On console mods, theft and Bethesda.net

[MysticalFlare]

In response to post #39493020. #39493465, #39494175, #39494320, #39494820, #39495215, #39495510, #39495875, #39496060, #39496080, #39496750, #39496960, #39497070, #39497535, #39497750, #39498490, #39498745, #39498845, #39501930, #39503535 are all replies on the same post.

arkancelo wrote: I stopped reading after some time.

This elementary prose is full of s#*!.

Dramaqueens (modders who cry when other people are able to enjoy their mods) need to grow up.

My God, what's this ego?

"I created you, you shall know my name, follow my cult and worship me!" - Abrahamic God/Average Modder

Seriously, just be happy that people can actually enjoy the content you made. Douchbags.

LightningYu wrote: So you say, its deserved that some poeple can simple steal things from other people, and you don't care because you can play the Mod on your Console. And you critize the modders for their ego. You are much more egoistic than any of these modders, which make the Content you can Enjoy in their free-time, where most people like Mod-User or the one who steals the mods are in 100years to lazy do their own work. How about you make an great mod, and than look how your own thing will be taken away, but why should you care, everyon cans play it. The way you act, shows now respect towards the modders,...

We will see, if modders keep modding when people still keep thefting or if modders find a way so their Mods works only on PC. Than we will see if console-players will still be happy, however (and no i'm not against Console-Gaming, because i myself also own an X1, PS4 and WiiU and half of my childhood i grew up with console) if you ask me, with that attitude by console-players you guys not even deserved mod-support.

Red890 wrote: While I also stopped reading after a while (It really was very long and repetitious),

I don't understand how you not only missed the point entirely, but have such a backwards and stupid view on how modding works. Modders don't like their work being stolen. I don't like my work being stolen (although I use Steam Workshop mostly). We spend dozens of hours or more (depending on mod size) working on projects we think are cool and are interesting for the community without pay.

The LEAST we deserve is credit for the work we've done and where the content WE produce can be distributed. Having some brainless shitlord include my map or skin in some stupid, bloated "l337 pack" doesn't make me happy. It makes me outright furious if they attempt to claim it as their own.

Now, I don't know if you're simply stupid, or if you are simply a petulant child that doesn't know much effort goes into making a good mod (maybe you're both), but saying "just be happy people can enjoy the content your made, even if they deliberately stole it and didn't credit you" has GOT to be the most retarded thing written this year.

By that insipid logic, movie credits shouldn't be a thing. Authors, musicians, and game developers should all remove their names from their work. After all, it doesn't matter who steals or copies it since those original creators should be HAPPY that people can enjoy their content, regardless of if they're credited or not.

I for one would be overjoyed to spend 100 hours working on a CSGO level for the explicit purpose of letting some 12 year old steal it, and claim original ownership. In fact, I should probably thank them, right?

daedriccat wrote: You can't just come in and demand what you want. It's that simple.

RaffTheSweetling wrote: Isn't it always the way. The people who've never endorsed a thing here, never added a mod of their own, or even a picture for others to enjoy, want to share their "valuable insights" on how authors should really feel when their work is stolen. It's incredible.

arn13 wrote: If you can't be bothered to read the entire thing, then at least copy and ctrl+F search for this section: "Why should mod authors care about others taking their work? Surely they release mods so that as many people as possible can enjoy them?"

It's not a question about someone having too much "ego." It's about having respect for other people's effort to actually create content for everyone to enjoy.

Shosholada wrote: + the point:

"9. Mod authors make mods for themselves first, and you second. If the second part, you, becomes too much of a problem for them, they’ll simply not want to share them with you at all."

End of story.

I wish to have option to block some users from my mods ;)

jim_uk wrote: Files=0 Images=0 Videos=0 Friends=0 Endorsements Given=0 Files Tagged=0

Three years you've been here and you've contributed nothing at all.

Gilles19870 wrote: Ehhh no.. They made it for themselves first.. community second.. and if you just download the PC version, then alter it through the Creation Kit for console use.. then you're an thief. The original owner owns the rights to the mod.

The least you can do, if you reverse enigneer the mod, is credit the original maker.

If paid modding is to start on Bethesda's own site.. you have thiefs making a profit on somebody else's hard work.. that could open a whole sh*tload of complaints, and legal issues.

I understand Bethesda wanting their "own" mod site. Gives them great insight what the community wants in a new game.. but make sure the maker of the mod is the original maker. And not somebody that reversed engineered the mod from a pc version.

UlanX wrote: I don't think it's a god complex. I think it's more of a case of people are tired of the blatant sense of entitlement among some members of the gaming "community" (as reflected by your attitude). It's the same attitude you see on various forums where people are demanding, not asking, devs for this, that and the next thing. Claiming they know better than anyone else and basically being a selfish keyboard warrior. People who spend hours making content for others to enjoy at least deserve to be acknowledged and decide where, when and how their content is used.

Otherwise what I can see happening is people breaking off into smaller, closed modding guilds/groups and just producing content for a close knit community they know they can trust. I guess it's a case of "don't bite the hand that feeds you".

jagdhundnull wrote: @arkancelo

In all honesty, I think it's really difficult for you to make that argument when you seemingly haven't contributed anything to the community in 3 years.

And before you write me off as just another egotistical mod author, I'm not -- I too have no mods uploaded like yourself, and in 7 years at that. But I do enjoy and support the efforts of the mod authors, especially given the fact some of them have to deal with seeming toddlers clamoring for updates/fixes/new features as if the mod author doesn't have their own life to attend to. And don't get me started on the people who actively subscribe to the Fallout 4 betas and then complain to mod authors when the voluntary and ever-changing beta patches break the mod...

All that said, yeah, there are douchey mod authors here and there. Happens everywhere. But, while not having published any mods myself, I have made several personal ones, and can attest to the days, sometimes even weeks that can be spent on testing what you're trying to do to get it right. And that's just some simple stuff. Some of these mod authors have been working on their mods here and there since last November.

In the end, remember one thing about all this: the modding community is just that -- a community. It's voluntary. People donate time from their lives to provide this for the enjoyment of others. For them it's an achievement and also a bit fun. But if they become burnt out on the community, if it's no longer fun nor a positive thing for them, why should they even bother sharing mods?

When all the great mod authors on this website decide to pack up and move on with their lives, can we depend on you to give us the game-changing masterpieces?

