On console mods, theft and Bethesda.net

[Aragingmonk]

"And now, after 14 years of looking after yourself, and doing extremely well, your father has suddenly come back. You’re left with a lot of questions; why did they leave in the first place? Why are they back now? What are their motives? "

 

Towards the bottom of the article the motives were addressed, PAID MODS!

 

That is the only reason Bethesda is getting involved and it is B.S.. They do not care about this community and that is obvious. We ask (beg) for TES6 and they give us (rather, console users) a remaster of a game we have worn out several times over. They keep adding to ESO when that P.O.S. will never truly be an Elder Scrolls.

 

"We have two new big games in the works! No it is not TES6, why would we do that?" Yes, I have a love hate relationship with Bethesda. They are like that girl that you are really attracted to but know you will regret it in the morning. lol

 

[iXenite]

As long as it's here, though, (yes I'm being hypocritical, but I'm sorry, this has to be said) I just want to say one simple thing: you can buy a gaming laptop that outperforms all 3 consoles combined for under $700. Just about the one and only reason, historically, to buy a console was that it was cheaper. Now they're not. (Both major controllers are Bluetooth so they work with PCs, obvious graphics superiority, etc. Not going to rehash everything else here.)

 

 

I have never even seen a half decent gaming laptop priced at $700 (let alone one that can beat the current gen consoles), and even if I did see one at $700 I could get a far superior desktop for that kind of money. If it's a form factor thing, I'd recommend the Alienware Alpha over a laptop hands down, and, it is still in the $700 range and less (depending on the configuration/model). Laptops have a horrible price to performance ratio.

Edited June 20, 2016 by DaddyDirection

[MarchinBunny]

 

. [...] The people on console, the users, that just want to augment their game DO NOT know the difference between a legit mod, and a stolen mod UNLESS they are veteran PC users, as well. You are burning a village of perfectly normal, innocent people, to catch one thief. That is insanity.

 

Ignorance can't be an excuse, no one is innocent.

 

Why don't you go and spend some time to educate them?

 

I always hate this sort of line people use. This isn't the law where ignorance isn't an excuse, because as a citizen you should know the law. This is something where ignorance is a perfectly acceptable excuse.

 

In plus, even when it comes to the law, people who buy things that happened to be stolen don't necessarily get in trouble because it's impossible for them to know it was stolen.

 

Ya, I am sure there are ways to figure it out, but most people are not going to be detectives looking at every single mod that pops up so closely. They would literally have to first look at the mod on the console .. and if there is no way to tell there, they would then have to come onto the nexus to see if you can figure it out here. (It still could be stolen even after all that, since the mod authors name might be different on bethesda.net ... or they may have not even signed up and someone else took their name)

 

No one has time for that crap and expecting people to do something like that is pretty delusional. There probably are still people who have no idea stolen mods is even a thing. The only people who likely know are those who pay attention to this site, or some other game site that may have covered the story.

 

If you try to go after innocent people, and yes .. they are innocent whether you like it or not, you are part of the problem, not part of the solution.

Edited June 20, 2016 by Brabbit1987

[moldilox]

I kinda wonder if this is actually bad for their own platform. Having mods just randomly being uploaded that don't work could really water down their own service.

[iXenite]

 

 

 

I always hate this sort of line people use. This isn't the law where ignorance isn't an excuse, because as a citizen you should know the law. This is something where ignorance is a perfectly acceptable excuse.

In plus, even when it comes to the law, people who buy things that happened to be stolen don't necessarily get in trouble because it's impossible for them to know it was stolen.

Ya, I am sure there are ways to figure it out, but most people are not going to be detectives looking at every single mod that pops up so closely. They would literally have to first look at the mod on the console .. and if there is no way to tell there, they would then have to come onto the nexus to see if you can figure it out here.

No one has time for that crap and expecting people to do something like that is pretty delusional. There probably are still people who have no idea stolen mods is even a thing. The only people who likely know are those who pay attention to this site, or some other game site that may have covered the story.

If you try to go after innocent people, and yes .. they are innocent whether you like it or not, you are part of the problem, not part of the solution.

