On console mods, theft and Bethesda.net

[iXenite]

 

Again, not true. You don't have to be selling it, in order for it to be against copyright.

 

Here is some information on the issue.

https://www.plagiarismtoday.com/2010/05/13/the-messy-world-of-fan-art-and-copyright/

 

 

 

 

Here is a portion from the article you linked me:

 

 

 

Problems with the System

Though any unspoken and unsigned agreement can break down for a number of reasons, on matters of fan creations, there are typically two causes.

1. Aggressive Creators: Some creators, such as Ann Rice, have been very aggressive about shutting down fan fiction sites.
2. Fan Art/Fiction Creators Who Cross Lines: Also, some fan creators, either misunderstanding copyright law or feeling they have been given permission, cross the lines and either try to sell copies of the works they create or otherwise commercially exploit them. Some also try to claim the fan works to be original works, often by merely changing names around.

    

 

This goes exactly with what I said. It is an accepted De Facto truth that FanArt and FanFiction are legal. However, if you ask for money or donations in regards to your work (in other words, making a profit) you can have legal action taken against you. That or, stupidly try and pass the work off as your own. The same also applies to a very small amount of copyright holders (like Ann Rice) that have pursued legal action against FanFiction authors. These are outlers in the grand scheme of things and do not prove me wrong in any shape or form.

[RealBubbanator]

I absolutely agree with this. I just have to say one thing...... *cough* PC master race! *cough* Okay, before you chew me out listen. I own an Xbox 360, a wii, a gamecube, and a PS2. i love all my console but by far my favorite is a PC. I have absolutely no problem with console players having the ability for mods. Im actually quite glad about it. The modding community deserves to grow due to what all it has done for the people in it. It's given joy and fun to alot of people and if consoles can do it as well then im happy. But im still going to have to go with PC all the way!

[noleafcloverx]

Way to give'em hell! Too bad they will never listen....

 

Well we appreciate your work and will continue to use Nexus for as long as it is up and running. You guys do great work.

[torcher]

Bethesda messed up when they forced bethesda.net on pc players. AT ALL! Bethesda.net should ONLY be for console modding, if someone wants to make a console mod then they go there, if someone wants to make a PC mod then they go to nexusmods.com

 

The fact that bethesda FORCED us (PC players) to even use their horrible modding website (which they ---CHOSE--- NOT TO DO FOR 14(?) YEARS!) is where they messed up. (Im looking at you creation kit!)

 

It also is sad that their actions show tail-tail signs of trying to monetize the community in the future for profit. (they tried it with paid mods which got burned down to hell thankfully, now they have locked away the creation kit behind their own website.)

 

Not a good show of faith bethesda. NOT GOOD AT ALL!

 

(also a note to Dark0ne, this is a top quality read! Good Job!)

Edited June 22, 2016 by torcher

[boomerizer]

Bethesda messed up when they forced bethesda.net on pc players. AT ALL! Bethesda.net should ONLY be for console modding, if someone wants to make a console mod then they go there, if someone wants to make a PC mod then they go to nexusmods.com

 

The fact that bethesda FORCED us (PC players) to even use their horrible modding website (which they ---CHOSE--- NOT TO DO FOR 14(?) YEARS!) is where they messed up. (Im looking at you creation kit!)

 

It also is sad that their actions show tail-tail signs of trying to monetize the community in the future for profit. (they tried it with paid mods which got burned down to hell thankfully, now they have locked away the creation kit behind their own website.)

 

 

1. How are they forcing it on PC players? I've yet to use Bethesda.net for PC mods. I come here, download via NMM (usually), and install/activate.

2. Apparently, the last time paid mods was mentioned-- it was a year ago. This is, still, paranoia.

3. "tell-tale" signs.

[MarchinBunny]

 

 

Again, not true. You don't have to be selling it, in order for it to be against copyright.

 

Here is some information on the issue.

https://www.plagiarismtoday.com/2010/05/13/the-messy-world-of-fan-art-and-copyright/

 

 

 

 

Here is a portion from the article you linked me:

 

 

 

Problems with the System

Though any unspoken and unsigned agreement can break down for a number of reasons, on matters of fan creations, there are typically two causes.

1. Aggressive Creators: Some creators, such as Ann Rice, have been very aggressive about shutting down fan fiction sites.
2. Fan Art/Fiction Creators Who Cross Lines: Also, some fan creators, either misunderstanding copyright law or feeling they have been given permission, cross the lines and either try to sell copies of the works they create or otherwise commercially exploit them. Some also try to claim the fan works to be original works, often by merely changing names around.

    

 

This goes exactly with what I said. It is an accepted De Facto truth that FanArt and FanFiction are legal. However, if you ask for money or donations in regards to your work (in other words, making a profit) you can have legal action taken against you. That or, stupidly try and pass the work off as your own. The same also applies to a very small amount of copyright holders (like Ann Rice) that have pursued legal action against FanFiction authors. These are outlers in the grand scheme of things and do not prove me wrong in any shape or form.