Th3 Duk3 wrote: Now there's an idea: I'm not aloud to get mad for people stealing food out of my home, cause "other people should also be able to enjoy my food"

*facepalm*

khalkists wrote: Cool. So that means I should be able to come and take your computer right? Its yours, but, well... I should be able to enjoy it, irregardless of if you want to give it to me.

jguerr73 wrote: just wow

Red Titus wrote: If I may. I know how much work is involved in making mod. It's not just sketch things up and upload them. The programs that are involved, the effort in LEARNING how to use these tools. Nifscope, photoshop and others that even the author gives credit .It all takes time...I'll be honest with ya. I've tried to use some of these programs, and just could not get it. Yeah, you have some modders with ego trips. But you know what? It's deserved. Time, effort and a lot of patience. I've been a gamer since the Atari era. Blocks for graphics and paddles the size of tennis rackets. Well maybe a little exaggerated . I too owned many consoles and enjoyed them very much. And still own a ps4, and maybe the ps4.5 in the future. When I heard that they where going to suped up the ps4 or even Xbox1, first thing that came to my mind ,they're going to be able to run the more powerful mods. If feel even though mods are free, I still should contribute something. If not financially, how about endorsements. I'am baffled by how many downloads and so little endorsements. And the sad thing is many of the authors only as for endorsements. Hence "please endorse". One thing both the pc and console people have in common, we enjoy playing video games. WE'RE GAMERS. But when I download a mod, I don't take it for granted. And am very thankful to the modding community for the work they've done, free of charge. Even this site is free. Thank you modders for your free stuff. And I will continue to at the very least endorse your stuff. Again, thank you...

cridus wrote: @arkancelo

lol you REALLY should have kept reading, because this argument you raised is covered near the end. search this in the page: "Why should mod authors care about others taking their work? Surely they release mods so that as many people as possible can enjoy them?"

and feel stupid.


edit: wow I had this page open for a while. I've probably been ninja'd several times, lol

Tinypigs wrote: So, you're evaluating a text that you yourself specifically claimed to not have read. And you expect your opinion to be considered valid? No. It's not. Read the text, where he talks about exactly the type of thing you are raging at, and THEN comment on it.

And in regards to your depressingly over-cynical image of all mod authors, do you not see how insanely unreasonable it is for you to have reached this level of entitlement over something other people have put THEIR OWN TIME into and you get to enjoy FOR FREE?! Come on. Even if a mod author is a total shitface, you have absolutely no right to demand anything.

Your role is simple. In this particular case you are only a consumer. Your only power lies in either using a mod, or not using it. Yet you for some reason seem to think that you enjoying someones content gives you a say in what they should or shouldn't do with it. Almost like the author should be thanking you for your "gracious consumption".

NO! THATS NOT HOW AUTHORSHIP WORKS!

Tinypigs wrote: Yeah this OP managed most idiotic comment i've seen in this entire discussion.

lsinsocal wrote: YOU are why we can't have nice things.

treasurev wrote: Okay, so your line of thinking is simply "If people can enjoy it, that's all there is to it"?

It shouldn't matter if someone owns it and therefore has rights to choose what is done with it?

Okay, feel free to give me your address so I can come and steal your car that you've spent years putting together piece by piece. Hey, I can enjoy it so it doesn't matter if you own it or not right? Your attitude is precisely what is inciting this entire issue arkancelo..it reeks of pure entitlement.

Congrats on doing the complete opposite of what this article is trying to achieve. Edited June 18, 2016 by MysticalFlare

[JimboUK]

In response to post #39493020. #39493465, #39494175, #39494320, #39494820, #39495215, #39495510, #39495745 are all replies on the same post.

arkancelo wrote: I stopped reading after some time.

This elementary prose is full of s#*!.

Dramaqueens (modders who cry when other people are able to enjoy their mods) need to grow up.

My God, what's this ego?

"I created you, you shall know my name, follow my cult and worship me!" - Abrahamic God/Average Modder

Seriously, just be happy that people can actually enjoy the content you made. Douchbags.

LightningYu wrote: So you say, its deserved that some poeple can simple steal things from other people, and you don't care because you can play the Mod on your Console. And you critize the modders for their ego. You are much more egoistic than any of these modders, which make the Content you can Enjoy in their free-time, where most people like Mod-User or the one who steals the mods are in 100years to lazy do their own work. How about you make an great mod, and than look how your own thing will be taken away, but why should you care, everyon cans play it. The way you act, shows now respect towards the modders,...

We will see, if modders keep modding when people still keep thefting or if modders find a way so their Mods works only on PC. Than we will see if console-players will still be happy, however (and no i'm not against Console-Gaming, because i myself also own an X1, PS4 and WiiU and half of my childhood i grew up with console) if you ask me, with that attitude by console-players you guys not even deserved mod-support.

Red890 wrote: While I also stopped reading after a while (It really was very long and repetitious),

I don't understand how you not only missed the point entirely, but have such a backwards and stupid view on how modding works. Modders don't like their work being stolen. I don't like my work being stolen (although I use Steam Workshop mostly). We spend dozens of hours or more (depending on mod size) working on projects we think are cool and are interesting for the community without pay.

The LEAST we deserve is credit for the work we've done and where the content WE produce can be distributed. Having some brainless shitlord include my map or skin in some stupid, bloated "l337 pack" doesn't make me happy. It makes me outright furious if they attempt to claim it as their own.

Now, I don't know if you're simply stupid, or if you are simply a petulant child that doesn't know much effort goes into making a good mod (maybe you're both), but saying "just be happy people can enjoy the content your made, even if they deliberately stole it and didn't credit you" has GOT to be the most retarded thing written this year.

By that insipid logic, movie credits shouldn't be a thing. Authors, musicians, and game developers should all remove their names from their work. After all, it doesn't matter who steals or copies it since those original creators should be HAPPY that people can enjoy their content, regardless of if they're credited or not.

I for one would be overjoyed to spend 100 hours working on a CSGO level for the explicit purpose of letting some 12 year old steal it, and claim original ownership. In fact, I should probably thank them, right?

daedriccat wrote: You can't just come in and demand what you want. It's that simple.

RaffTheSweetling wrote: Isn't it always the way. The people who've never endorsed a thing here, never added a mod of their own, or even a picture for others to enjoy, want to share their "valuable insights" on how authors should really feel when their work is stolen. It's incredible.

arn13 wrote: If you can't be bothered to read the entire thing, then at least copy and ctrl+F search for this section: "Why should mod authors care about others taking their work? Surely they release mods so that as many people as possible can enjoy them?"

It's not a question about someone having too much "ego." It's about having respect for other people's effort to actually create content for everyone to enjoy.

Shosholada wrote: + the point:

"9. Mod authors make mods for themselves first, and you second. If the second part, you, becomes too much of a problem for them, they’ll simply not want to share them with you at all."

End of story.

I wish to have option to block some users from my mods ;)

MysticalFlare wrote: @ark, congrats on doing the complete opposite of what this article is trying to achieve.

Files=0 Images=0 Videos=0 Friends=0 Endorsements Given=0 Files Tagged=0

Three years you've been here and you've contributed nothing at all. Edited June 18, 2016 by jim_uk

[qasm0ke]

In response to post #39491315.

tvs_frank wrote: I think the simplest solution to this would be to just make your mod rely the SKSE libraries, even something as basic as a texture replacer. There must be a way, right?

SKSE for Skyrim and F4SE for Fallout 4. This way the developer can focus & care about only for PC. That's the way I think.

I don't have any console so I couldn't test anyway. My Skyrim mods are all require SKSE, so if the so-called 'thief' stole my mod to Bethesda market, he can't play it on non-PC environment.