 

 

 

 

 

Exactly. It's easy for us to point fingers at console users for using stolen mods. It's easy for us to say they should have known better and not downloaded it. But the problem is exactly what you point out. For us, here at the Nexus, we know (or at least should) know the "law" when it comes to mod ownership rights and theft. Those who break the rules here are banned. Console users do not have much knowledge of modding, most have never even been exposed to it before. Even those who have do not know the rules that we have come to understand, the culture we have surrounded ourselves with.

 

They will learn through time, and from what I have seen some are already learning. Not only have some console users come here to ask to be taught about the nuances of mod theft, but I have seen on multiple mods on Bethesda.net users either straight up reporting mods of suspected theft, or discussing whether or not a mod has been stolen. It's catching on that this is a problem - it is only a matter of time before everyone knows, and theft becomes far less of an occurrence.

[Liquidacid23]

In response to post #39498570. #39512850, #39513220, #39514275, #39514365, #39514775, #39514790, #39518690, #39518820, #39519085, #39519310, #39519400, #39519465, #39519585, #39519975, #39520120 are all replies on the same post.

bigdeano89 wrote: Sigh, the ignorant comments coming from some folks here is unbelieveable, to the point that I think you must either be children or trolls to have this mindset. Most of these people even admit to "not reading the whole article" but somehow their insight has to be more valuable than the damn article you are commenting on.

Heres the gist, shrunk down into a smaller size so you can understand. Mod authors DO own their mods, Bethesda and Zenimax own the LICENSE to it (and thats ONLY if made with the creation kit. If they make them by any other means, Zenimax dont own anything). That license does NOT extend to users. That does NOT give anyone the right to take and upload the mods without permission from the authors, END.OF.STORY.

No more of this BS "I own the game, I can do what I want", no, you cant, and you are childish or a troll if you believe thats true.

Brabbit1987 wrote: I am of the argument that, while I don't agree with mods being stolen, I think it's better to make it less of a big deal, because it's only making the situation worse.

Remember what the music industry did back when piracy was rather new? There are always going to be people who do not respect your wishes. Also, in many cases, it's not even someone who is trying to be disrespectful, it's just someone who enjoys your content and wants to share it with others.

Now, you can do what the music industry did and try your best to prevent piracy. Or you can accept that there is very little you can do to stop it entirely and it's probably best to just embrace it and work along with it, rather than against it. If this trend continues with mods on consoles, you can be sure .. eventually we will come to a point where trying to stop your mod from being uploaded will just be impossible unless you don't mind spending most of your time doing take downs.

Again, it's not that I agree with people stealing mods, I just think it's going to come to a point where .. it will be too much work to try and prevent it.

boomerizer wrote: And in my case, I feel the same way Brabbit. Although, it's more because its digital media. Once you upload it to the internet, you sort of lose ownership. You know, its not like you're actually losing anything. And the 'thief' really isn't gaining anything. In fact the only people that benefit from this, are the people that download the mods to their game.

My god, what a travesty! Oh, what a world where people are actually enjoying something on a platform that isn't a PC! *gasp*

Like I've said, repeatedly, if the thief is actually trying to claim ownership (or worse, trying to encourage donation or payment of some sort), yeah, I'd have a problem too. But if its a direct copy/paste upload? C'mon, what the flip are you really losing out on?

BuffHamster wrote: @boomerizer: Apathy, ... awesome. I have some Insurance policies I can sell to you, oh and this bridge I found somewhere near Brooklyn NY.
Accept it, "Buyer Beware" and all that.
You bought a shoddy used car with no warranty? Too bad, accept it.
Oh my, you purchased some food items that have been recalled due to Salmonella contamination? Ah well, you still have that Insurance policy I sold you? Never mind, food poisoning is not covered.
Imitation brand electronics burned your house down? Ah, too bad, that's not covered. Accept it, no, ... embrace it.

My take? Mod Authors have the legal right to be advocates for themselves and the legal right to petition their grievances as loudly as possible, ... accept it.

doomy19 wrote: @Brabbit1987 You're right, it will be too much work to try and prevent it, so the mod authors will do the most simple thing they can, which is to stop making mods because the enjoyment of doing so has been eclipsed by the problems involved. And who benefits from that? Nobody. This is the reality that the community members here understand and the new console people and Bethesda don't, that there is no way to win if everyone isn't respecting the ones creating the content.

boomerizer wrote: Wrong Again. Because now you're bringing money into it. Now I'm at a loss. Because so far, everyone arguing against this mod theft like its genuine piracy, keeps using analogies that bring in money. Currency.

