Ashton Silo choices? (SPOILER)

[greenknightfury]

 

I didn't like the linear nature of Dead Money either, but at least it had some great characters and humor. Plus the choices I made I could live with, and had no real choice but to go forward. Wheras in Lonesome Road the only reasonable choice is to just leave the Divide and let Ulysses stew in his own self pity. Sorry, but after DLC like Old World Blues, they set the bar pretty high for what you can achieve in DLC. And they failed by a couriers mile and then some. Hell, OWB had a set of armor with more personality than everyone in Lonesome Road put together, and the dome brains had me rolling on the floor in laughter. It is as if they said 'Hey OWB was an incredible success, lets do the exact opposite for the final DLC to try to make up for us forgetting to add a backstory to the Courier in the main game.'

 

Really disappointed with Obsidian on this to be honest. If FO1 had been like this, I would never have gotten to FO2.

 

 

I totally agree. Frankly I always thought Lonesome Road felt like a half finished mod more than a professional DLC. Bad story structure, no really motivation behind it other than learning about your past and confronting a guy that you want to confront because...they said you were going to (and a little bit that he set the entire "shot in the head" situation, sort of, by not taking the job since your name was next in the list). Missing bits of it's bonus content (even using the GECK and console, I cannot find all the ED-E backstory posters) and unbalanced enemies that will doom the Mojave no matter what you do in the end. That last bit just feels like a big middle finger to you every time.

 

And worst of all, ruining the games established lore. "You walked the path from the NCR to the Mojave enough to create a nation." Then why does no-one recognize you? Did your getting shot in the head give the entire Mojave and NCR amnesia, on top of your own? Someone that created a rival nation would have gotten the attention and be recognized and known by all the high ranked NCR especially those stationed at the far side of the pass it was in, and there is no way that you aren't recognized by Mojave inhabitants as well, particularly Nash.

Edited July 14, 2014 by greenknightfury

[greenknightfury]

the whole point of Lonesome road is that its not funny. it shows just how devastating one decision can be, and just how much can be lost. its about the darker side of the world of Fallout. yes its linear as hell, and has some great weapons, but I think its story is great! it is telling a great story that just starts to eat at you as you play through. also the guy who voiced Ulysses was awesome. I do agree that with all the hype put into it from the previous DLCs kinda made it seem lame. I honestly don't care though I just like the story that is being told.

 

But it's a stupid story: "You brought a package here, it set off all the nukes, now you should feel bad and die. Or not feel bad and kill a bunch of people horribly." Along with all the problems it creates for the rest of the game story by giving you the past it does (and the gaping hole of mystery past it leaves) and the fact it forces you to add 20-some years to the age of your Courier given the timeline it gives for it's backstory.

 

It's just poorly written and poorly executed all around.

[zetenrisiel]

I guess I roleplay differently, I went through will an intelligent, yet no nonsense type of character who had no reason to assume that A) the second silo would work differently than before and B) that a 200 year old nuke that failed to denonate would all of the sudden work.

 

I ran over and slammed the button, said to myself "did that say launch?" And then watched in horror at what I had just done, which added a nice bit of context for the rest of the story in the divide.

 

While we are logging complaints, it always seemed a bit odd that after all this time of trying to goad you into a fight, one speech check at the end was enough to turn him into an ally. Dont get me wrong, i loved the fact that it is an option and the ensuing battle feels more epic because of it, but it didnt really feel like I "earned" that moment.

 

Also, why was Ulysses former legion? That whole thing felt like a shoehorned attempt to tie Lonesome road back into Honest hearts, and wasnt necessary. OWB and DM did a perfect job of setting up a badass Gary Oak type who had already been where you were, did what you couldn't do, or did it better, and was somewhere out there waiting for a reckoning. Then at the end of the journey we get "oh yeah i used to be legion too, and thats why I was out there with the white-legs, also they are posers for copying my hairstyle because they totally dont get the significance of it man..."