 

You can't just cherry pick from the article. Read the whole thing, it clearly states it's technically against copyright laws. It's just the companies do not act on it.

 

Just because companies don't do anything, does not mean it isn't against copyright. Again, read the whole thing. And if you did read the whole thing, then maybe you need to take reading comprehension classes because it clearly states it's against copyright. That is literally what the whole article is about.

 

Edit: I think where you and I disagree is mainly due to you misunderstanding what I am talking about. You keep saying it's an accepted "de facto" truth that it's legal. That is literally impossible because it's illegal. It's a "de facto" truth that it's allowed. Not that it's legal. Two very different things.

 

Just because the company allows it, doesn't mean it's not against copyright laws.

Edited June 22, 2016 by Brabbit1987

[MrJoseCuervo]

In response to post #39655045.

rslayer wrote: Sure, 10 or so years ago when Bethesda was a tiny, somewhat unknown company, they sided with mod authors and wanted to grow the community. I remember specifically how they sided with modders in the Oblivion mod-pack scandal.

But that time is long past. Bethesda is in full on maximum profit mode. Some will argue all businesses should always have that mentality. Mostly because those people are stupid. When someone is growing a business generally they have a passion for whatever their work is. There are many ways to make money, and nobody ever forces a startup to be in their specific field.

The original group at Bethesda was passionate about games and the Bethesda style of open world. Modding utility added to their vision. Probably they weren't completely sure how to fill the genre out, and so put effort in creating an environment and basic ideas, and then wanted to see if others could add onto it.

But after it became successful, that original group is probably gone or burned out, and the MBAs are now running the show. The passion is gone and they only see dollar signs. And that is why you should never pledge your allegiance to any company, no matter how good they've been in the past. Just enjoy it when it's around.

The grand era of modding from Oblivion through Skyrim is officially over. FO4 started a new era. Less mods, more monetization. It was good while it lasted, but all things end eventually.

I agree, this is the beginning of the end. Like with everything else in America, greed destroys yet another community because there are profits to be made. Money isn't everything people and willingly participating in the demise of what we have here is on us.

I would prefer a complete drought of the Mods scene for all Bethesda titles until Bethesda.net is dismantled. Do whatever it takes. Sit on your creations until that time comes, have every Mod you make include XXX rated material in some way. What ever. We can fight back and should.

[diggydug]

I've not read through this thread at all, but I felt I'd just add it was this post that tipped me to engage more with this community outside of enjoying the mods. I think it's very important to support independent mod development and supporting the mod authors extensively and I appreciate that those responsible for this site truly are engaged with the community they've built and care about modding as a whole.

[phantompally76]

I don't have much more to add to this.....whatever it is. I just want to ask a question, and follow it up with a comparison. I'll begin of course by reminding everyone that I vehemently oppose mod piracy in any form, because idiots here like to gloss over that and act like I'm their enemy simply because I don't see eye to eye with the hypocrisy of this tirade against console pirates and Bethesda.

 

What is stopping console mod thieves from saying "I am simply preserving this mod before it disappears from the Nexus/Steam, because it would be a shame to lose all these mods".? Is that considered a weak and invalid argument for mod piracy in the eyes of this community?

 

Because that is precisely what the Nexus is currently doing with mods off Filefront/Gamefront. Due credit is not always being given to the original authors of those mods, and authors' permission to upload them in the first place is definitely not being secured. You can't try to label piracy as "preservation" with one hand, and then lash out at overt piracy (which at the very least doesn't try to mask itself as something else) with the other.

 

And the only difference...the ONLY difference between those examples is that one of them generates potential website hits and ad revenue for the Nexus, and the other does not. Regardless, it is unequivocally hypocritical of this community to condemn one and praise the other.

[MarchinBunny]

I don't have much more to add to this.....whatever it is. I just want to ask a question, and follow it up with a comparison. I'll begin of course by reminding everyone that I vehemently oppose mod piracy in any form, because idiots here like to gloss over that and act like I'm their enemy simply because I don't see eye to eye with the hypocrisy of this tirade against console pirates and Bethesda.

 

What is stopping console mod thieves from saying "I am simply preserving this mod before it disappears from the Nexus/Steam, because it would be a shame to lose all these mods".? Is that considered a weak and invalid argument for mod piracy in the eyes of this community?

 

Because that is precisely what the Nexus is currently doing with mods off Filefront/Gamefront. Due credit is not always being given to the original authors of those mods, and authors' permission to upload them in the first place is definitely not being secured. You can't try to label piracy as "preservation" with one hand, and then lash out at overt piracy (which at the very least doesn't try to mask itself as something else) with the other.

 

And the only difference...the ONLY difference between those examples is that one of them generates potential website hits and ad revenue for the Nexus, and the other does not. Regardless, it is unequivocally hypocritical of this community to condemn one and praise the other.

I imagine because people view the Nexus as an offical source of sorts for modding, they are ok with it, even though you are 100% right. It's pretty much the same thing.