imperistan Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I think you have too much faith in humanity. Very few people will help others unless they are forced to. The point isn't to have faith in humanity. Quite the opposite. The point is push humanity to be better by slowly but surely weeding out those who will absolutely refuse to help out by putting the choice in their hands. Those that refuse to help out will only live so long. Their descendants will only maintain whatever resources they hoard for so long until its either all squandered or someone in the family decides to have a heart. If the current state of the economy is causing people to not be nice then why do people who are fine (and actually benefit from the current economy) prefer to donate money to politicians over charities? Because most people who are doing well in this economy (and weren't already doing well before it for that matter) usually had to be right-on greedy bastards to do it. Many of those people actually helped push us into this economy, and they will most likely push as hard as they can not only to maintain their own wealth but to also maintain the status quo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marxist ßastard Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 necessary funds would come in the form of donationsI think taxes should be voluntaryExactly! And we should vote on whether we want blacks in our neighborhood. It's called democracy, sheeple!Wow, failure.What, are you saying that the government should be able to enforce decisions that most people in a given area don't agree with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zegh8578 Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) 1. the notion that taxation is evil comes from pop culture and entertainment (mainly american/capitalism-oriented entertainment) 2. taxation is to share some of your income with the rest of society. people quickly goes "but its MINE!", no, actually, it isnt. figure that one out. 3. the less taxes, the less the actual gvt has to spend with, and the weaker your own nation becomes. where do you think your country would get the money?businesses? its all private, and they refuse to pay tax.residential taxation then? "NO! its MY money! MINE!!!" but, it seems people have made their mind up, look at america and europe. china's laughing their asses off. norway hasnt yet taken part of the economic breakdown of europe, but you know what?we're headed there! IN A HURRY! people are even eagerly proposing privatizing all the oil, and those guys will of course - in turn - refuse to pay taxes :Doh i cant wait. Edited February 13, 2012 by zegh8578 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghogiel Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I think you have too much faith in humanity. Very few people will help others unless they are forced to. The point isn't to have faith in humanity. Quite the opposite. The point is push humanity to be better by slowly but surely weeding out those who will absolutely refuse to help out by putting the choice in their hands. Those that refuse to help out will only live so long. Their descendants will only maintain whatever resources they hoard for so long until its either all squandered or someone in the family decides to have a heart. This verges on eugenics. So you think 'weeding out' people that are not compatible with your moral outlook is acceptable? I refuse to help others by keeping that spare £5 in my pocket when I am presented with dozens of opportunities to help others with it. The ones that do horde and exploit the world around them for personal gain and better exploit the people around them usually end up having or controlling whatever resources these are. Greed pays off in the end, there is no incentive to not to. It has become a virtue. Squandering wealth on charity is seen as a waste. Dunno what you mean when the greedy, vast wealth gathering, hoarding dynasties and institutions will only live so long and their descendants will only maintain the resource control, that is all they intend to do. collect the resources and control them. A decent example is how wealth in the US is oddly distributed, a small ethnic minority group, like 2% of the population, are the wealthiest and own some ridiculous amount of the total wealth. Way back in the middle ages when the Jewish money lender was brought about because of restrictions in Christian law. And that echo is still going strong today. ie their descendants are generally do very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoofhearted4 Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 2. taxation is to share some of your income with the rest of society. people quickly goes "but its MINE!", no, actually, it isnt. figure that one out. actually, yes it is mine. this is a free Capitalist country, everything i make is mine. if we were a socialist communist country, then everything i make would be ours. be we are not. so, everything i make is in fact mine. 3. the less taxes, the less the actual gvt has to spend with, and the weaker your own nation becomes. where do you think your country would get the money? not true. when you cut taxation, you need to cut spending. if you cut taxation and keep or enlarge spending, thats when your country fails. if we cut taxation, but stop going to war, stop paying for welfare, stop giving stimulus packages, and stop printing money to pay your debts, then you will be fine... but, it seems people have made their mind up, look at america and europe. china's laughing their asses off. norway hasnt yet taken part of the economic breakdown of europe, but you know what?we're headed there! IN A HURRY! people are even eagerly proposing privatizing all the