There is no currency in the modding community beyond ego. Beyond namesake.

And if it isn't that, then it's anti-console types. Neither of which are valid, in my opinion.

One is ego stroking, the other is elitism. Both are insanely selfish, which defeats the purpose of the sharing of your mods.

Sharing.

Huh.

Maybe somebody forgot the definition of sharing.

I mean, if you don't want to spread the love, maybe you shouldn't mod. Sounds like you're doing it for the wrong reasons. Looking for some glory? Maybe hoping you make such a great mod that Bethesda (or whoevers game you're modding) hires you?

If I made mods, I'd be flattered if it were being redistributed. That meant I did a good thing. That'd mean that people liked what I made.

And, as I've said before, and something that people seem to be forgetting, or not paying attention to:

If the person redistributing it were claiming it as their own, outright-- not just failing to credit, but saying it is THEIRS and THEIRS alone, yeah, I WOULD have a problem. But the fact of the matter is that most "stolen" mods out there, are merely redistributed, without credit or permission.

And I'm sorry, but that is not nefarious. That's not genuine theft. That is not worth the fuss that everyone here is making it out to be. That is simply redistribution. Nobody is losing out on credit/recognition. Nobody is losing money. Nobody is gaining money.

So please, tell me again. Whats the f*#@ing problem?

Brabbit1987 wrote: @doomy19
If that is all their mods are worth to them, than that is on them. They can stop developing mods if they so wish. You know, some people may care at first, but everything moves on and people will simply forget.

Worrying about a mod you made, which you released entirely free, being uploaded in a place where people can download it entirely for free .. is just stressful. It's easier to really not care. It's not exactly the biggest deal in the world.

I am not new to theft either. I am an artist and a game developer, started off a long time ago as a mod developer myself.

It was something I enjoyed, and I expect the same to be true of current mod developers. Anyone can take your mod and upload it anywhere, and there is very little you can do to stop it. So why stress about it at all?

If you are worried about giving support, than just make it clear you only give support for those who get their copy from an official source. If you have a problem with my mod, and you got it from a place I did not upload it, then tough, no support for you.

There are ways to deal with these things without making yourself stressed out.

bigdeano89 wrote: Boomerizer, Dark0ne already stated that it IS piracy, whether it makes money or not is irrelevant, its the intellectual property of the mod author, and no one else. You dont seem to want to read ANYTHING anyone says to you do you? Yes, I have noticed your constant posts trying to defend it. You are exactly the kind of person im talking about.

Brabbit1987 wrote: @bigdeano89

If we are to consider this piracy .. than a lot of things also are piracy that are widely accepted. Let's say you see a drawing that is pretty awesome on deviantart and want to show your friends and share it on facebook. That would then also be considered piracy .. would it not?

You didn't get the authors permission to repost it on facebook .. right?

boomerizer wrote: I only consider it theft, piracy, or whatever /wrong/ in regards to mods when

1) Credit is being attributed to the Thief.

Beyond that, I count the redistribution with or without credit under Fair Use. Specifically, with Credit, but on console mods with limited description character limit, I'm going to also count without proper credit.

To me, that is all it is.

Brabbit1987 wrote: @boomerizer

Well technically it's not fair use, redistributing is against the law whether or not credit is or is not given.
The issue is, copyright laws seem to be so outdated and not used correctly these days that no one knows what is and isn't allowed. No one actually follows them.

If we followed all copyright laws, things would be very different on the internet. That share button that exists on articles, art sites, or what have you .. would not exist. You wouldn't be able to turn your favorite games into wallpaper for your computer. You wouldn't be able to own a fan made website. Technically even the nexus site is breaking a lot of copyright laws.

The reason no one gets sued or gets in trouble is because the companies learned a long time ago, it's more beneficial for them to allow these things and it just is a waste of time to try and prevent it.

There are some companies though who are pretty bad still. Nintendo is one of them.

