The reason why I hate The Abusers of the System

[JDGameArt]

 

 

My comment was not meant to be insulting by the way, was just joking.

 

I didn't take the Bill O'Reilly comment as an insult. It was funny, I lol'ed.

 

 

 

[Lisnpuppy]

I talked about this before but I will use it again to illustrate the issue. It may seem like just stopping spending will solve everything but it won't. IF anything it may mean that funds need to be allotted to get people in that are willing to work and get people out of the welfare system that do not belong. Its current set up encourages you to stay on welfare because if you work then you will be worse off that if you stayed on welfare.

 

 

My personal example:

 

When I graduated college I immediately got a job and after a couple of months I was out on my own again and working full time. For several years this went on and then I became pregnant. I work then began having complications. I had to leave my job (we did not have FMLA coverage at the time and disability insurance was not offered. I managed a bookstore.) I suddenly found myself unemployed, boyfriendless, pregnant and living with my Mother who thankfully took me in. I swallowed my pride and went into the Heath and Human Services Department as I knew I would be eligible for a health insurance card until the birth of my daughter. I also applied for food stamps and all the other stuff.

 

To begin I was told that to qualify for monthly payments I would have to attend job training..which obviously I could not do...and really wouldn't help me as I could get gainful employment and had a college degree. The were no exceptions written into the rules so I was out of luck there. After all the paperwork was done I was eligible for $112 per month in food stamps and the health insurance. I asked them if I had not lived with my Mother what I would have done and the case worker looked at me and shrugged. Then I was told it was fortunate that the car I had was in my Father's name as if it had been in mine (it was a gift from my Grandmother and paid in full) I would not have qualified for anything as the vehicle was an asset. Basically I would have had to sell it first. If I would have tried to work..even though I was told not to do anything by my doctor....If I worked more than 12 hrs a week I would have lost my food stamps. This worker was harried and had literally HUNDREDS of cases. There is no way ANYONE can keep up with that kind of claims load to even put out fires much less do any followups or investigations.

 

After I had my daughter the food stamps doubled. I still didn't qualify for anything else and I got a job as soon as I could. However to work...I had to find child care...I no longer was on welfare after that...insurance was through my new job. But then I had to pay $450/month on child care alone. I didn't qualify for any further assistance. Even some assistance for child care would have helped. Yes I was being in effect punished for working if I had been able to qualify for these things I would have been better off staying on welfare than working.

 

So you see the programs are set up to NOT help the folks that are the reason these programs were started to begin. Yet as I sat there I watched a tall man of perhaps his early twenties, he looked well-built and strong. wearing nice professional sports wear...walk in to pick up his welfare check along with his "woman" and their slew of children. Because if you keep having kids when you qualify for welfare then you get to stay on it. Because the government typically does not interfere in civil liberties no one is made to take family counseling or family planning.

 

Do any of you really think that just taking the money away from these programs will solve the issue? Perhaps if we all participated more in our local charities but this time every year I listen to the food banks and places that provide warm coats and clothing to the needy..BEGGING for donations.

 

The American people need to rise up and DEMAND that our elected officials stop playing games, playing the dems vs the republicans and vice versa. No more pointing fingers just get the damn stuff done. Until that happens things will remain the status quo.

[kvnchrist]

 

As far as a solution goes? The answers to the problems are so dumb simple it's almost comical. Stop Spending!

 

That'll be great Just stop spending. Take them all out. Those needing and those not. That isn't solving the problem, that creating a big one. All you need to do is look at Greece to see what happens when you stop, cold turkey on everyone.

An entire generation of people were brought up with the idea of "more" and "I want it now." From the late 1990's to 2007 the entire country was run off a Big Fat credit card. Heck even Bush jr. can take some heat for this. We were spending, and building, and waisting, and spending, and building, and setting up programs with no end in sight...

 

The war on poverty started during the Johnson administration.

 

Now the answer "NO" is drilled into peoples minds as blasphemy. "No, you cant have an entitlement". "No, you can't have free money." A person running for office saying these kind of things fear not getting in, or reelected.

 

 

The Welfare program discourages anyone to get off it. Please read this

 

welfare plus

 

People who can work and do, need to be weened off the system. Those that fraudulently get assistance need to repay the system by working for the state for full state wages and have a percentage of that pay removed from their checks, before they receive it. They should also spend a time in jail, on a work release. Spend the night in jail and released for work in the morning. The court fees and the cost of incarceration should also be recouped. After that, they should be placed in a halfway house while they transfers from that government job to a civilian job.

