Steam: For or Against

[Vindekarr]

I reall,y really. really don't like steam, earlier this year I was *forced* to re-register my account after it was hacked. Steam refused to do anything to retrieve it, despite it being THEIR faulty security that caused it to be lost, and even had the balls to accuse ME of "telling others my password" Not only was this costly, but the "customer support" was the worst I have ever seen with the possible exception of Dell(who at the time sold used, recycled computers installed in new cases as new machines) It was 3 weeks before I got a response to my CS ticket, they blamed me for the security breach, condecendingly told me I was at fault, and offered me not even an apology, let alone any help. Frankly the whole idea of this overgrown DRM I find unsettling, but their "customer support" is just beyond terrible. >:(

 

If your customer's account and then their personal details stolen off YOUR database, the least you can do is offer an apology and perhaps to retrieve the account, condecending emails and unreturned phone calls just make people bitter.

[lukertin]

Used to be a game shop around the coasts of the US called play'n'trade that ran almost completely off people selling their games to them, and them reselling them.

 

Also gamestop buys and resells games.

Not computer games.

[marharth]

Some gamestops do buy and sell PC games. Its not very common since console games are in higher demand.

[lukertin]

Some gamestops do buy and sell PC games. Its not very common since console games are in higher demand.

 

Here are some example TOS from computer games. Console games don't even a TOS.

 

Starcraft 2:

 

"1. Subject to your agreement to and continuing compliance with this License Agreement, Blizzard hereby grants, and you hereby accept, a limited, non-transferable, non-sublicensable, non-exclusive license to (a) install the Game on one or more computers owned by you or under your legitimate control, (b) use the Game in conjunction with the Service for your noncommercial entertainment purposes only, subject to the terms of Section 2© below; and © to make and distribute copies of the Game to other potential users free of any charge for use solely on the Service. All use of the Game, or any copy of the Game, is subject to this License Agreement and to the Terms of Use, both of which must be accepted before the Game can be played."

"7. THE GAME IS LICENSED, NOT SOLD. NEITHER THE GAME NOR THE LICENSE GRANTED IN SECTION 1 MAY BE SUBLICENSED OR TRANSFERRED TO ANY OTHER PERSON OR ENTITY, AND ANY ATTEMPT TO DO SO SHALL BE NULL AND VOID."

 

Dragon Age: Origins:

 

"1.a. Through this purchase, you are acquiring and EA grants you a personal, limited, non-exclusive license to install and use the Software for your non-commercial use solely as set forth in this License and the accompanying documentation. Your acquired rights are subject to your compliance with this Agreement. Any commercial use is prohibited. You are expressly prohibited from sub-licensing, renting, leasing or otherwise distributing the Software or rights to use the Software, except by transfer as expressly set forth in paragraph 2 below"

"2. You may make a one-time permanent transfer of all your rights to install and use the Software to another individual or legal."

 

So EA explicitly gives you the right to re-sell your license of a physical copy of DA:O. They don't have to. Indeed, not all games published by EA have that clause in them. For Crysis, the license states:

 

"CRYTEK hereby grants to Licensee a limited, personal, non-transferable and non-exclusive right (the "License") during the Term, as defined below, to use CRYSIS in accordance with the instructions provided in the manual or on the packaging of CRYSIS."

 

The reason for it not being common with PC games isn't because of demand, but because of the legal minefield vendors have to navigate through figuring out which games are OK to resell and which aren't.

[marharth]

Some gamestops do buy and sell PC games. Its not very common since console games are in higher demand.

 

Here are some example TOS from computer games. Console games don't even a TOS.

 

Starcraft 2:

 

"1. Subject to your agreement to and continuing compliance with this License Agreement, Blizzard hereby grants, and you hereby accept, a limited, non-transferable, non-sublicensable, non-exclusive license to (a) install the Game on one or more computers owned by you or under your legitimate control, (b) use the Game in conjunction with the Service for your noncommercial entertainment purposes only, subject to the terms of Section 2© below; and © to make and distribute copies of the Game to other potential users free of any charge for use solely on the Service. All use of the Game, or any copy of the Game, is subject to this License Agreement and to the Terms of Use, both of which must be accepted before the Game can be played."

"7. THE GAME IS LICENSED, NOT SOLD. NEITHER THE GAME NOR THE LICENSE GRANTED IN SECTION 1 MAY BE SUBLICENSED OR TRANSFERRED TO ANY OTHER PERSON OR ENTITY, AND ANY ATTEMPT TO DO SO SHALL BE NULL AND VOID."