[Gilles19870]

In response to post #39493020. #39493465, #39494175, #39494320, #39494820, #39495215, #39495510, #39495745, #39495875 are all replies on the same post.

arkancelo wrote: I stopped reading after some time.

This elementary prose is full of s#*!.

Dramaqueens (modders who cry when other people are able to enjoy their mods) need to grow up.

My God, what's this ego?

"I created you, you shall know my name, follow my cult and worship me!" - Abrahamic God/Average Modder

Seriously, just be happy that people can actually enjoy the content you made. Douchbags.

LightningYu wrote: So you say, its deserved that some poeple can simple steal things from other people, and you don't care because you can play the Mod on your Console. And you critize the modders for their ego. You are much more egoistic than any of these modders, which make the Content you can Enjoy in their free-time, where most people like Mod-User or the one who steals the mods are in 100years to lazy do their own work. How about you make an great mod, and than look how your own thing will be taken away, but why should you care, everyon cans play it. The way you act, shows now respect towards the modders,...

We will see, if modders keep modding when people still keep thefting or if modders find a way so their Mods works only on PC. Than we will see if console-players will still be happy, however (and no i'm not against Console-Gaming, because i myself also own an X1, PS4 and WiiU and half of my childhood i grew up with console) if you ask me, with that attitude by console-players you guys not even deserved mod-support.

Red890 wrote: While I also stopped reading after a while (It really was very long and repetitious),

I don't understand how you not only missed the point entirely, but have such a backwards and stupid view on how modding works. Modders don't like their work being stolen. I don't like my work being stolen (although I use Steam Workshop mostly). We spend dozens of hours or more (depending on mod size) working on projects we think are cool and are interesting for the community without pay.

The LEAST we deserve is credit for the work we've done and where the content WE produce can be distributed. Having some brainless shitlord include my map or skin in some stupid, bloated "l337 pack" doesn't make me happy. It makes me outright furious if they attempt to claim it as their own.

Now, I don't know if you're simply stupid, or if you are simply a petulant child that doesn't know much effort goes into making a good mod (maybe you're both), but saying "just be happy people can enjoy the content your made, even if they deliberately stole it and didn't credit you" has GOT to be the most retarded thing written this year.

By that insipid logic, movie credits shouldn't be a thing. Authors, musicians, and game developers should all remove their names from their work. After all, it doesn't matter who steals or copies it since those original creators should be HAPPY that people can enjoy their content, regardless of if they're credited or not.

I for one would be overjoyed to spend 100 hours working on a CSGO level for the explicit purpose of letting some 12 year old steal it, and claim original ownership. In fact, I should probably thank them, right?

daedriccat wrote: You can't just come in and demand what you want. It's that simple.

RaffTheSweetling wrote: Isn't it always the way. The people who've never endorsed a thing here, never added a mod of their own, or even a picture for others to enjoy, want to share their "valuable insights" on how authors should really feel when their work is stolen. It's incredible.

arn13 wrote: If you can't be bothered to read the entire thing, then at least copy and ctrl+F search for this section: "Why should mod authors care about others taking their work? Surely they release mods so that as many people as possible can enjoy them?"

It's not a question about someone having too much "ego." It's about having respect for other people's effort to actually create content for everyone to enjoy.

Shosholada wrote: + the point:

"9. Mod authors make mods for themselves first, and you second. If the second part, you, becomes too much of a problem for them, they’ll simply not want to share them with you at all."

End of story.

I wish to have option to block some users from my mods ;)

MysticalFlare wrote: Congrats on doing the complete opposite of what this article is trying to achieve.

jim_uk wrote: Files=0 Images=0 Videos=0 Friends=0 Endorsements Given=0 Files Tagged=0

Three years you've been here and you've contributed nothing at all.

Ehhh no.. They made it for themselves first.. community second.. and if you just download the PC version, then alter it through the Creation Kit for console use.. then you're an thief. The original owner owns the rights to the mod.

The least you can do, if you reverse enigneer the mod, is credit the original maker.

If paid modding is to start on Bethesda's own site.. you have thiefs making a profit on somebody else's hard work.. that could open a whole sh*tload of complaints, and legal issues.

I understand Bethesda wanting their "own" mod site. Gives them great insight what the community wants in a new game.. but make sure the maker of the mod is the original maker. And not somebody that reversed engineered the mod from a pc version.

[AoEnwyr]

In response to post #39493020. #39493465, #39494175, #39494320, #39494820, #39495215, #39495510, #39495745, #39495875, #39496060 are all replies on the same post.

arkancelo wrote: I stopped reading after some time.

This elementary prose is full of s#*!.

Dramaqueens (modders who cry when other people are able to enjoy their mods) need to grow up.

My God, what's this ego?

"I created you, you shall know my name, follow my cult and worship me!" - Abrahamic God/Average Modder

Seriously, just be happy that people can actually enjoy the content you made. Douchbags.

LightningYu wrote: So you say, its deserved that some poeple can simple steal things from other people, and you don't care because you can play the Mod on your Console. And you critize the modders for their ego. You are much more egoistic than any of these modders, which make the Content you can Enjoy in their free-time, where most people like Mod-User or the one who steals the mods are in 100years to lazy do their own work. How about you make an great mod, and than look how your own thing will be taken away, but why should you care, everyon cans play it. The way you act, shows now respect towards the modders,...

We will see, if modders keep modding when people still keep thefting or if modders find a way so their Mods works only on PC. Than we will see if console-players will still be happy, however (and no i'm not against Console-Gaming, because i myself also own an X1, PS4 and WiiU and half of my childhood i grew up with console) if you ask me, with that attitude by console-players you guys not even deserved mod-support.

Red890 wrote: While I also stopped reading after a while (It really was very long and repetitious),

I don't understand how you not only missed the point entirely, but have such a backwards and stupid view on how modding works. Modders don't like their work being stolen. I don't like my work being stolen (although I use Steam Workshop mostly). We spend dozens of hours or more (depending on mod size) working on projects we think are cool and are interesting for the community without pay.

The LEAST we deserve is credit for the work we've done and where the content WE produce can be distributed. Having some brainless shitlord include my map or skin in some stupid, bloated "l337 pack" doesn't make me happy. It makes me outright furious if they attempt to claim it as their own.

Now, I don't know if you're simply stupid, or if you are simply a petulant child that doesn't know much effort goes into making a good mod (maybe you're both), but saying "just be happy people can enjoy the content your made, even if they deliberately stole it and didn't credit you" has GOT to be the most retarded thing written this year.

By that insipid logic, movie credits shouldn't be a thing. Authors, musicians, and game developers should all remove their names from their work. After all, it doesn't matter who steals or copies it since those original creators should be HAPPY that people can enjoy their content, regardless of if they're credited or not.

I for one would be overjoyed to spend 100 hours working on a CSGO level for the explicit purpose of letting some 12 year old steal it, and claim original ownership. In fact, I should probably thank them, right?

daedriccat wrote: You can't just come in and demand what you want. It's that simple.

