On console mods, theft and Bethesda.net

[Zorro273]

I've just bought premium membership as a thanks for all the great work the staff and volunteers at nexusmods do. Keep it up!

[sandalsocks]

My prediction? Bethesda.net will become a subscription service and you will have to pay for the Creation Kit for future games.

I can't believe I used to defend Bethesda. I still love their games, but they are becoming just as corrupt as EA.

[DOOMBUNNYakaKIPA]

Xbone users feel cheated cuz less modding than PC users. PC modders feel butthurt cuz Xbone users with access to a PC does some piracy. It's wrong to steal. It's not fair for Xbone users. It's wrong to take credit for other's work. People blame Bethesda(.aids) yadda yadda et cetera et cetera... Solution: stricter rules and less freedom. Yay.

 

...Anyone wanna sit down and drink a Cola with me?.. =_=

 

P.S. I hope Bethesda will chill down a bit, cuz if they end up as did EA, I think it'll go bad for them. Let it be like Skyrim all over again, pretty please~!

 

P.P.S. I dislike PC users thinking they're the "master race." Sure, console users got it worse than friggin' 4k+ euro PC rigs on almost all fronts, but chivalry isn't a bad thing, so people should just behave and get along. So now, GIMME YER HAND. I wanna shake it.

Edited June 19, 2016 by DOOMBUNNYakaKIPA

[MrJoseCuervo]

If a Modder wants to become the Hero of FO4 and Skyrim Modding all you need to do is develop a DRM framework that uses FASE for people to lockdown their MODS. Then if the Modder wants the Locusts at Bethesda.net to have access they can release a version without it ON THEIR TERMS.

[MrJoseCuervo]

In response to post #39553195.

sandalsocks wrote: My prediction? Bethesda.net will become a subscription service and you will have to pay for the Creation Kit for future games.
I can't believe I used to defend Bethesda. I still love their games, but they are becoming just as corrupt as EA.

Not much of a prediction. They wanted a financial gain from this the first time around. Bethesda.net is just the vehicle in which to attain that goal. First they tried to use peoples greed to rip the community apart, now they are using this to do it.

I see it as a hostile takeover of our community. Everyone should be concerned. I just hope Dark0ne does right by us as he always seemed to.

[ThinkerTinker]

In response to post #39491315. #39496050, #39497250, #39531815, #39534800, #39535005 are all replies on the same post.

tvs_frank wrote: I think the simplest solution to this would be to just make your mod rely the SKSE libraries, even something as basic as a texture replacer. There must be a way, right?

qasm0ke wrote: SKSE for Skyrim and F4SE for Fallout 4. This way the developer can focus & care about only for PC. That's the way I think.

I don't have any console so I couldn't test anyway. My Skyrim mods are all require SKSE, so if the so-called 'thief' stole my mod to Bethesda market, he can't play it on non-PC environment.

Darkstorne wrote: That's not a solution though. It's a temporary preventative measure to avoid theft, that prevents ALL console users enjoying a mod because of the arrogance of a very small minority who would resort to theft.

A solution has to come from Bethesda, so that mod authors can feel safe about releasing their content wherever they choose, without fear of theft, because they can trust Bethesda to work as hard as the Nexus staff to do protect their creations.

Consoles on mods could be a wonderful thing. The reason we're all here is because we love modding our Bethesda games on PC, to get a lot more out of them, and I'm really glad console users will be getting a similar experience from now on. Bethesda definitely need to step it up though, and focus on protecting content instead of blatantly focusing on a method of trying to reintroduce paid mods with a 75/25 split in favour of themselves and Valve again...

jonboy wrote: Perhaps some sort of key or other dependency check, one for each platform? Something you tick off in the CK, which embeds this dependency within the file where no one can (easily) change. This version is for PC/XB1/PS4 only or any combination of.

JN273 wrote: And the mod would still work on a console. Even if it requires SKSE or FOSE, you can still download the mod. They're never included in the mod, hence the mod would work because it's just a "fake" requirement.

Tantalus010 wrote: @jonboy - what if the original mod author wants to change it in the future? Even if you have a good answer for that question, a feature like what you're proposing would require a pretty thorough rewrite of how the CK works. By default, the tools implicitly trust the user and grant full read/write access to the esp or esm.

I think requiring script extenders in mods is a good temporary solution until Bethesda gets their s#*! together and fixes Bethesda.net's frankly unprofessional problems.

I definitely think we're on the right track with requiring SKSE or relevant script extender to run a mod. There are shortcomings in using a script extender as such a validation check - but this is how brainstorming and real problem solving works. Someone comes up with a good idea and people see why its a good idea at the root. In my opinion, I think its a good idea because it involves the use of an external tool that can be checked upon.