oil, and those guys will of course - in turn - refuse to pay taxes :Doh i cant wait. why shouldnt we privatize oil? what business does the government have in oil? where are you from zegh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marharth Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 I don't even know why this got bumped p.p Anyways I won't be replying to this topic anymore. I am sure other people can say everything I want to say on it anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zegh8578 Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) why shouldnt we privatize oil? what business does the government have in oil? where are you from zegh? i am from a country that _entirely_ depends on the oil. without the oil, i could just as well tell you that i am from angola, botswana or sierra leone. but for now, i am not. this is what business the government has in oil:infrastructure building, roads etc. hospitals, keeping them public. schools, keeping them public. police and fire department, keeping them public. basically, anything a government needs for spending, thats what they need the oil for. let us reverse it:explain to me how a government would exist without a single penny? Edited February 13, 2012 by zegh8578 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyYou Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 why shouldnt we privatize oil? what business does the government have in oil? where are you from zegh? i am from a country that _entirely_ depends on the oil. without the oil, i could just as well tell you that i am from angola, botswana or sierra leone. but for now, i am not. this is what business the government has in oil:infrastructure building, roads etc. hospitals, keeping them public. schools, keeping them public. police and fire department, keeping them public. basically, anything a government needs for spending, thats what they need the oil for. let us reverse it:explain to me how a government would exist without a single penny? Actually, it makes good sense. The government wants to make some money on it, but, the profit motive isn't the be-all, end-all motivation like it is for the private sector. You don't have them blowing millions on salaries and bonuses for the bigwigs either, more money goes where it is needed most. To the people. The US government could learn some lessons here... but, public oil companies would never fly here, the private companies would piss and moan about unfair competition cutting into their profits. Cutting all welfare/social programs would be a recipe for disaster. It would make the great depression look like a day at the park. Crimerates would skyrocket. No one would be safe. Security companies would make killings. (literally, and figuratively) Wall Street would be overrun, and anarchy would be the end result. That is not something you can just decree, and have it happen overnight. It has taken us decades to get to where we are now, it will take decades more to address the issues that have been created. Trouble is, no one wants to address the real issues. They want to poke and prod at the symptoms, so it LOOKS like they are doing something, when in reality, all they are doing is perpetuating the problem, and passing it on to the next generation. The current government here in the US seems to enjoy cutting taxes, as that gets them re-elected. However, they seem to be allergic to cutting spending, or ending wars. Sure, Obama 'ended' the Iraq involvement, but, he got is into Libya, and Yemen. One step forward, two steps back. Iran looks like the next candidate for "small country the US wants to invade, and then rebuild." Our government seems to fail to recognize that we flat out SUCK at nation building. Yet they keep wanting to do it some more. Trillions of dollars, a goodly percentage of which is borrowed from China, down the tubes, to no good purpose. Watch those nations go right back to exactly the way there were, or worse, before we came in to 'save the day'..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zegh8578 Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 ^well put :] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imperistan Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 So you think 'weeding out' people that are not compatible with your moral outlook is acceptable? So you don't think that selfishness is a terrible thing and shouldn't be weeded out of human behavior? Okay. :rolleyes: Plus it doesn't work like that anyway. The society would be started by people who already abandoned selfishness on their own. Weeding out those who refuse to help out is a way of maintaining that society. You wouldn't expect a communist (real communist mind you) to last if it was overrun by capitalists would you? No. In the same way, you can't expect a society that works around selflessness to last if the selfish are allowed to have the same benefits as the selfless without giving anything back. Dunno what you mean when the greedy, vast wealth gathering, hoarding dynasties and institutions will only live so long and their descendants will only maintain the resource control, that is all they intend to do. collect the resources and control them. Hard to control when the surrounding land comes to refuse to support you because of your selfishness. And if it gets to the point where that selfish person/family doesn't need to rely on the surrounding society to suppor them, then there's the bigger problem of there being an essential invasion. Selfishness can be tolerated to a point, but not to the point where it becomes detrimental to society to keep those selfish people/families in their midst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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