RaffTheSweetling wrote: Isn't it always the way. The people who've never endorsed a thing here, never added a mod of their own, or even a picture for others to enjoy, want to share their "valuable insights" on how authors should really feel when their work is stolen. It's incredible.

arn13 wrote: If you can't be bothered to read the entire thing, then at least copy and ctrl+F search for this section: "Why should mod authors care about others taking their work? Surely they release mods so that as many people as possible can enjoy them?"

It's not a question about someone having too much "ego." It's about having respect for other people's effort to actually create content for everyone to enjoy.

Shosholada wrote: + the point:

"9. Mod authors make mods for themselves first, and you second. If the second part, you, becomes too much of a problem for them, they’ll simply not want to share them with you at all."

End of story.

I wish to have option to block some users from my mods ;)

MysticalFlare wrote: Congrats on doing the complete opposite of what this article is trying to achieve.

jim_uk wrote: Files=0 Images=0 Videos=0 Friends=0 Endorsements Given=0 Files Tagged=0

Three years you've been here and you've contributed nothing at all.

Gilles19870 wrote: Ehhh no.. They made it for themselves first.. community second.. and if you just download the PC version, then alter it through the Creation Kit for console use.. then you're an thief. The original owner owns the rights to the mod.

The least you can do, if you reverse enigneer the mod, is credit the original maker.

If paid modding is to start on Bethesda's own site.. you have thiefs making a profit on somebody else's hard work.. that could open a whole sh*tload of complaints, and legal issues.

I understand Bethesda wanting their "own" mod site. Gives them great insight what the community wants in a new game.. but make sure the maker of the mod is the original maker. And not somebody that reversed engineered the mod from a pc version.

I don't think it's a god complex. I think it's more of a case of people are tired of the blatant sense of entitlement among some members of the gaming "community" (as reflected by your attitude). It's the same attitude you see on various forums where people are demanding, not asking, devs for this, that and the next thing. Claiming they know better than anyone else and basically being a selfish keyboard warrior. People who spend hours making content for others to enjoy at least deserve to be acknowledged and decide where, when and how their content is used.

Otherwise what I can see happening is people breaking off into smaller, closed modding guilds/groups and just producing content for a close knit community they know they can trust. I guess it's a case of "don't bite the hand that feeds you".

[AoEnwyr]

In response to post #39485330. #39488480, #39488735, #39490310, #39491875, #39495320 are all replies on the same post.

MrJoseCuervo wrote: I urge modders to keep their console brothers in mind when they make mods. Make sure your mods are in good working order and safe for them to use. We don't want any consoles getting damaged due to poor modding.

alanlwilcox wrote: How can a PC modder EVER make a mod safe for console gaming? There are no tools for a console game as said in an earlier post. Consoles are a new world that only Bethesda may know enough about to mod for them. I would think that consoles would be at great risk and will blame these modders for problems caused by pirated mods.

A_name wrote: There are 0 tools for a modder to troubleshoot on a console. And frankly asking a modder to buy 2 consoles just to test his mods is ridiculous anyway.

Maybe we should encourage the thieves or pirates to do the testing?
I am pretty damn sure a handful of modders would be glad to outsource this to them.
If they ask first of course.

chinagreenelvis wrote: AFAIK there shouldn't be any difference. Console mod problems will come from the the same source as PC mod problems: load order. It's not like you can write a mod that will physically destroy a console.

CrazyIvan12 wrote: ...and the troll/asshole, emboldened by this statement, set out to create a mod designed to do just that.

But in all seriousness, the biggest problem would be troubleshooting. People (including me) don't use consoles ever, and as a result, they have no way to bug test. I personally think, if the modder is the "won't upload to bethsda.net" type, if they can work something out with a console user to troubleshoot the mod, that they should think about uploading to bethesda

arn13 wrote: It's already quite difficult enough making sure your mod even works on the PC. My "Populated Wasteland" mod worked perfectly fine for me, but a lot of users reported problems on their end and I simply had no idea what could be causing it. If I'm not experiencing the same problems, how else can I troubleshoot it?

Now imagine if I had to do that for consoles too. That's just too much of a headache to even bother with.

I play this on PC, my husband on PS4 so I personally don't have an issue with mods for consoles. I understand very well why some people prefer consoles and there are games I prefer to play (or can only play on console). I don't go in for the whole "PC Master Race" nonsense. If I want to play a Final Fantasy game on Playstation, I damn well will. I won't suddenly be overcome with shame because "oh my god, a console!". That said I love my PC to bits and play several single player and MMO's with it. These divisions are artificial and created out of a need to be part of an "in-group".

That said, I can see how modding for consoles may be a bit more time consuming, beyond the need as some have pointed out, to own both the console and a PC to create the mods. I can currently make a mod on PC and test it straight away without having to faff around transferring it to console, testing it, switching back to PC to troubleshoot etc Edited June 18, 2016 by UlanX

[qasm0ke]

Why Bethesda continue "Elder Scroll Online"? Because it generates money.

Why Beth and Valve tried to implement "paid mods"? It's about their 75:25 cut.

Why Bethesda "update" Skyrim now, just for some texture and "mods" menu?

 

It's all about money.

They realized "mods" can generate some easy money for them.

 

They give you the tool for free.

They give you the place to host your mods.

 

But everything has its price. Running a server cost bandwidth and power, in short, cost money.

 

I don't surprise if they update SkyrimRemastered and Fallout4 to "limit" how people use mods.

(e.g., Mods are only available from bethesda.net. Like Mozilla Firefox's Add-on sigining.)

 

Modder ==(FREE MOD)==> Bethesda.net <==(MONEY)==> Bethesda

 

Bethesda can:

1. Analyze your comment, download history to know what kind of things you like. Sell it to advertisement company along with your Steam ID and IP.

2. Analyze your computer(send your PC info) like Steam do, so they can know how you use their games.

[jagdhundnull]

In response to post #39493020. #39493465, #39494175, #39494320, #39494820, #39495215, #39495510, #39495745, #39495875, #39496060, #39496080 are all replies on the same post.

arkancelo wrote: I stopped reading after some time.

This elementary prose is full of s#*&#33;.

Dramaqueens (modders who cry when other people are able to enjoy their mods) need to grow up.

My God, what's this ego?

"I created you, you shall know my name, follow my cult and worship me!" - Abrahamic God/Average Modder

Seriously, just be happy that people can actually enjoy the content you made. Douchbags.

LightningYu wrote: So you say, its deserved that some poeple can simple steal things from other people, and you don't care because you can play the Mod on your Console. And you critize the modders for their ego. You are much more egoistic than any of these modders, which make the Content you can Enjoy in their free-time, where most people like Mod-User or the one who steals the mods are in 100years to lazy do their own work. How about you make an great mod, and than look how your own thing will be taken away, but why should you care, everyon cans play it. The way you act, shows now respect towards the modders,...

We will see, if modders keep modding when people still keep thefting or if modders find a way so their Mods works only on PC. Than we will see if console-players will still be happy, however (and no i'm not against Console-Gaming, because i myself also own an X1, PS4 and WiiU and half of my childhood i grew up with console) if you ask me, with that attitude by console-players you guys not even deserved mod-support.