So maybe SKSE isn't the exact long-term solution - maybe we create another external tool explicitly for the use of compatibility checking for a PC version of a mod (or lack thereof, for a console I guess?) But I think we're on the right track - use the benefits and uniqueness of the platform (in this case, PC) in order to hard-code compatibility and ensure against piracy. These are ideas we can build from and that's what makes this community so successful. Putting down ideas, or not trying to be open-minded about suggestions for solutions is sort of toxic and I hate to see this community resort to that language.

[iXenite]

My prediction? Bethesda.net will become a subscription service and you will have to pay for the Creation Kit for future games.

I can't believe I used to defend Bethesda. I still love their games, but they are becoming just as corrupt as EA.

 

Bethesda Games Studios would probably be shut down if that were to happen. The community would have such a negative reaction to that decision they wouldn't be able to sell their games anymore. They already have a massive amount of haters due to Fallout 4, and have only had their fanbase get more and more upset at them since Oblivion forward. With their outdated tech, combined with a business decision that stupid - they would most certainly be shut down. You cant sell games if the fans don't like you, which is exactly what would happen. Far greater studios have been shut down for less.

[MrJoseCuervo]

In response to post #39491315. #39496050, #39497250, #39531815, #39534800, #39535005, #39554390 are all replies on the same post.

tvs_frank wrote: I think the simplest solution to this would be to just make your mod rely the SKSE libraries, even something as basic as a texture replacer. There must be a way, right?

qasm0ke wrote: SKSE for Skyrim and F4SE for Fallout 4. This way the developer can focus & care about only for PC. That's the way I think.

I don't have any console so I couldn't test anyway. My Skyrim mods are all require SKSE, so if the so-called 'thief' stole my mod to Bethesda market, he can't play it on non-PC environment.

Darkstorne wrote: That's not a solution though. It's a temporary preventative measure to avoid theft, that prevents ALL console users enjoying a mod because of the arrogance of a very small minority who would resort to theft.

A solution has to come from Bethesda, so that mod authors can feel safe about releasing their content wherever they choose, without fear of theft, because they can trust Bethesda to work as hard as the Nexus staff to do protect their creations.

Consoles on mods could be a wonderful thing. The reason we're all here is because we love modding our Bethesda games on PC, to get a lot more out of them, and I'm really glad console users will be getting a similar experience from now on. Bethesda definitely need to step it up though, and focus on protecting content instead of blatantly focusing on a method of trying to reintroduce paid mods with a 75/25 split in favour of themselves and Valve again...

jonboy wrote: Perhaps some sort of key or other dependency check, one for each platform? Something you tick off in the CK, which embeds this dependency within the file where no one can (easily) change. This version is for PC/XB1/PS4 only or any combination of.

JN273 wrote: And the mod would still work on a console. Even if it requires SKSE or FOSE, you can still download the mod. They're never included in the mod, hence the mod would work because it's just a "fake" requirement.

Tantalus010 wrote: @jonboy - what if the original mod author wants to change it in the future? Even if you have a good answer for that question, a feature like what you're proposing would require a pretty thorough rewrite of how the CK works. By default, the tools implicitly trust the user and grant full read/write access to the esp or esm.

I think requiring script extenders in mods is a good temporary solution until Bethesda gets their s#*! together and fixes Bethesda.net's frankly unprofessional problems.

ThinkerTinker wrote: I definitely think we're on the right track with requiring SKSE or relevant script extender to run a mod. There are shortcomings in using a script extender as such a validation check - but this is how brainstorming and real problem solving works. Someone comes up with a good idea and people see why its a good idea at the root. In my opinion, I think its a good idea because it involves the use of an external tool that can be checked upon.

So maybe SKSE isn't the exact long-term solution - maybe we create another external tool explicitly for the use of compatibility checking for a PC version of a mod (or lack thereof, for a console I guess?) But I think we're on the right track - use the benefits and uniqueness of the platform (in this case, PC) in order to hard-code compatibility and ensure against piracy. These are ideas we can build from and that's what makes this community so successful. Putting down ideas, or not trying to be open-minded about suggestions for solutions is sort of toxic and I hate to see this community resort to that language.

This would also benefit Bethesda because Pirated versions of their games do not support FASE or SKSE.

[iXenite]

 

 

This would also benefit Bethesda because Pirated versions of their games do not support FASE or SKSE.

 

 

EDIT: I messed up with my reading skills. I thought you wrote that they won't work. Oh well, I'll keep it here anyway. My bad.

 

SKSE and F4SE do work on pirated versions. They are not supported on pirated versions. There is a difference.