 

Dragon Age: Origins:

 

"1.a. Through this purchase, you are acquiring and EA grants you a personal, limited, non-exclusive license to install and use the Software for your non-commercial use solely as set forth in this License and the accompanying documentation. Your acquired rights are subject to your compliance with this Agreement. Any commercial use is prohibited. You are expressly prohibited from sub-licensing, renting, leasing or otherwise distributing the Software or rights to use the Software, except by transfer as expressly set forth in paragraph 2 below"

"2. You may make a one-time permanent transfer of all your rights to install and use the Software to another individual or legal."

 

So EA explicitly gives you the right to re-sell your license of a physical copy of DA:O. They don't have to. Indeed, not all games published by EA have that clause in them. For Crysis, the license states:

 

"CRYTEK hereby grants to Licensee a limited, personal, non-transferable and non-exclusive right (the "License") during the Term, as defined below, to use CRYSIS in accordance with the instructions provided in the manual or on the packaging of CRYSIS."

 

The reason for it not being common with PC games isn't because of demand, but because of the legal minefield vendors have to navigate through figuring out which games are OK to resell and which aren't.

I see what you mean, fair point.

[Ghogiel]

Perpetual licenses shouldn't even happen, you should only be subject to the license if you are actually user. The idea that you are bound for life by some companies contract after you have unistalled, stopped using and burnt the disk to their software is a little absurd.

 

Anyway I don't how young you guys are, but it is a fact there has always been a second hand PC games bin for the best part of 2 decades. I have bought many a second hand game both console and PC. Since the early 2000's it dropped off in popularity, first by the ease of file sharing, DC++, kazaa, then later bittorrent. And recently hit home with limited account online activation DRM. Effectively shut down the second hand market on PC games in the past 5 years.

 

Instead of buying a game for a 5er, which you can't really do any more, combined with the crap you have to go through with DRM,

 

As for Steam, I wouldn't have anything to do with it if there was a choice besides> do not play PC games, or Steam- deal with it :pinch:

[Nintii]

I can understand where they are coming from ... the people who create games are fed up with pirates ... this is one way of blocking up that problem.

Yes it's a pain when they go offline but that happens rarely for me anyways.

 

My only REAL hassle was when I purchased a game and when I tried to "register" it or something to that effect, I was informed that that my game was already registered.

What a mission it was to take photographs of my slip from the gaming shop along with the barcodes of nthe game etc and get it off to them.

 

But honestly, beyond that I don't find it a problem at all.

[Lisnpuppy]

I guess it isn't the functioning of Steam...as they do seam to have a better handle on things. Its the concept that if I pay $60 for a game I darn sure better be able to play it when I want. It is my understanding that Skyrim you will HAVE to be online to play it? Is this correct?

 

A great many companies are going to this kind of thing if its Steam or not. Luckily in that past 5 years we have a pretty good cable broadband. Before that it was still the telephone line of love and luck. That would have sucked badly.

 

So I don't like that we are being dictated to about how, when and where we play our games. I never like when companies obtain information on me when I don't really want them to or realize they are doing it. Heck even the "Onstar" System in GM Vehicles is doing it...even to folks who no longer pay for the service. You have to get the actual hardware taken out to keep them from doing it. Wow....

 

So no...I don't like Steam....yes I will use it as...well I am not that much of a hardliner I suppose. I will need a new hobby before that fine day comes. Its just sneaky...I hate sneaky. :confused:

[Unholypaladin]

Valve was a cool company that made cool games yes, and until they created Steam i had a fair bit of respect for valve. I mean its not the convenience, its not the lowsy customer support, its not even the piracy that is the problem with steam. Its the entire idea of steam! The idea that you don't own the video games you pay for! The idea that the software on your computer is not yours! that they could decide to pull the plug at any time for any reason what so ever! Quite basically its not right! and that they can just put on any new inconveniet feature at any time!

 

As i said its understandable for online play, but for single play, in your own house on your computer for a game you payed for, you should be able to do whatever you want! They shouldn't make it so you can only use the software on your computer if they are watching you! I have heard lots of negative arguments against steam, but there doesn't seem to be a positive here! A few achievments and features don't make up for the long list of invasive and offensive policies they put in place. Steam only attacks the paying customer, it doesn't make it any harder for pirates or hackers, so whats the point of it?

[DeadMansFist849]

I actually don't have a problem with it. However, I don't much care for disk versions of games requiring Steam. You can play in offline mode unless it needs to update, obviously, which might be annoying, but other than that I just don't hate Steam. It's fashionable to hate it, it's fashionable to hate everything. I'd rather have Steam than UbiSoft's Assassin's Creed 2 DRM or DRM that installs rootkits (Spore with Securom) really.