Kraynic wrote: @Brabbit I did a quick google search for "deviant art permissions". There is a LOT of info there that talks about how things get to that point. That site and how it gets used is a lot different than here, but if you haven't read their own policies on theft, infringement, etc, then you should.

boomerizer wrote: You're right, it is more beneficial. Which is why it blows my mind authors are so gung-ho with this "issue".

s#*!, I love runnin around the wasteland with Captain America's shield. Wish it were at the very least throwable and retrievable, in the way tomahawks were in New Vegas.

Brabbit1987 wrote: @Kraynic

Not sure what their policies has anything to do with what I said.

Kraynic wrote: Their policies deal with whether it is ok to copy things from their site. It is pretty relevant, since it can vary from page to page in the site.

Brabbit1987 wrote: @Kraynic

That isn't how copyright works. For example, if a site has a policy saying you are allowed to download or copy anything from their site, and it contains pirated games, that doesn't mean it's ok to do.

Sites don't determine what is or isn't allowed. The laws do that.

Edit: Copying anything that doesn't belong to you, under pretty much every single circumstance imaginable is against copyright no matter where you do it. Course, I am mostly talking about NA laws,

The whole legal argument is kind of amusing considering this site has thousands of mods uploaded here which break copy-write laws and whatnot by containing or using the likeness of other IPs without permission.

[iXenite]

 

The whole legal argument is kind of amusing considering this site has thousands of mods uploaded here which break copy-write laws and whatnot by containing or using the likeness of other IPs without permission.

 

 

That's not really how copyright laws work.

[boomerizer]

 

 

The whole legal argument is kind of amusing considering this site has thousands of mods uploaded here which break copy-write laws and whatnot by containing or using the likeness of other IPs without permission.

 

 

That's not really how copyright laws work.

 

They [copyright laws] actually don't really work, at all. It may be a tired argument at this point, but that doesn't make it any less true.

[MarchinBunny]

 

 

The whole legal argument is kind of amusing considering this site has thousands of mods uploaded here which break copy-write laws and whatnot by containing or using the likeness of other IPs without permission.

 

 

That's not really how copyright laws work.

 

Technically speaking, if someone makes an iron man mod, that is against copyright. There are many mods here that are technically against copyright. Even fanart is against copyright.

 

The thing is though, companies just generally allow it, because it would do more harm than good to try and enforce it. In fact, for them it's actually beneficial to allow it. Copyright laws are complicated and not always 100% followed to a T. The fact is, most people here have broken copyright laws in some way. Some more than others. There was a big talk about copyright at a past comicon. It's a pretty interesting video to hear since it goes over many things we do that are technically against copyright.

Edited June 20, 2016 by Brabbit1987

[Liquidacid23]

In response to post #39598745.

Brabbit1987 wrote:

 

 

The whole legal argument is kind of amusing considering this site has thousands of mods uploaded here which break copy-write laws and whatnot by containing or using the likeness of other IPs without permission.

 

 

That's not really how copyright laws work.

 

Technically speaking, if someone makes an iron man mod, that is against copyright. There are many mods here that are technically against copyright. Even fanart is against copyright.

The thing is though, companies just generally allow it, because it would do more harm than good to try and enforce it. In fact, for them it's actually beneficial to allow it. Copyright laws are complicated and not always 100% followed to a T. The fact is, most people here have broken copyright laws in some way. Some more than others. There was a big talk about copyright at a past comicon. It's a pretty interesting video to hear since it goes over many things we do that are technically against copyright.

The thing is just because they don't care or don't think it's worth expending the effort to try and stop doesn't make it any less immoral or illegal.

I could make that Iron man mod without permission to use his likeness which is technically infringing the owners intellectual property rights and upload it here and not only would that be ok but the community would applaud my effort and praise me for it (if the mod was good). Yet then when someone re-uploads it without my permission somewhere else they all have pitchforks ready to burn someone alive and start screaming about how it's illegal and immoral.

If people are going to try to take the legal and moral stance and want to be taken seriously they really need to do it consistently and wholeheartedly.

Just to be clear, I'm in no way saying that other people using mod authors mods without permission is ok just that I find the double standard funny. Edited June 20, 2016 by Liquidacid23