sunshinenbrick Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 Insightful... https://www.ted.com/talks/alexander_betts_why_brexit_happened_and_what_to_do_next?language=en#t-157978 EDIT: Related and also interesting --> https://www.ted.com/talks/ivan_krastev_can_democracy_exist_without_trust#t-128928 Brexit grew out of a deep, unexamined divide between those that fear globalization and those that embrace it No, it grew out of a desire to live in a democracy and in many areas a desire to be paid properly, being able to find a school place for your children, being able to see a doctor, being able to afford somewhere to live and not feeling like a foreigner in your own country.Well I'm glad that's all sorted now... :confused: @JaYmZeE311074 - I am glad to find there are others who can see the strings. Anyone who was on the ground during the referendum will know exactly why people wanted out, it doesn't need to be analysed or second guessed. My point was is that one vote does not simply mean, job done. Look at all the immediate backtracking on everything, if people believed that by leaving the EU it would solve all their problems or mean they never have to deal with it, then they be gravely mistaken me thinks... And as for the points made on the change in the make up of the vote, while I am very critical of the EU, I also am in no doubt that politicians of every stripe in the UK have used the EU to deflect issues and to hide their own incompetencies or inability to change things the way people wanted them to be. There has always been a democracy (if one assumes that democracy actually exists) and their voices shouldn't be hushed, in fact as we have seen, the swing has pushed it pretty much down the middle. So now we have a population, in a country that by its very essence has been in a large part built upon immigration, which now has to deal with the questions and physical realities of fixing a divided nation. This is not a binary choice and requires deep and sensible discussion if it is to actually be in our benefit - having a democratic mandate does not necessarily mean (as we have seen over the previous 30 or so years) that things will go the way one hoped they will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimboUK Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 I liked this... http://i.imgur.com/eNQEYzK.jpg Insightful... https://www.ted.com/talks/alexander_betts_why_brexit_happened_and_what_to_do_next?language=en#t-157978 EDIT: Related and also interesting --> https://www.ted.com/talks/ivan_krastev_can_democracy_exist_without_trust#t-128928 Brexit grew out of a deep, unexamined divide between those that fear globalization and those that embrace it No, it grew out of a desire to live in a democracy and in many areas a desire to be paid properly, being able to find a school place for your children, being able to see a doctor, being able to afford somewhere to live and not feeling like a foreigner in your own country.Well I'm glad that's all sorted now... :confused: @JaYmZeE311074 - I am glad to find there are others who can see the strings. Anyone who was on the ground during the referendum will know exactly why people wanted out, it doesn't need to be analysed or second guessed. My point was is that one vote does not simply mean, job done. Look at all the immediate backtracking on everything, if people believed that by leaving the EU it would solve all their problems or mean they never have to deal with it, then they be gravely mistaken me thinks... And as for the points made on the change in the make up of the vote, while I am very critical of the EU, I also am in no doubt that politicians of every stripe in the UK have used the EU to deflect issues and to hide their own incompetencies or inability to change things the way people wanted them to be. There has always been a democracy (if one assumes that democracy actually exists) and their voices shouldn't be hushed, in fact as we have seen, the swing has pushed it pretty much down the middle. So now we have a population, in a country that by its very essence has been in a large part built upon immigration, which now has to deal with the questions and physical realities of fixing a divided nation. This is not a binary choice and requires deep and sensible discussion if it is to actually be in our benefit - having a democratic mandate does not necessarily mean (as we have seen over the previous 30 or so years) that things will go the way one hoped they will. Yes one vote does mean it's done and no one believes that leaving the EU will solve all our problems, no one has ever suggested that. Yeah there's a tough road ahead but this isn't a divided nation, the only people still harping on about it are millennial snowflakes who didn't turn out to vote in the first place and the left wing media, a media desperate for the country to fail. Leadsom will win the Tory leadership, the attacks on her will assure it, the Tory grassroots are nothing like their MPs, she'll invoke Article 50 very quickly, just you watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunshinenbrick Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 Insightful... https://www.ted.com/talks/alexander_betts_why_brexit_happened_and_what_to_do_next?language=en#t-157978 EDIT: Related and also interesting --> https://www.ted.com/talks/ivan_krastev_can_democracy_exist_without_trust#t-128928 Brexit grew out of a deep, unexamined divide between those that fear globalization and those that embrace it No, it grew out of a desire to live in a democracy and in many areas a desire to be paid properly, being able to find a school place for your children, being able to see a doctor, being able to afford somewhere to live and not feeling like a foreigner in your own country.Well I'm glad that's all sorted now... :confused: @JaYmZeE311074 - I am glad to find there are others who can see the strings. Anyone who was on the ground during the referendum will know exactly why people wanted out, it doesn't need to be analysed or second guessed. My point was is that one vote does not simply mean, job done. Look at all the immediate backtracking on everything, if people believed that by leaving the EU it would solve all their problems or mean they never have to deal with it, then they be gravely mistaken me thinks... And as for the points made on the change in the make up of the vote, while I am very critical of the EU, I also am in no doubt that politicians of every stripe in the UK have used the EU to deflect issues and to hide their own incompetencies or inability to change things the way people wanted them to be. There has always been a democracy (if one assumes that democracy actually exists) and their voices shouldn't be hushed, in fact as we have seen, the swing has pushed it pretty much down