are there any better ideas.

 

For the record the pro legalisation proposal made so far seems the one that stands to reason, drugs, drug money and cartels/mafia are I am sure we all mostly agree are the primary factors in the actual violence itself, so it stands to reason that is where one would look for a better solution to the problem. The idea is that reducing the cash flow might reduce the violence. If it can be significantly impeded then.. you see where I am going. forget all the domestic issues like making money from tax, creation of a real industry new jobs, safer environment for users, cleaner drugs, less crime, all that.

[antonkr]

Err... DUI laws would stay the same if drugs were made legal.

 

Its illegal to drive under the influence of any strong drug, including pharmaceutical medicine.

Like he said it doesn't just apply to alcohol. I know of a person who has taken some medication and then crashed his car. Counted as DUI

[HeyYou]

For reducing border violence, aside from the legalization angle..... We could stop selling them guns...... Of course, they will just find a new supplier, but, at least we wouldn't be contributing to our own problems......

 

Aside from that, it is really hard to separate the drugs, from the problem as supplying the drugs IS the problem. The wars going on down there are all about turf, and who controls it, by the drug cartels. We could go in there with the military, and give the Mexicans a hand, but, we would have to operate by the legal Rules, and abide by laws. The cartels do not suffer from that constraint. They can use whatever tactics they feel are effective. No matter how despicable. If we resorted to the same tactics they use, the entire world would be screaming bloody murder about 'violation of basic human rights' and such. Even if we just marched in to the known locations, and summarily shot everyone there, we would still be seen as 'the bad guys', since they didn't get a trial..... It's really a no-win situation. Direct action is going to be ineffective. Only by passive action are we going to make any difference at all, without pissing off the majority of the free world in the process.Including the Mexicans....

Edited August 24, 2011 by HeyYou

[Nintii]

Nintii, Please try reading at least a couple of posts before spouting out your first and second nonsense.. Legalizing drugs would decrease the violence on our border, as most violence is caused by drug cartels. Legalizing drugs would put the cartels out of a job, and therefore the violence on the border will be severely reduced. If you want to debate about legalizing drugs, start another topic about it. :rolleyes:

 

 

Hehehehe, well at least I know where you're coming from ... lets's

 

1) Ignore the topic at hand ... (like Marharth) again !!! :wallbash:

 

2) Let's call everything we don't agree with nonsense ... cos hopefully our retractors will get bothered with this\emabarresed by this, and just go away and stop refuting our claims :ohdear:

 

3) Let's continue to spread the message that drugs are OK, and ignore the reality that drugs kill people, and ruin people's lives etc. :facepalm:

 

No, no wait, you're right, I'M SO SORRY, let's do it your way ... let's legalise drugs and in so doing, that'll stop the violence on the border ... hah, now we'll get our poison of choice

at a HUGE DISCOUNT down at the local 7/11, that should show these big 'n nasty evil men with guns a thing or two.

Yesiree bob, that ought to pull the rug out from under their pudgy little hairy drug dealing legs.

 

Yeah well ok, maybe, just maybe, we might feel a little sorry for the poor little blighters at a later stage and start a "Save the Cartel Fund" or something or the other ... but we'll see.

After all they went away so nice and peacefully when they realised that the game was up.

 

Whew, finally peace on the border ...

 

Now with the Cartels GONE ELSEWHERE, we can finally smoke it up, snort, shoot and poke it up in peace yeeha, i'm so happy I could dance a jig !

Even our governments are so happy that the Cartels are finding new types of income and starting a new life.

And hey, if they kill a couple hundred people in their new market, well so what, all people gonna die oneday anyway right ?

I mean let's face it, people are just a bunch of molecules and chemicals anyway, so what the heck.

 

The FACTS that drugs kill, ruin peoples lives and bring nothing but misery, is nothing but a load of propaganda spread by those stupid goodie goodie two-shoes, facists, who know

nothing anyway.

