Is chivilery dead

[Lisnpuppy]

Even though I feel this question is best answered by the distaff members of the forum I'll give one personal answer..no. It only requires one knight errant to keep an ideal alive and to pass it along, I have yet to see a lady of any age object to be teated chivalrously and it simply a matter of good manners and breeding to continue the tradition. If the younger generation cannot see their way to be chivalrous then it's their loss and an indictment of their manners IMO. The smile of any lady when you hold open a door, give up a seat, allow them to precede you through an entrance is well worth the minor effort.

 

 

This is a social question and has to do with manners and respect for thoseof the fairer sex. I don't think it has anything exclusively to do with the staff of any site. I do feel that the the value of honor and respect are slowly slipping away, and as a society, it's loss will gravely reduce our humanity to each other.

 

*cough* I believe "distaff" means in this instance...of or concerning women...not the staff of a forum. If that isn't what you mean I apologize.

[kvnchrist]

Even though I feel this question is best answered by the distaff members of the forum I'll give one personal answer..no. It only requires one knight errant to keep an ideal alive and to pass it along, I have yet to see a lady of any age object to be teated chivalrously and it simply a matter of good manners and breeding to continue the tradition. If the younger generation cannot see their way to be chivalrous then it's their loss and an indictment of their manners IMO. The smile of any lady when you hold open a door, give up a seat, allow them to precede you through an entrance is well worth the minor effort.

 

 

This is a social question and has to do with manners and respect for thoseof the fairer sex. I don't think it has anything exclusively to do with the staff of any site. I do feel that the the value of honor and respect are slowly slipping away, and as a society, it's loss will gravely reduce our humanity to each other.

 

*cough* I believe "distaff" means in this instance...of or concerning women...not the staff of a forum. If that isn't what you mean I apologize.

 

 

Thank you for that.My vocabulary isn't the best as you can tell.

[pseudobio]

If you mean chivalry as showing simple courtesy and respect to all people, it isn't quite dead yet, but it is on life-support.

 

If you mean it as putting women at center stage as the weaker gender, it is dead, buried, and hopefully lost to all time. Good riddance.

 

To me, Chivalry has always been about showing simple courtesy and respect to all, like in holding a door open regardless of gender, age, or even species (men, women, children, and canine and feline pets), greeting people with a smile and a kind word, helping out those in need of help, ect. Unfortunately, even that definition of chivalry is under assault, and may be dying out, and that is not good.

[Ghogiel]

People have been saying it's been degrading for literally centuries.

 

I have my own opinion of what a real man is. Compassion and kindness is high on the list of virtues. I'm sorry if women are getting involved with ain't s*** guys< that's on them I suppose. I'll be doing my thing and letting others get on with theirs. Life is short to get too lazy... I say that on a Sunday where I've done pretty much nothing productive. :biggrin:

 

I see there is perhaps more to be said for the way western society might be promoting lethargy just generally, I am not entirely convinced that this is something men in particular are suffering from. I would have to check some data, which I can't be bothered to do atm, but it might be backed up circumstantially with both the increasing number of women getting degrees and being less unemployed at the end of the day. Now what I can't grasp is where something like that, or anything , might lead to the notion guys are treating women with less decent respect. I kinda see women having much more room to manurer now then ever before, imo primarily because men have moved out of the way or rather got some part of their head out of their asses... have they just moved to the sofa though I don't know.

[Vagrant0]

Back to the matter at hand...

 

Although the views of women as a lesser have gone away, and there are some who even refuse when you hold the door for them, I have yet to see instances of people going out of their way to be rude (pulling doors closed behind them when they know someone is coming), or even being all that outright selfish. The pricks and douche-bags of the world are still easy to spot because there is still a fair amount of contrast... there are just more of them.

[grannywils]

As is frequently the case in many of these threads, first I went to my trusty dictionary for an exact definiton of the word "chivalry". In large part it refers to knights and medieval systems of knighthood, gallant warriors and fair ladies.

 

I may be mistaken, but I believe our OP was referring to something a bit more current, such as courtesy and manners and fair treatment of our fellow human beings. If I am incorrect, he may say so in his next post.

 

My belief is as follows: To a large extent manners are losing their grip in general. However, when used, they seem to have a monumental impact. As Aurielius's withdrawn post indicated, if you open a door or give up your seat to someone, you will receive a very positive (and sometimes amazed) response. I'm not so sure that the gender issue is so important. I believe it has to do with being polite and helpful. The reason for the sometimes shocked response is that it is becoming more and more unusual to see this behaviour in our workaday world. Many do not take the time to pay attention to their fellow human beings as they scurry through the day. I have literally been stepped over when I tripped on the streets of NYC and fell to the ground during the morning rush hour. People were in such a hurry to get to work that I was just an impediment to their day. This is not an unusual scenario anymore.

 

However, having said all of that, manners and gracious behaviour do still exist on an individual basis, and I do believe that they will not be lost; as long as those of us who understand their importance continue to express them and treat one another with the respect we all deserve. That would have course include our treatment of one another on these very forums.