Red890 wrote: While I also stopped reading after a while (It really was very long and repetitious),

I don't understand how you not only missed the point entirely, but have such a backwards and stupid view on how modding works. Modders don't like their work being stolen. I don't like my work being stolen (although I use Steam Workshop mostly). We spend dozens of hours or more (depending on mod size) working on projects we think are cool and are interesting for the community without pay.

The LEAST we deserve is credit for the work we've done and where the content WE produce can be distributed. Having some brainless shitlord include my map or skin in some stupid, bloated "l337 pack" doesn't make me happy. It makes me outright furious if they attempt to claim it as their own.

Now, I don't know if you're simply stupid, or if you are simply a petulant child that doesn't know much effort goes into making a good mod (maybe you're both), but saying "just be happy people can enjoy the content your made, even if they deliberately stole it and didn't credit you" has GOT to be the most retarded thing written this year.

By that insipid logic, movie credits shouldn't be a thing. Authors, musicians, and game developers should all remove their names from their work. After all, it doesn't matter who steals or copies it since those original creators should be HAPPY that people can enjoy their content, regardless of if they're credited or not.

I for one would be overjoyed to spend 100 hours working on a CSGO level for the explicit purpose of letting some 12 year old steal it, and claim original ownership. In fact, I should probably thank them, right?

daedriccat wrote: You can't just come in and demand what you want. It's that simple.

RaffTheSweetling wrote: Isn't it always the way. The people who've never endorsed a thing here, never added a mod of their own, or even a picture for others to enjoy, want to share their "valuable insights" on how authors should really feel when their work is stolen. It's incredible.

arn13 wrote: If you can't be bothered to read the entire thing, then at least copy and ctrl+F search for this section: "Why should mod authors care about others taking their work? Surely they release mods so that as many people as possible can enjoy them?"

It's not a question about someone having too much "ego." It's about having respect for other people's effort to actually create content for everyone to enjoy.

Shosholada wrote: + the point:

"9. Mod authors make mods for themselves first, and you second. If the second part, you, becomes too much of a problem for them, they’ll simply not want to share them with you at all."

End of story.

I wish to have option to block some users from my mods ;)

MysticalFlare wrote: Congrats on doing the complete opposite of what this article is trying to achieve.

jim_uk wrote: Files=0 Images=0 Videos=0 Friends=0 Endorsements Given=0 Files Tagged=0

Three years you've been here and you've contributed nothing at all.

Gilles19870 wrote: Ehhh no.. They made it for themselves first.. community second.. and if you just download the PC version, then alter it through the Creation Kit for console use.. then you're an thief. The original owner owns the rights to the mod.

The least you can do, if you reverse enigneer the mod, is credit the original maker.

If paid modding is to start on Bethesda's own site.. you have thiefs making a profit on somebody else's hard work.. that could open a whole sh*tload of complaints, and legal issues.

I understand Bethesda wanting their "own" mod site. Gives them great insight what the community wants in a new game.. but make sure the maker of the mod is the original maker. And not somebody that reversed engineered the mod from a pc version.

UlanX wrote: I don't think it's a god complex. I think it's more of a case of people are tired of the blatant sense of entitlement among some members of the gaming "community" (as reflected by your attitude). It's the same attitude you see on various forums where people are demanding, not asking, devs for this, that and the next thing. Claiming they know better than anyone else and basically being a selfish keyboard warrior. People who spend hours making content for others to enjoy at least deserve to be acknowledged and decide where, when and how their content is used.

Otherwise what I can see happening is people breaking off into smaller, closed modding guilds/groups and just producing content for a close knit community they know they can trust. I guess it's a case of "don't bite the hand that feeds you".

@arkancelo

In all honesty, I think it's really difficult for you to make that argument when you seemingly haven't contributed anything to the community in 3 years.

And before you write me off as just another egotistical mod author, I'm not -- I too have no mods uploaded like yourself, and in 7 years at that. But I do enjoy and support the efforts of the mod authors, especially given the fact some of them have to deal with seeming toddlers clamoring for updates/fixes/new features as if the mod author doesn't have their own life to attend to. And don't get me started on the people who actively subscribe to the Fallout 4 betas and then complain to mod authors when the voluntary and ever-changing beta patches break the mod...

All that said, yeah, there are douchey mod authors here and there. Happens everywhere. But, while not having published any mods myself, I have made several personal ones, and can attest to the days, sometimes even weeks that can be spent on testing what you're trying to do to get it right. And that's just some simple stuff. Some of these mod authors have been working on their mods here and there since last November.

In the end, remember one thing about all this: the modding community is just that -- a community. It's voluntary. People donate time from their lives to provide this for the enjoyment of others. For them it's an achievement and also a bit fun. But if they become burnt out on the community, if it's no longer fun nor a positive thing for them, why should they even bother sharing mods?

When all the great mod authors on this website decide to pack up and move on with their lives, can we depend on you to give us the game-changing masterpieces?

[Draggannax]

In response to post #39463390. #39465235, #39465260 are all replies on the same post.

Dark0ne wrote: Today’s essay is on a subject I really don’t want to cover. I don’t know if it’s a lethargy that’s come from a changing of the seasons, or more likely, whether I feel utterly drained from the past few weeks of downright stupidity surrounding the community from all sides that makes me resent having to address the situation. However, we’ve released a small update to the mod author permissions section to address some of the issues that have arisen lately (details towards the bottom of this article), so I guess addressing the elephant in the room would now make sense.

I've posted this article on both our Fallout 4 section and our Skyrim section, as this information is also relevant to the Skyrim community now that Bethesda have openly announced their work on the Skyrim Remaster, which will include a new Creation Kit and mods on Bethesda.net for Skyrim.

So, what’s going on?

Back towards the end of April Bethesda released the Creation Kit for PC players. This is basically the tool that modders use to create the more advanced mods that originally weren’t possible (or were considerably harder to do) before the Creation Kit’s release. However, coupled with the Creation Kit came Bethesda.net, Bethesda’s official mod hosting platform. Let's not beat around the bush on this one, it’s pretty awful. So much so, and my own hubris notwithstanding, I’d say that if this wasn’t the official mod resource from Bethesda themselves and tied directly into the Creation Kit for easy publishing then practically nobody would be using it. You know the situation is bad when the usual Bethesda sycophants within the community are even admitting it’s pretty damn bad.

There’s obvious noticeable reasons why it’s really not good, and a lot of this stems from Bethesda’s focus on the console modding side of things. While Bethesda.net has a PC mods section, it’s not as popular as their XBox One mod section. Indeed, it’s certainly designed around their built-in (yet still quite awful) mod browsing system from within Fallout 4 itself. Something PC players are less likely to want to use because it’s far less powerful or usable than an actual website.