 

Whoo hoo, Draconix, I'm with you babe :thumbsup:

Edited August 27, 2011 by Nintii

[AlexxEG]

Nintii, Please try reading at least a couple of posts before spouting out your first and second nonsense.. Legalizing drugs would decrease the violence on our border, as most violence is caused by drug cartels. Legalizing drugs would put the cartels out of a job, and therefore the violence on the border will be severely reduced. If you want to debate about legalizing drugs, start another topic about it. :rolleyes:

 

 

Hehehehe, well at least I know where you're coming from ... lets's

 

1) Ignore the topic at hand ... (like Marharth) again !!! :wallbash:

 

2) Let's call everything we don't agree with nonsense ... cos hopefully our retractors will get bothered with this\emabarresed by this, and just go away and stop refuting our claims :ohdear:

 

3) Let's continue to spread the message that drugs are OK, and ignore the reality that drugs kill people, and ruin people's lives etc. :facepalm:

 

No, no wait, you're right, I'M SO SORRY, let's do it your way ... let's legalise drugs and in so doing, that'll stop the violence on the border ... hah, now we'll get our poison of choice

at a HUGE DISCOUNT down at the local 7/11, that should show these big 'n nasty evil men with guns a thing or two.

Yesiree bob, that ought to pull the rug out from under their pudgy little hairy drug dealing legs.

 

Yeah well ok, maybe, just maybe, we might feel a little sorry for the poor little blighters at a later stage and start a "Save the Cartel Fund" or something or the other ... but we'll see.

After all they went away so nice and peacefully when they realised that the game was up.

 

Whew, finally peace on the border ...

 

Now with the Cartels GONE ELSEWHERE, we can finally smoke it up, snort, shoot and poke it up in peace yeeha, i'm so happy I could dance a jig !

Even our governments are so happy that the Cartels are finding new types of income and starting a new life.

And hey, if they kill a couple hundred people in their new market, well so what, all people gonna die oneday anyway right ?

I mean let's face it, people are just a bunch of molecules and chemicals anyway, so what the heck.

 

The FACTS that drugs kill, ruin peoples lives and bring nothing but misery, is nothing but a load of propaganda spread by those stupid goodie goodie two-shoes, facists, who know

nothing anyway.

 

Whoo hoo, Draconix, I'm with you babe :thumbsup:

 

Not all drugs kill. And most of the reason it ruins peoples lifes is BECAUSE it's illegal. I agree some drugs shouldn't be legal. (those who make you go crazy and possibly hurt/kill people.)

[HeyYou]

Nintii, Please try reading at least a couple of posts before spouting out your first and second nonsense.. Legalizing drugs would decrease the violence on our border, as most violence is caused by drug cartels. Legalizing drugs would put the cartels out of a job, and therefore the violence on the border will be severely reduced. If you want to debate about legalizing drugs, start another topic about it. :rolleyes:

 

 

Hehehehe, well at least I know where you're coming from ... lets's

 

1) Ignore the topic at hand ... (like Marharth) again !!! :wallbash:

 

2) Let's call everything we don't agree with nonsense ... cos hopefully our retractors will get bothered with this\emabarresed by this, and just go away and stop refuting our claims :ohdear:

 

3) Let's continue to spread the message that drugs are OK, and ignore the reality that drugs kill people, and ruin people's lives etc. :facepalm:

 

No, no wait, you're right, I'M SO SORRY, let's do it your way ... let's legalise drugs and in so doing, that'll stop the violence on the border ... hah, now we'll get our poison of choice

at a HUGE DISCOUNT down at the local 7/11, that should show these big 'n nasty evil men with guns a thing or two.

Yesiree bob, that ought to pull the rug out from under their pudgy little hairy drug dealing legs.

 

Yeah well ok, maybe, just maybe, we might feel a little sorry for the poor little blighters at a later stage and start a "Save the Cartel Fund" or something or the other ... but we'll see.

After all they went away so nice and peacefully when they realised that the game was up.

 

Whew, finally peace on the border ...

 

Now with the Cartels GONE ELSEWHERE, we can finally smoke it up, snort, shoot and poke it up in peace yeeha, i'm so happy I could dance a jig !