 

I guess to Gophers main point and the tone of the DLC, I would say: If you are not the courier who would push that button to get to Ulysses, then you are not the courier he was waiting for.

[greenknightfury]

I guess to Gophers main point and the tone of the DLC, I would say: If you are not the courier who would push that button to get to Ulysses, then you are not the courier he was waiting for.

 

Problem being all the Courier he is waiting for did was deliver a package to his buddies in the country that started where he had made safe for people again. Why does that translate to "is willing to cause mass destruction"? I mean, yeah, obviously Ulysses is insane; but nothing in the story as left gives an impression that there is any reason to be randomly destructive. Hell, Ulysses is doing this to show you "Actions have consequences, even if you have no idea that bad might happen, it's still your fault." then he tries to trick you into horrible actions.

 

Of course everything in the LR story reinforces the officially denied fact that: The Courier has amnesia! Which is an odd thing to deny when the dialog is peppered with plenty of examples of your amnesia, like your first convo with Veronica, where you can tell her you aren't sure where you are from because of your amnesia from being shot in the head.

[Danny159]

I don't think it's actually that big of an explosion regardless...

You only blow up a rather small area, if a real life nuke would hit the Couriers mile.

All of the Divide would be gone and then some...

 

Why are the ICBM's in Fallout so much weaker then their real life counter part?

[moirai]

An old thread, but a good one, courtesy of Gopher. :wink:

 

I had no issues with LR's plot since, for me, my Courier Six was not the one who destroyed the Divide.

 

Ulysses is Ex-Legion and a complete psychopath. He is the one who destroyed the Divide, to hit the NCR hard, pure and simple. In his own screwed up way, he sees all Couriers as the same, as if they are all product of the same mould, and is simply projecting his crimes on you, because, well...we are fundamentally the same, aren't we, Courier Six...? In his mind, or what's left of it, you are him, and he is you. Both are Six.

 

And while he talks to you, he is actually perceiving it as conversing with himself, just as he did with the tapes. The two Six's are inseparable in his mind.

 

He states that the Hoover Dam is all Caesar can see now, and feels that it is clouding Caesar's judgement on things. So he wishes to remove that point of focus, so that Caesar will return to see the bigger picture again. In essence, he wants to fire the nukes he has discovered and destroy the dam and Vegas. So, he uses you/him, to get the launch codes, which he is now incapable of returning to retrieve.

 

And this is the point; you (new Courier Six) were never responsible for the destruction of the Divide. That was wrought by him (old Courier Six). He just sees the two of you as inexorably linked in his mind, and rationalises his decisions by projecting them on that other part of himself.

 

This is the reason why my character had no issues in killing Ulysses.

 

She is also the same character from my F3 playthrough, and in the intervening years has travelled west to discover more about the BoS and their origins. She has seen the many atrocities perpetrated by the Legion in her travels and hates them with avengeance, and, subsequently, has no issues with nuking the Legion camp. She dislikes the control freak nature of the NCR, yes. But at least they don't act like barbarians and take slaves, put bombs around peoples necks or crucify people.

 

As for the Ashton Silo; even though you/Courier Six are not stupid, there is no fundamental reason why you would think that repeating the same action (to open doors) at the same style of consol you encountered at Hopeville would do anything different here at Ashton. Besides, it makes no sense for a launch control to be external from a silo and next to a door leading into a silo. Not a jot. Therefore, no matter how savvy you consider your character, there is no legitimate reason why your in-game character would connect the dots in that way without the player meta-gaming with their own knowledge, based on a quest name, of which your character isn't aware.

 

Even as the player, armed, ahem, with that knowledge, the is no reason to assume that any 'launch' would take place prior to actually entering the silo, since that is where the controls to do so would logically be located. Neither is there is any reason to assume that you, the player/character, would also be the one to initiate it or, if that is indeed the case, would do so without knowing the ICBM's destination.