[kvnchrist]

The reason people are so surprised is that such actions are no longer expected. This is not a sexual thing, but a thing of responsibility, to oneself and to others. Doing what is necessary to not become a burden on society. Having manners is the most visible component, but by far, not the most important. I think pride has been transformed. It no longer is something felt by those who stand up and pick themselves off the ground, by their own boot straps. It is how well they scheme to use and abuse the system. In many parts of America it is a right of passage to go to jail and the ladies have no problem with being called holes and working, without help by the men in their lives.

[draconix]

I consider myself a well-mannered young man from the midwest, I never had to be told to hold doors for people, nor been told to say please, thank you or excuse me, I just felt that it was the right thing to do. It's habitual for me to do these things and it really seems like no big deal. The responses I get for such courtesies however, are seldom amazement, shock, or gratitude. Instead, people will treat you like the door-man, or like a homeless person asking for a donation. They just walk right through, don't make eye-contact, not a thanks, not a nod. If "Chivalry" is dying, it's because ungratefulness is killing it.

 

Not that it'll keep me from continuing to be well mannered. I'll just be the one who ends up being surprised, amazed or feeling gratitude when someone acknowledges my chivalry. http://www.thenexusforums.com/public/style_emoticons/dark/rolleyes.gif

[HeyYou]

I consider myself a well-mannered young man from the midwest, I never had to be told to hold doors for people, nor been told to say please, thank you or excuse me, I just felt that it was the right thing to do. It's habitual for me to do these things and it really seems like no big deal. The responses I get for such courtesies however, are seldom amazement, shock, or gratitude. Instead, people will treat you like the door-man, or like a homeless person asking for a donation. They just walk right through, don't make eye-contact, not a thanks, not a nod. If "Chivalry" is dying, it's because ungratefulness is killing it.

 

Not that it'll keep me from continuing to be well mannered. I'll just be the one who ends up being surprised, amazed or feeling gratitude when someone acknowledges my chivalry. http://www.thenexusforums.com/public/style_emoticons/dark/rolleyes.gif

 

I am an older guy (50), with long hair past my shoulders, usually wearing jeans, and a t-shirt, and of late, some kind of light jacket... (been chilly). I am not what anyone would consider 'well-dressed', in fact, one could say, I look 'scruffy'. (although, I did shave for the first time in several weeks the other day......) I 'look like' the kind of guy you want your children to stay away from. That is, until you actually interact with me. If I hold the door for someone, I make sure to look them directly in the eye, and smile nicely at them. (and sometimes, I will comment "Carlton, your doorman", and bow.....) 99.99% of the time, I can visibly SEE these people relax, as they smile back at me, and thank me. Or, just a simple "enjoy your meal" if they are going into a restaurant, or whathaveyou. If you stand there silent as a tomb, folks get nervous. If you make light hearted banter, folks respond in kind. Body language plays a BIG role here. As does tone of voice. You can actually make a game out of it, just to see how MUCH of a response you can elicit. (I LOVE making the kids laugh. :D That never hurts.)

[Maigrets]

Has the advancement in the counter culture and the thriving attraction to leach of the the social programs, by those capable of working, placing a tombstone on the ideal of chivalry. Has more liberal views of the roles of men and women, in our society made such ideals archaic?

 

Are many of the young ladies of today excepting less responsible and less driven young men into their hearts and into their beds. If they are, is this lowering of standards, attributable to self esteem issues or are they looking more for those young men, with the bad boy image?

 

No matter what, Is this lowering of standards, teaching their children that in order to be a real man, you are to lay around the house, playing games, while the women work.?

 

This might not fit for those here, since the education level here is far above the mainstream. I am looking at society as a whole.

 

I find myself wondering what social programs and the desire to work or not, or in fact the ability to actually be able to find work, has to do with good manners and standards of decency. I read your post several times and it still seems to me that it's implying people of a lower socioeconomic status are the ones who lack or have lost these social skills. The question should cover all levels of social status not just the those on welfare, whether they are in that situation by design or circumstance.

 

I know people who left their "chivalry' behind when they climbed the corporate ladder stepping over anyone who didn't, and don't fit with their social status. One being a family member who went from a kind and thoughtful person to a selfish and money driven individual in an executive position who wouldn't give you the time of day unless you paid him.

 

I also don't see what education level, especially combined with the social programs scenario has to do with basic manners and decent behaviour either. Basic decency and knowing inside oneself when something is right or wrong is a trait that's inherent in a person's nature, no matter what kind of upbringing a person has had. I'm not talking about law and regulations imposed by government or society itself, but simple human behaviour. Manners and general courtesy aren't things that can be learned except by rote and example. It's not necessarily always genuine either when they don't come naturally or are forced.

 

Speaking for myself, I think the true definition of chivalry as mentioned by grannywils, causes more harm than good in today's society. It still carries the implication that women are less intelligent, more fragile than men and should be hidden away as well as unheard and thought of as property. That type of archaic attitude is more often than not a false sense of superiority and fear disguised as caring and protection.

 

Not that I think this is what you meant kvnchrist, as the real meaning of the word chivalry is quite different than what it seems you were asking. Society as a whole should be aiming for respect on all levels, not dependent on gender or any other social status. As long as that respect is warranted and earned by all sides of course.

 

@ HeyYou

 

Yes. As the saying goes "a smile is worth a thousand words." A simple and free thing that feels good and brings delight to many. :)