Even our governments are so happy that the Cartels are finding new types of income and starting a new life.

And hey, if they kill a couple hundred people in their new market, well so what, all people gonna die oneday anyway right ?

I mean let's face it, people are just a bunch of molecules and chemicals anyway, so what the heck.

 

The FACTS that drugs kill, ruin peoples lives and bring nothing but misery, is nothing but a load of propaganda spread by those stupid goodie goodie two-shoes, facists, who know

nothing anyway.

 

Whoo hoo, Draconix, I'm with you babe :thumbsup:

 

Nice round of sarcasm there. And I didn't even need the hint of tags.

 

Legalizing ALL drugs would be a mistake, I will grant you that. However, where our opinions diverge, is that ALL drugs kill. That is patently untrue. Pot hasn't killed anyone directly. The fact that it is illegal has killed thousands. 90% of the violence in Mexico is drug cartels fighting to control smuggling routes/turf. Legalize pot, which can be grown anywhere, and a fair bit of their market just disappears.

 

I would also point out, that alcohol kills more folks that a fair number of currently illegal drugs. So, by your reasoning, alcohol should be illegal as well. We tried that once. It didn't work out so well. Alcohol was still readily available, and crime went UP. Where there is a demand, there will be a supply. The war on drugs is a losing battle, even after better than 10 years of "war", pot, coke, and heroin are more readily available today, than they were ten years ago. We are losing the war on drugs. We are flushing money down the toilet in incarcerated criminals, additional law enforcement, and providing the criminal element with a never ending revenue stream. Legalizing drugs would not only eliminate these costs, but, would also generate revenue in the form of taxes, create a whole new industry, and put some of us back to work.

 

Legalize pot, and cocaine. Dramatically reduce the REASONS for the violence south of the border, and even without our own borders, stop spending billions on a war we simply cannot win, create jobs, and tax revenue. How is that a bad thing?

 

Your stance would also have us ban alcohol. Giving the criminals yet another revenue stream. Terribly sorry, I see absolutely zero sense in that.

[marharth]

How is discussing the legalization of drugs as a way to decrease border violence not relevant to the topic?

 

I wouldn't go as far as saying your opinion is nonsense though. I understand your point of view, and I would prefer to stay respectful as possible.

 

Drugs are not okay. The problem is the issues drugs cause by being illegal. We can all agree drugs can have terrible health issues as well as other things. Most people do the drugs they want to do anyways, making them legal wouldn't cause anymore problems then we have today and can solve quite a few violence issues and economic problems.

[Ghogiel]

So basically anyone who is against legalisation doesn't have a better idea of how to reduce the violence.

 

Has there been any better reasonable course of action, besides the legalisation and not selling them guns?

 

As for the guns, yeah that can work to some degree, they'll just source from China and Russia though, and it's not like they don't have enough guns already.

Edited August 27, 2011 by Ghogiel

[kvnchrist]

Well, I still think that legalizing drugs will both remedy the violence on the border and give the American Economy a boost. Drugs would not have the bad boy mystique that it does now. That would make it less appealing to the youth of today. It would also allow growers inside the U.S. to get another cash crop. It would surely have quality control placed on it and be taxable.

 

Also, I think that a lot of these countries are effected by our drug policy, and would turn around if America legalized theirs. There would be drug trade, instead of drug smuggling between these countries. I know the cartels would find some other vice, but how many of these other vices would effect whole areas of the countries.

[bben46]

This is an official moderator warning.

The next rant about legalizing or not legalizing drugs gets this topic closed. The topic IS NOT on legalizing/Not legalizing drugs but on how to stop the border violence. Using this as a soap box to promote your own personal opinion on drugs is topic hijacking and could subject you to being removed (banning)

 

However, as drugs are a major enabling source of the problems, I will allow suggestions on just exactly how legalizing drugs will stop the cartel wars that are the primary cause of this violence. BUT NOT rants on whether pot cures or causes cancer. :rolleyes:

 

Bben46, Moderator