[SlothLikeSin]

You are blowing this completely out of proportion, guys. Especially you, Gopher.

There's no such thing as a "good guy" in Fallout: New Vegas. There's no such thing as an intelligent character in Fallout: New Vegas.

 

The character you described sounds a lot like Jack, Gopher, so we'll use him as an example. He's a "good guy" and he's intelligent, right?

 

1. Would a "good guy" and intelligent character launch rockets so close to Novac when he has no real idea if they're still in working condition? Could easily have blown up the town.

2. Would a "good guy" and intelligent character arm a doomsday weapon without knowing where the trigger for it actually is? For all he knows, some kid might have it with the safety off...

3. Would a "good guy" and intelligent character shoot someone just because they were asked to? Would they just assume anyone they meet in the wastes is hostile without reason? Would they break into homes or sneak into caves and kill everyone and anyone on sight, regardless of whether those people might just be acting in self-defense to an intruder?

 

The answer to all of those is no. No. In every sense of the word, no.. Yet Lonesome Road is an issue, why? The entire game, you do things without thinking about the consequences of your actions. The entire game, but you only take issue with the final DLC? I don't get it.

[Gopher]

The entire game, you do things without thinking about the consequences of your actions. The entire game, but you only take issue with the final DLC? I don't get it.

No. I would take issue with any quest that forced me to do something so stupid and suicidal, without it having some massively over riding reason for me to do so. I just can't do it. I am not that good a role player. Even for someone as reckless and self absorbed as Jack, I cannot think of a reason that he would launch a nuke. The examples you gave as being similar are just not remotely similar actually. I can think of plenty of people in real life who do reckless and dangerous things without thinking. People who put their own lives and the lives of others at risk often without even realizing it. But I cannot think of a single person who would finish the firing sequence on an old nuke for any reason whatsoever! I just cannot. It is ridiculous to even consider to be honest.

 

Diving off the top floor of a building into a shallow pool below is stupid. Driving too fast or whilst drunk is reckless and inconsiderate. But setting off a nuke is insane.

[BeowulfSchmidt]

After reading though this thread, I have to say I agree with those who are calling bullspit on this one. What sane person would take the chance?

 

I take it there's still no mod out there that allows for an alternate path, like cancelling or disabling the launch sequence before entering?

[charwo]

Actually, I have a solution, both in and out of character, to both of Gopher's questions. The first time I played LR, I had no idea whatsoever that the lever was going to release the nuke. I thought it was the emergency hatch release for the bunker, then thought it was the release of the missile, given there was no active order to launch. Ulysses launched that nuke, ti was the moment when you see just how dangerous and deranged he is.

As to the other questions, I have a story, a rather plausible story on how the Divide was destroyed and Benny got the Courier. My stupidly overpowered Courier, who is an ex-vampire (I'm apologizing to the character for putting her in another game, just go with it), with the Divide, she was told what the package was, she tried to warn the NCR techs that it was Enclave tech and probably booby trapped by Enclave personnel to take revenge against the "muties" They told her everything would be taken care of, she offered to help with science knowledge, they told her to piss off government business. And she ended up fleeing east for several years because she feared she was going to get blamed for for the blowup.

Benny had it stupid easy owing to realtime updates from Yes Man The Courier picked up the package in the San Fransisco office, drove all day through California in her hoverbike, watched over the entire time by House's informants, got something to eat at the Prospectors, was micky'ed by Benny, she passed the endurance check due to pre-war gene-editing, but being more drunk than she thought, sped right through a wire trap like one of the scout troopers in Return of the Jedi. Of course Benny couldn't take on a badass Courier in Elite Riot Armor with a tricked out Recharger Rifle from WMX (it makes the Repeater AWESOME), so he ambushed her and waylaid her like any cunning tribal would do. She didn't win the fight because there was no fight to be had.

Those buggy questions do have good solid answers to them. Those are my Courier's. Does that help?