 

People who have reached their limit on cash payment of public assistance, could also be placed, this way, so that they may receive on the job training, and I bet the public would get less arrogant office workers when they come to do business with the state.

[Kendo 2]

Okay, People here are smart enough to put two and two together.

I've checked a few government websites to get some factual data on this subject...and I can't link any of them or post their pie charts . If I did, I'd be violating whacky yet sacred Nexus rules because the info is self evident, politically incorrect, and the truth.

 

This going to be like talking about cake recipes, but we can't use the words 'flour' or 'eggs' or state that we need a 9x12 cake pan.

 

That pretty much relegates this to an 'I have an opinion that can't be debunked' thread.

[JDGameArt]

That'll be great Just stop spending. Take them all out. Those needing and those not. That isn't solving the problem, that creating a big one. All you need to do is look at Greece to see what happens when you stop, cold turkey on everyone.

 

Take this guy in the video for example. Do you honestly think he would like to get off assistance? There are people out there that truly need, and deserve assistance from the Govt. / Taxpayers. However I believe the majority of them are working the system, even if it's to a small degree.

 

My mother was telling me of the experience she had at the grocery store not too long ago. She's standing at the checkout counter somewhat frustrated at the price of groceries. A few minuets later a group of foreigners come rolling up with a grocery cart absolutely BURSTING, and overflowing with all kinds of food, and pay for it with food stamps. It absolutely pissed her off that she, a full time, 40 hour a week, tax paying worker has to scrimp and scrape to pay for food, and someone that just came over here from god knows where gets a free ride.

 

Is this a fair and balanced system?

 

Edit:

 

Okay, People here are smart enough to put two and two together.

I've checked a few government websites to get some factual data on this subject...and I can't link any of them or post their pie charts . If I did, I'd be violating whacky yet sacred Nexus rules because the info is self evident, politically incorrect, and the truth.

 

This going to be like talking about cake recipes, but we can't use the words 'flour' or 'eggs' or state that we need a 9x12 cake pan.

 

That pretty much relegates this to an 'I have an opinion that can't be debunked' thread.

 

 

Are you serous about this, or just kidding? I mean why even have a debate forum then?

 

 

Edited September 21, 2011 by Angilla

[Lisnpuppy]

I don't even know why I bother posting in these things sometimes.

[Ghogiel]

They should also spend a time in jail, on a work release. Spend the night in jail and released for work in the morning. The court fees and the cost of incarceration should also be recouped. After that, they should be placed in a halfway house while they transfers from that government job to a civilian job.

 

If I am not mistaken, incarceration costs quite a bit to fund in itself. You can already receive fines and jail time for committing fraud. So I am not entirely sure what you are suggesting that would be much different.

[HeyYou]

We don't need to scrap the programs completely, we just need to far better oversight, and a more reasonable caseload for the workers.

[ffa1mf]

Given the video and particularly the one poster’s experience (thanx for sharing that, it was quite enlightening), if this is typical of the system, then I have to agree that the system is not just flawed, it’s broken, and badly. Even if it isn't typical, the system needs work as there is obviously something wrong with it. I have to admit I have no familiarity with the system in my own country – I have never really thought about it much, but I am wondering how badly off it is as well.

 

I wonder though, if the gentleman in the video even understands what the system is for or how the system works or if he is just pretending at being uninformed. Sort of risky in a courtroom, but it did make me wonder.

 

I also agree that the problems likely do extend back to the lack of clearly defined rules for the system and the case load placed on the workers. The “do more with less” concept practised by governments (and even industry), pretty much world wide, also has a lot to do with many of the problems we see and have, I suspect.

 

Perhaps someone may correct me, but the advice given to “Liberals and Obama supporters” to watch the video didn’t make sense to me. Obama is a liberal democrat (I think?) and was he not part of the effort to finally pass a law to move people from welfare to work that was initiated by Clinton (a republican?), a law that was largely ignored by Bush (a republican?), and that has been relatively successful in reducing the number of people on welfare?

It may be because I am not an American and do not have a full understanding of the political system, so I wouldn’t mind if someone could explain the point of view or debate the statement makes, as it seems contradictory to me.

 

I would also like to ask which part the individual who posted, “An entire generation of people were brought up with the idea of "more" and "I want it now." is a part of; ie: the part that brought up the generation and taught them to expect “more” and “now” or a part of the generation making the demands for “more” and “now”, as debate is awkward without knowing which side the poster stands.

[SpellAndShield]

Welfare and entitlements are not constitutional to begin with, that's the first problem, the second problem is that they don't work efficiently but then again almost nothing the federal government does is efficient. Scrap them all and save the money to cut the skyrocketing deficit.