 

However, pirated copies can no longer upload mods through the Creation Kit. In order to upload mods with the Creation Kit to Bethesda.net (which is the only way to get them there) you need to link your Steam account with your Bethesda.net ID. I assume that means you need to have a legal copy of Fallout 4 (and soon Skyrim) linked to your Steam account in order to make it link to Bethesda.net to upload mods.

 

If that isn't the case, then that is a major oversight by Bethesda. If it does work that way though, then banning users that upload stolen mods is all that needs to happen next. Assuming you can only link your SteamID to one Bethesda.net account. If that is how the system at Bethesda.net works, then all they need to do is ramp up the moderation of the files on their site and police it properly.

 

Edited June 19, 2016 by DaddyDirection

[ToxicInfinity]

In response to post #39491315. #39496050, #39497250, #39531815, #39534800, #39535005, #39554390, #39554680 are all replies on the same post.

tvs_frank wrote: I think the simplest solution to this would be to just make your mod rely the SKSE libraries, even something as basic as a texture replacer. There must be a way, right?

qasm0ke wrote: SKSE for Skyrim and F4SE for Fallout 4. This way the developer can focus & care about only for PC. That's the way I think.

I don't have any console so I couldn't test anyway. My Skyrim mods are all require SKSE, so if the so-called 'thief' stole my mod to Bethesda market, he can't play it on non-PC environment.

Darkstorne wrote: That's not a solution though. It's a temporary preventative measure to avoid theft, that prevents ALL console users enjoying a mod because of the arrogance of a very small minority who would resort to theft.

A solution has to come from Bethesda, so that mod authors can feel safe about releasing their content wherever they choose, without fear of theft, because they can trust Bethesda to work as hard as the Nexus staff to do protect their creations.

Consoles on mods could be a wonderful thing. The reason we're all here is because we love modding our Bethesda games on PC, to get a lot more out of them, and I'm really glad console users will be getting a similar experience from now on. Bethesda definitely need to step it up though, and focus on protecting content instead of blatantly focusing on a method of trying to reintroduce paid mods with a 75/25 split in favour of themselves and Valve again...

jonboy wrote: Perhaps some sort of key or other dependency check, one for each platform? Something you tick off in the CK, which embeds this dependency within the file where no one can (easily) change. This version is for PC/XB1/PS4 only or any combination of.

JN273 wrote: And the mod would still work on a console. Even if it requires SKSE or FOSE, you can still download the mod. They're never included in the mod, hence the mod would work because it's just a "fake" requirement.

Tantalus010 wrote: @jonboy - what if the original mod author wants to change it in the future? Even if you have a good answer for that question, a feature like what you're proposing would require a pretty thorough rewrite of how the CK works. By default, the tools implicitly trust the user and grant full read/write access to the esp or esm.

I think requiring script extenders in mods is a good temporary solution until Bethesda gets their s#*! together and fixes Bethesda.net's frankly unprofessional problems.

ThinkerTinker wrote: I definitely think we're on the right track with requiring SKSE or relevant script extender to run a mod. There are shortcomings in using a script extender as such a validation check - but this is how brainstorming and real problem solving works. Someone comes up with a good idea and people see why its a good idea at the root. In my opinion, I think its a good idea because it involves the use of an external tool that can be checked upon.

So maybe SKSE isn't the exact long-term solution - maybe we create another external tool explicitly for the use of compatibility checking for a PC version of a mod (or lack thereof, for a console I guess?) But I think we're on the right track - use the benefits and uniqueness of the platform (in this case, PC) in order to hard-code compatibility and ensure against piracy. These are ideas we can build from and that's what makes this community so successful. Putting down ideas, or not trying to be open-minded about suggestions for solutions is sort of toxic and I hate to see this community resort to that language.

MrJoseCuervo wrote: This would also benefit Bethesda because Pirated versions of their games do not support FASE or SKSE.

I don't create mods, so maybe this seems like a stupid question. I think this is a great temporary solution, however, couldn't someone planning on stealing mods teach themselves enough code to simply remove the requirement of F4SE before reuploading it?

If a mod doesn't in any way actually need the F4SE, but instead requires it with a "fake" requirement where it won't work without it but doesn't actually need it, couldn't someone download the mod, remove the requirement, and it then works?

I'm thinking along the lines of content mods, such as gun mods. I haven't noticed if many or even any of the gun mods require F4SE, meaning they don't need it to be created. But say a mod author makes a gun mod and makes it require F4SE in an attempt to stop the stealing. Then, someone could download it, change the mod to work like most gun mods do now and remove the F4SE requirement and re-upload it to Bethesda.net, the protection has failed. Maybe this isn't as easy as I think it is since I have no coding or mod creation experience, but I thought it might be worth considering this issue if it is fairly easy.