the middle. So now we have a population, in a country that by its very essence has been in a large part built upon immigration, which now has to deal with the questions and physical realities of fixing a divided nation. This is not a binary choice and requires deep and sensible discussion if it is to actually be in our benefit - having a democratic mandate does not necessarily mean (as we have seen over the previous 30 or so years) that things will go the way one hoped they will. this isn't a divided nation, the only people still harping on about it are millennial snowflakesPerhaps a slight contradiction in terms. It is also an unjust oversimplification - much like most of the referendum itself was. In fact I would like to agree with you that although there are clear splits in demographics and geography when looking at the statistics, the nation isn't necessarily divided yet (which is actually a testament to the fact the EU hasn't had the purely detrimental, imperial like effect so often touted). Neither is division necessarily a negative in a proposed democracy (it is in fact an integral part of it). Whatever the weather it is hard to deny we are at a crossroads of the country's history and I hope we don't make mistakes. I am somewhat confident, but it is important to be aware of these things so as to not become the very things we are supposedly turning away from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harbringe Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 Yes one vote does mean it's done and no one believes that leaving the EU will solve all our problems, no one has ever suggested that. Yeah there's a tough road ahead but this isn't a divided nation, the only people still harping on about it are millennial snowflakes who didn't turn out to vote in the first place and the left wing media, a media desperate for the country to fail. Leadsom will win the Tory leadership, the attacks on her will assure it, the Tory grassroots are nothing like their MPs, she'll invoke Article 50 very quickly, just you watch. I think Leadsom will win . Of all the people who were for Leave she was the most calm and lucid in her arguments , unlike some of them who were being opportunistic , she had very well explained reasons as to why she thought it best to leave . Gove and May on the other hand seemed to play a game of hiding in the background and let others take the lead and see how things shake out , then come to the fore as the bodies fell to the wayside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunshinenbrick Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 You guys were saying... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harbringe Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 You guys were saying... Thats not winning , thats being given . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunshinenbrick Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 You guys were saying... Thats not winning , thats being given . (sorry... :facepalm: I just couldn't resist!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harbringe Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 You guys were saying... Thats not winning , thats being given . (sorry... :facepalm: I just couldn't resist!) I have to ask Sunshine , I've listened to what you have to say and your pretty SJW , fight the man (big Govt,big Corp,bigBank) kinda politics. So this whole Brexit thing it was big Govt ,big Corp , big Bank that were all for Remain and millenials who say in case of austerity would go out and protest against them , yet in this case are actually protesting for what those same big Govt,big Corp , big Bank want . Dont you find this to be a huge contradiction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunshinenbrick Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 You guys were saying... Thats not winning , thats being given . (sorry... :facepalm: I just couldn't resist!) I have to ask Sunshine , I've listened to what you have to say and your pretty SJW , fight the man (big Govt,big Corp,bigBank) kinda politics. So this whole Brexit thing it was big Govt ,big Corp , big Bank that were all for Remain and millenials who say in case of austerity would go out and protest against them , yet in this case are actually protesting for what those same big Govt,big Corp , big Bank want . Dont you find this to be a huge contradiction.You know how reverse psychology works right? Johnson himself even eluded to it numerous times throughout the campaign (even if he and his ilk scare me a little, he is pretty clever and does make me laugh!) Besides, in the long run and on a grander scale, it may not make much difference which way the vote went anyway.. what it will do however, is help those who can, hedge their bets. As for 'saving the world', I just call stuff how I see it, like we all do. I'll freely admit that I also get the wrong end of the stick at times, like we all do. My apologies for trying to interject a little light-hearted humour into this apparent edifice of terror and corruption that awaits us all, but it is important to try keep some perspective, I guess. (??) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FriedGeoduck Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 (edited) A gentleman I know shorted the pound on a currency exchange the day before the vote. He bought them back today and made over $1.8 million US. I should have listened to him. And does "sound as a pound" have the same meaning it once did?? I will not judge the pros or cons of the vote. I will just comment on what I see. There now exists a challenge for the British Lawmakers. Several thousand small and large changes in British law were enacted to abide by EU rules. These laws must now be rolled back to accommodate the new status quo. Migrant farm workers are now trapped. Before the vote, they could move freely about the EU. But post vote these workers have no visa, no work papers, and their EU passports are no longer valid in Britain. Eastern Europeans who emigrated to Britain while it was a part of the EU are now in limbo. It is uncertain whether their emigration to Britain will stand, or if they must leave Britain and return to the EU. Several foreign businesses which were headquartered in Britain must now move their businesses from Britain and back into the EU if they wish to continue their business trade within their EU markets. Several British tourists are now trapped in EU countries. Here again, the British issued EU passport is no longer valid and these tourists do not have legitimate travel papers. There are more, but it is past my bedtime. I may edit this tomorrow. Edited July 12, 2016 by FriedGeoduck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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