This isn’t a major issue, however. If Bethesda’s offering is pants and PC players don’t want or need to use it, then it’s no harm no foul and we can all continue on without any serious concern because, at the end of the day, it wasn’t made for us in mind anyway. However, the real issues stem from Bethesda’s flagrant disregard for the existing community and their naivety, arrogance and/or ignorance of how the community has worked these past 14 years (since Morrowind). Which brings us to the main point of this article; the effect of console mods and Bethesda’s ignorance towards its existing modding community.

When the Creation Kit was first released at the end of April, it was simply used to create mods for PC that could be uploaded to Bethesda.net (or the Nexus) for PC players. Not a major cultural shift for the community as we’d grown accustomed to it after Bethesda officially endorsed the Skyrim Workshop on Steam. At the end of May, that changed, as the Creation Kit could now be used to upload mods for XBox One players who could download mods from Bethesda’s built-in Fallout 4 mod browser system...thing.

Stop. Time-out, Zack Morris style. I need to address this issue. If that upset you. If the very thought of mods on consoles upsets you. Stop reading. Infact, just leave the site. You’re very likely to be a douche and an endemic problem within the PC gaming community. There is nothing wrong with the concept of mods being available on consoles.

However…

There is a major problem if mods on consoles seriously affects the PC modding side of things, or is detrimental in any way to PC mods or indeed how PC modding has worked within the community these past 14 years.

You need to separate your thinking between “mods on consoles are bad for whatever reason”, which is stupid, and “mods on console are bad due to how it’s affecting the PC modding community”, which can be justified. If you argue the former, then you, sir, are a douche. If you argue the latter, cohesively and without any reference to PC superiority, you’re doing it right.

If your issue is with mods being on consoles at all out of some bigoted view of PCs being better than consoles, then piss off. Seriously, just go. There’s no place for you in this community. We all know that PCs are more powerful and more customisable than their console equivalents. However, there is no reason consoles should not be allowed to have mods, provided the PC modding community is appropriately protected and not dumbed down or negatively affected in any way. If you disagree then you’re a part of some daft quasi-militant side of the “PC Master Race” (see: teenie bopper) shite and need to grow the hell up.

A lot of the chatter amongst the community these past few weeks has been about this concept. That consoles shouldn’t be allowed to have mods. It’s utterly stupid, and it’s seriously sidetracked the actual major issues and problems that have occurred. It’s frustrating to see people trying to argue the actual main points getting sidetracked by idiots who want to argue about their PC Master Race superiority. If you’re the aforementioned douche, then you’re wrong, and you should leave.

End time-out, resume play.

Naturally, console players on the XBox One were chomping at the bit to try out mods for their game. For years they’ve been reading about all the amazing mods available for games like Skyrim and Fallout 3 but have been unable to use mods themselves. Finally, they’d be able to get their hands on mods too.

However, in order for the mods to be available on consoles, PC mod authors would need to upload their mods, as a separate entry, to Bethesda.net’s system. While mods are available on consoles, they can’t actually be made by console users on their consoles after all.

As the flood-gates opened, it became increasingly obvious that users could just come to the Nexus or indeed the PC section of Bethesda.net, download another author’s mod, open up the Creation Kit and upload the file to the XBox One section, with or without that author’s permission.

Now mod theft is nothing new. We’ve been dealing with mod theft within the PC modding community for years now. It’s widespread and well documented. We’ve banned hundreds (it could even be thousands) of accounts here for doing it and Bethesda obviously know about it too, as they’ve had to deal with similar issues on their own forums and with the Skyrim Workshop on Steam.

Here’s where things get pants on head stupid. It became clear, early on, that Bethesda had not planned for the eventuality of mods being stolen. They had no clear moderation system in place. No way of quickly dealing with the issue or indeed any sort of decent reporting system so that users could report stolen mods in detail to the (seemingly non-existent) moderation team.
Rumours spread that the only person who could action stolen content reports was Matt Grandstaff, the Bethesda Community Manager. With E3 on the horizon, it seemed like no one at Bethesda was manning the moderation system at all. As a result, mods that had been stolen and reported many, many times were not being actioned and were being left up for many days at a time.

This is soul crushing for mod authors. To see their hard work being taken, without their permission, often times by people actually openly goading, trolling and mocking the mod authors about the theft and that nothing was being done about it. Despite this activity only being done by a small handful of people (who are seemingly just children), it has created some deep rooted resentment towards the console modding community and Bethesda themselves.

Let's address the fact this is supposed to be the official mod hosting platform for Bethesda games. THE place where Bethesda want all mods to be hosted (within their rules). I...wh...my mind simply boggles at how you think it’s OK to release a modding platform without even a second thought as to how you’re going to actually moderate it. It’s f*#@ing insulting to the community.

Back when the Skyrim Workshop was released, and later with the paid modding fiasco, I briefly brought this concept up with Matt Grandstaff and the Valve team. I told them that coding a website is easy. Anyone can do it. Just grab a book about HTML, PHP or Ruby and MySQL, learn how to code and you can do it. You’d be able to go from not knowing any programming languages to being able to make a site like the Nexus in about 6 months. Easily. Indeed, when TESSource went down back in 2007, I recoded the website from the ground up into TESNexus in 2 weeks, working from 9am to 12pm every night. It wasn’t hard. It was monotonous, sure, but it wasn’t hard.

What’s hard is spending the time to form an actual thriving community and trying to do right by that community so that they trust you enough to actually use your site. Doing right by that community requires countless hours responding to emails and messages, support tickets, moderation requests, generally conversing and actively engaging with your community and getting a feel for what the wants and needs of the community are and ultimately legislating if necessary so the community understands where you stand and what you expect of them. There’s seemingly none of that with Bethesda.net.

Naturally those words fell on deaf ears.

It’s not like Bethesda don’t have a precedent in regards to file moderation within their community. Ignoring the fact they were in charge of the Skyrim Workshop, where all these issues cropped up, there’s also this site called Nexus Mods. Lets face it, it’s pretty damn big, it’s gone through these issues a myriad of times already, right? Even if, for some reason, you want to ignore the staff who run and work on the site (news posts like this probably don’t help, let's face it!), there’s lots of users on the Nexus who are also Bethesda community regulars that could have been called upon for advice.

A simple quick email to me asking how bad moderation is for the community and what it takes, or indeed, a quick look at our warning and ban forum where we specifically document what people are warned and banned for every day would have revealed the extent to which moderation occurs and is necessary to keep a (relatively) happy and functioning community of this size going. And that’s just the surface stuff, and doesn’t include all the behind the scenes peacekeeping work we have to do between users. It’s not easy. It’s not quick. You can’t do it with one person (who I assume works extremely hard doing other things within Bethesda already). You can’t even do it with four people. You can’t do it as a 9-5, Monday-Friday job. It has to be as close to a 24/7/365 system as possible because trolls know no borders, and trolls know no time zone. If you run a global site with a global audience for your customers all over the globe, then your site should similarly be moderated across time zones and work hours to reflect your global reach.

Now look, I’m not saying that Bethesda need to moderate like us. They don’t need the same strict warning and ban system and they don’t need to widely document it like we do. However, there are some core tenets of this community, tenets that have been established for well over a decade, that were being flagrantly ignored by users on Bethesda.net and ultimately going completely unpunished for far too long by Bethesda. Tenets like “don’t steal mods”. It seems obvious really, but for some reason Bethesda made no plans to deal with such an obvious problem, neither in the way they created their site without a good reporting system or in the way they seemingly didn’t set up a stable and working moderation team and system before launching the site.

How long is too long for a stolen mod to be actioned? That does depend on how obvious the theft is. If the user who has stolen the mod has obviously stolen the mod (usually made obvious by the fact they f*#@ing admit to stealing the mod and not giving a damn in the file description or comments...yes, that’s been happening a lot…) then it should take less than a day. In cases where theft isn’t immediately obvious, where two authors provide different stories about the permissions around assets used within a mod it can certainly take a lot longer. But that’s not what’s been happening with console mods. Most of the theft has been downright obvious and for reports to take 4-9 days to action is bad. Really really bad.

During this time, the mod thieves were getting emboldened by Bethesda’s lack of action and continued to upload more stolen mods to the Bethesda.net file database. To add insult to injury, at a time when mod authors were getting understandably upset and irate with how they were being treated, GStaff released an official announcement, which largely read like a lawyer had written it, telling people to file DMCA takedown requests if they want their stolen work removed. This enraged some mod authors further. At a time when mod authors were looking for Bethesda to do right by them and detail exactly what Bethesda planned to do to combat the problem, all Bethesda could come up with was a convoluted, user-unfriendly process for having their files removed. I stepped in to try and get some clarification from Bethesda, because up until now the message was kind of being lost amongst the swirling rage being thrown at Bethesda at the time.

Now, the DMCA system in general on the internet does work, and it’s a legal system in the USA at that. However, the hope is that when you’re running the official mod hosting platform for a series of games, that your moderation system is more advanced than “send an email to this address”. Heck, even a template/form system built in to the Bethesda.net site for the DMCA process would have been helpful.

I chuckle slightly while writing this, but there was a brilliant example of this entire spectacle that highlights the difference between the Nexus moderation and Bethesda’s moderation on this issue.

Before the Fallout 4 Far Harbor DLC was released, it was leaked via a closed beta tester to torrent sites a full week before the official launch. A user on the Nexus uploaded it to Nexus Mods a few days later. The Nexus moderation team removed the stolen file within 2 hours and 20 minutes, despite it being uploaded on a Sunday morning at 3.16AM GMT (or 10.16PM EST on Saturday night). At 1.56PM on Sunday afternoon, I received a rare email from Matt Grandstaff asking me to remove the file if I hadn’t already. The file had already been removed and the user who uploaded it banned a good 8 hours before hand. We didn't wait for a DMCA to remove it. We removed it because hundreds of our users had reported it via our easy to use yet powerful reporting system, because we have a moderation team that's awake and doing good work at 3AM in the morning in the Nexus's local timezone, and because, obviously, it was the right thing to do.

And therein lies the issue. Bethesda notice their own content being stolen almost instantly (even at weekends) and will go to great steps to protect their work, but when it comes to creating a proper system to protect their own user’s interests, or indeed on actioning stolen content reports, they go missing for days or even weeks at a time. Seems a little...wrong, right?

I expect Matt emailed me out of courtesy, rather than letting Zenimax/Bethesda go straight for the DMCA route which is largely harsh and full of alienating legalese, but the point remains. Mod authors shouldn’t need to use a legal system to have their work removed, there should be a built in moderation system to handle all this stuff in-house. And it should have been created before they released Bethesda.net to the public.

And I think that’s quite telling. Nexus Mods is a site that grew from within the Bethesda community. It’s run on a shoestring budget by someone (ahem, me) running several different businesses and projects and largely moderated by volunteers who aren’t paid a dime (our community manager, SirSalami, is paid however, as it’s a full-time job). At the moment we have 9 active moderators plus SirSalami, making 10. If we can do it, Bethesda sure as hell can.

I expect the inherent problem was that the release of the Creation Kit was delayed specifically so they could finish their work on Bethesda.net. From the looks of the site and how barebones it is, I expect that the site wasn’t the cause of the delay, but rather, the integration of the mod browser into the game itself coupled with the integration with the XBox and Playstation platforms is what caused the delay to the CK. Since the game came out in November and player numbers were beginning to fall off, I assume they realised that they couldn’t wait any longer to release the CK and get their modding platform out with E3 around the corner.

Indeed, everything about the Bethesda.net launch has stunk of “release now, fix later”.

Now, my tone and the way I talk of them might suggest to you that I dislike Bethesda. I wouldn’t say I dislike Bethesda. I think they make great games and we obviously wouldn’t all be here if it wasn’t for the fact they made them with modding in mind. And we shouldn’t lose sight of that fact. But unfortunately, because Bethesda have not been particularly active within their modding community these past 14 years, in fact, they’ve been very hands off, this is all very...odd.

Bethesda are like a father who left you at birth with all the tools you need to survive. They weren’t there for you, they haven’t looked after you or protected you when you needed it, but they did leave you to fend for yourself with some pretty good tools. Sure, without them you wouldn’t have ever existed and the tools they provided were invaluable in staying alive, but ultimately it was you, the person with the tools that made you the person you are today.

And now, after 14 years of looking after yourself, and doing extremely well, your father has suddenly come back. You’re left with a lot of questions; why did they leave in the first place? Why are they back now? What are their motives? Are they only here because I’ve become popular and successful? Do they actually care about me or do they only care about their own interests?

And, ultimately, this is the real crux of the issue. The father figure is back after 14 years of absence and people are naturally skeptical about whether Bethesda have their best intentions at heart, or just their own. Yes, Bethesda have done really well to release their games with good modding tools. No, they haven’t been involved in the community or really looked after it at all.

Because this issue has been going on for a few weeks now it’s been debated to death both within the Nexus community and on the Bethesda forums (as well as being covered in the press extensively). From this debate there have been a lot of recurring questions and statements that I feel need to be cleared up or argued against. So I’m going to do a little Q&A style thing now where I list the commonly said things and my responses to them.

“Hey, it’s early days and this is their first site, go easy on them”

This would make sense if Bethesda were creating a community site for their first majorly modded game, Morrowind, 14 years ago. Back then, the modding community was an unknown and they’d have been justified in making glaring mistakes and then learning from them, like most sites did at the time. However, it’s not a site for Morrowind 14 years ago, it’s a site for Fallout 4, now. There’s already 14 years of precedents set within their very own community from which they themselves could have learnt from but have seemingly chosen not to. There’s no excuse for it.


“Bethesda are a big company, you need to give them time to respond to these issues”

If the inner workings of your company are so horrifically bureaucratic that you can’t respond to legitimate, major complaints in your very own community (for which you have a dedicated Community Manager) within two weeks then something is seriously wrong. Irrespective, the bureaucracy that makes them slow is not our fault. That is their fault. My idea of “giving people enough time” on something as serious as mod theft is a few days, not 2 weeks.


Anyone can steal a mod and upload it to a torrent site or a Russian site and it’ll never be taken down. What’s the big deal?

The “big deal” is that Bethesda is being touted as the official mod hosting platform for Bethesda’s games. It’s going to be a highly trafficked site, unlike a torrent site or a Russian modding site rife with stolen content, which is not going to be particularly active for modding. Do you really want to hold Bethesda to the same standards as The Pirate Bay or a Russian site rife with piracy, or do you expect more from the people you pay your money towards?


Bethesda own the rights to mods so it’s not actually stealing if you upload it to their site

First of all, you and I are NOT BETHESDA. As such, saying “Bethesda own the mod so I can do with it what I want” is like saying “My mate has made a piece of software, therefore I can upload it to another site”. It makes NO SENSE. Bethesda having a right to something doesn’t mean you can do whatever you want with it.

Secondly, Bethesda don’t own mods made with the Creation Kit. By using the Creation Kit to create a mod, you grant Bethesda a license to pretty much do anything with your work, but that doesn’t mean they own it. Indeed, the license agreement specifically states “Ownership. As between You and ZeniMax, You are the owner of Your Game Mods and all intellectual property rights therein, subject to the licenses You grant to ZeniMax in this Agreement.”. It doesn’t get any clearer than that. Mod authors own their mods, but Zenimax are granted licenses within the agreement to do a number of things with it. Once again, Zenimax are granted licenses, NOT YOU.

Lastly, the Creation Kit license agreement only covers content made within the Creation Kit itself. It would not include things made with software outside of the Creation Kit including, but not limited to, models, textures, animations, sound effects and so on and so forth. Zenimax/Bethesda are not granted licenses to that content unless authors specifically upload said content to Bethesda.net.

What we take from this is that mods are owned by mod authors, irrespective of what they contain. And as a result, the work is automatically copyrighted (as is all unique work you create) and authors can protect their work like anyone else on the internet who has made unique work themselves.


Why should mod authors care about others taking their work? Surely they release mods so that as many people as possible can enjoy them?

*facepalm*

Let’s start off with the most important and most valid response to this statement: Mod authors can do whatever the f*#@ they want with their own mods (within the licenses mentioned above), and that’s their prerogative, not yours. They do not need to justify why they will or will not upload their mods to another service or port them for use on consoles.

Saying “I believe active mod authors should want their mods being spread uncontrollably around the internet, therefore it’s OK to share their work on other sites against their express wishes” is stupid, wrong, and unjustifiable. Just because mod authors motives or reasons for not wanting their work shared doesn’t align with yours doesn’t mean it’s OK for you to share their work against their permission.

But since people tend to want a bit more reasoning than “because I don’t want to and because I can do whatever I want and you have no right to tell me what to do” even though that’s the best reason of the lot, I’ll list a few of the common and reasonable reasons for not wanting to share their work either on other sites, or specifically for console users.

The mod author is aware the mod will not work on consoles or could even potentially harm a console, therefore will not port the mod to consoles. The mod author was actively working on porting their mod to consoles, but it actually required some work to do as they needed to make changes to their mod to accommodate the limits on mods and ensure it was as efficient as possible for console users. The author prides themselves on being able to tell their users it’s been optimised as much as possible, but sadly doesn’t own a console and doesn’t want to buy a console to ensure that same quality is also evident on consoles. In the same vein, it’s hard to fix bugs specific to console mods if you don’t actually own the console and can’t test it yourself. The author doesn’t want to release a mod they can’t actively support. The mod wouldn’t actually be allowed on Bethesda.net due to the content of the mod conflicting with their mod uploading rules. The author doesn’t want to manage their mods in multiple locations on multiple sites and prefers to keep everything in one place, on one site. The author has made use of other user’s assets, with legal permission to do so, and therefore cannot grant others the right to share that work without first getting permission from the original creator of the work that may or may not be possible. The author doesn’t like Bethesda.net/Nexus Mods/whatever site we’re talking about so refuses to use it. Mod authors make mods for themselves first, and you second. If the second part, you, becomes too much of a problem for them, they’ll simply not want to share them with you at all.

That list is by no means exhaustive, and there’s lots of other justifiable reasons for not wanting to share their mods on other sites. At the end of the day, we, the mod users, have absolutely no rights whatsoever in demanding mod authors do or do not do something with their mods. Nor do we have any right to take a mod and upload it somewhere else, just because other people want it.

And finally, let's not forget the other elephant in the room; paid modding.

Lets face it, it’s highly likely this ugly subject is going to be cropping up again in the not too distant future.

A lot of the mod authors are going to have an eye to the future in the knowledge that paid modding is going to be coming back. It’s practically inevitable. As a result, they’re going to want to maintain a tighter control over their mods and ensure their mods aren’t being maintained on Bethesda.net by anyone other than themselves.


Can the Nexus do anything to stop mod thieves?

There’s not much we can do to prevent the stealing of mods on our end. What we can do is raise awareness of the issue and provide mod authors with some tools that can help them to express their wishes in regards to how they want their mods to be shared. The hope is this will help any future moderation team at Bethesda to more quickly and easily establish whether a mod has been used without permission or not.

We already have an extensive permissions system for mods, but today we’ve released an addition to that system for console modding. You can now choose from a set of options in our Fallout 4 section to express your wishes. These are:

• I have uploaded my mods to Bethesda.net and they are available for console users.
• I have not uploaded my mods to Bethesda.net for console users yet, but I will at some point.
• My mods will not be available on Bethesda.net for console users.
• My mods won’t work on consoles or would not be acceptable on Bethesda.net according to their rules.
• I give my permission for someone else to port my mods to console and for it to be uploaded to Bethesda.net by someone else. Please credit me, however.
  

If you select the top option saying you’ve uploaded your mod to Bethesda.net then you’ll be provided with two text fields where you can provide a link to those mod pages on Bethesda.net. These will create mirrors on your file pages from which users can see and navigate to your mods on Bethesda.net and also tag the files with the “XBone version available” and “PS4 version available” tags.

Coincidentally, such a system can be used by console users to browse the Nexus for their favourite Nexus Mods and see if they’re also available on Bethesda.net using our tag searching system.

And so ends the Q&A for now.

Ultimately, I think the thing that disappoints me the most is that Bethesda’s influence within the community after largely staying out of it these past 14 years has had such a polarising effect. It should not be the case that the official developer of the games you’re modding has such a negative effect right from the start with their new modding endeavour.

I’m certain that they’ll finally get around to plugging the holes in their system and making some of the stuff they’ve done wrong, right. But the very fact this has been such a major issue these past few weeks speaks volumes.

5,100 words. I’m done.

XylvanLupus wrote: Excellent artikel and very well written!

yourenotsupposedtobeinhere wrote: +1
Thank you.

Great article, you're always in the "Eyes of the Storms" and we're assured to find some serenity here.

Keep fighting the good fight and may Talos be with you !

[Marnevel]

Hmm 5,000 words to address something that should be common sense. Nice post and you have definitely earned the removal of ad block on your site 0_0 Just you know, don't spam me like crazy, and thank you for supporting the mod community