Which faction is the best for humanity?

[TummaSuklaa]

..That has nothing to do with the question -.-

[RattleAndGrind]

 

The Railroad is just too narrowly focused to have any long term plans for dealing with the issues of the wider Commonwealth. So not the Railroad.

 

The Institute has humanities best interests at heart. But according to the basic broadcast, their implementation is one of "Cooperate or Die". Not very leader like.

 

The Brotherhood Of Steel is the "Savior of the Commonwealth". Just give use all your food and technology and we won't kill you and take it anyway. Way to dictatorial for my tastes.

 

The Minute Men are a para-military organization and are ill fit to govern the Commonwealth. Military governments tend to be rather authoritarian (see BoS).

 

So my answer is "None Really". That said, I would rather see the MM backing a civilian government than the BoS or the Institute.

1. The food quest is off the books which is literally the first thing Teagan tells us about it and we know that the BoS usually trade for their goods with currency or tech they don't need

2. The BoS isn't authoritarian.

3. The Minutemen aren't para-military they are a volunteer army that works to protect people, not rule.

4. Railroad isn't even about ruling. They only care about taking out the institute and getting synths to a safe place so they can live normal lives.

 

 

Whoops. Sorry @CinderMuffin. It seems I had forgotten what a rabid protector of the BoS you where. Had I known that you would read my post and take notice of my honest appraisal of the actions of the Bos I would have praised them just to please you. I would have proclaimed the BoS as the second coming of the Messiah and elevated Elder Maxson to the rank of omniscient, omnipotent and omnibenevolent deity.

 

NOT!!!!

 

 

 

In response to number 1 on your list and for the sake of truthfulness, openness and honesty; we find the following in the Feeding The Troops Wiki

 

Detailed walkthrough

1. You are tasked with heading to a random settlement to secure a supply of crops for the Brotherhood.
2. Go to the settlement and acquire the crops by paying for them (the cost is reduced with a successful speech check), charming them, or killing everyone.
3. Return to Proctor Teagan to collect your reward.

See. Sell, give or be killed; the BoS will have your food and are not scrupulous about how it is acquired.

 

And there are no Off the Books assignments in the BoS. You have stated as much several times in the past. To paraphrase, "BoS personnel follow orders and do not go off on their own". Are you now disavowing those statements?

 

 

 

Number 2 on you list is naive at best. Here is some scholarly treatises on the role of authoritarianism in military organizations.

• from the American Psychological Association - Authoritarianism and leadership choice in a military setting.
• from the Journal Of Personality - The Relation between Authoritarianism and Acceptance of Military Ideology
• from the journal Sex Roles - Military and Civilian Undergraduates: Attitudes Toward Women, Masculinity, and Authoritarianism

That last one is kind of tilted in its approach, but has some good data.

 

 

 

Number 3 is not based on any known definition of paramilitary. Form the Merriam-Webster website we get following:

• Simple Definition of paramilitary: of or relating to a group that is not an official army but that operates and is organized like an army

And if you read any of the articles above, you now understand how military authoritarianism works.

 

 

Number 4. Read the first paragraph of my post again. You may find we actually agree.

[Zaklex55]

Obsidian is definitely the best for Fallout.

 

The Institute is magic. It's supported by fairy dust. Dwarves mined all of their resources and building materials. How have they kept alive for so long? Don't think about it. It's magic.

 

Bethesda doesn't think that you're smart enough to ask these questions, as a player, so they don't even try to pose them. Fallout 4 is meant to be played with blinders on.

Did you not pay attention to anything you were told by anyone when you were down there? It's been kept alive and expanding by each subsequent generation, the original CIT scientists started out before the war building the underground labs/city. As each new generation was born(until they developed the synths), those scientists continued to expand downward and outward(but mostly downward). They grow their own food and product their own power, though not nearly enough to run the place without having to borrow from the surface on occasions.

 

Now as for the OP's question...there's one fatal flaw in the narrative of the game, and that's the ending. I honestly can't see any of the other factions wanting to destroy the fusion/fission reactor that the Institute finally starts up, that amount of power would be needed to improve the surface living conditions at some point, and potentially if they have the one, another could be built on the surface. I also don't see synths replacing all humans, but only certain ones, with the benefit of those being able to guide and prod the surface humans in the right direction. How is it bad that the Institute is trying to come up with better produce to grow on the surface from inside their lab/hydroponics facility.

 

As the leader I would have started sending out more of the scientist to the surface to work with the remaining population on improving their lives, trying to assist them in any way possible by having the synths as helpers. I would have invited Virgil back to continue working on his anti-FEV serum, without all of the unnecessary trials that went on in the first place.

 

Just my opinion of course...and the BoS would have been a problem, the Railroad, I would have worked with them to find an equitable solution, and the MinuteMen would have been good to help keep the peace.

[m0ds1984]

The Railroad is just too narrowly focused to have any long term plans

 

Good point, I hadn't thought of it like that. I guess that brings me to a "none really" conclusion now too. That said, I finished with the Minutemen so I guess I should give them their due. But they're no NCR, are they.

 

Everyone in the game is like "oh minutemen? yeah i vaguely recall that ancient history" (at least it felt that way to me, even if they hadn't been inactive for THAT long) so it was hard to feel I was part of anything that structured or important. Or rather -- strong and focussed. They fell apart because of a mirelurk queen? I can think of a hundred strategies to rid the castle of a mirelurk queen in the space of 3 minutes and they couldn't figure something out over 50 years?? LOL. Pussies.That said Sole Survivor does make a good leader (perhaps, haha) and feel any faction under his or her lead could probably be strengthened/put to much better use.

 

A harmonious Institute with the Commonwealth sounds like a good thing, but no-one was really harping that tune beyond a bit of conversation in the game. Maybe I missed out on some sidequests where the two relationships are strengthened, all the ones I saw were pretty much Institute vs Commonwealth (or vice versa).

Edited August 25, 2016 by m0ds1984

[cossayos]

 

 

Good point, I hadn't thought of it like that. I guess that brings me to a "none really" conclusion now too. That said, I finished with the Minutemen so I guess I should give them their due. But they're no NCR, are they.

 

 

 

 

With all the facton you have to fill in the gaps yourself. You are made general of the minutemen and you are the one to bring change. The game and it's mission(s) are just a tiny window into what you could do. If you manage to string a sufficient number of settlements together, you can give them a political structure.

 

That's why I went with the Institute, by the way. After Shaun died, you are the one calling the shots there too. They are telling you, it's time for you to lead them, iif you talk to them after Shaun's demise. Again, the gap filling is up your imagination. But you got all the technology you could wish for to provide for a better and more comfortable future for everyone.

[Boombro]

 

 

They fell apart because of a mirelurk queen? I

Did they not fall cus s#*! leadership?

 

Like did not people die and all?

 

When you meet Preston, he said that people fought and s#*!, no?

[TummaSuklaa]

The thing with the Queen was the beginning of the end. Spoilers and such.

 

 

No real leader after that, s#*! hit the fan, people couldn't agree, Quincy was the straw that broke the camals back. The end.

 

[Rodjama]

With only 4 factions to pick from in vanilla, hardly worth considering at all. But MM probably has the best chance because of their altruistic motives.

[CiderMuffin]

Obsidian is definitely the best for Fallout.

 

The Institute is magic. It's supported by fairy dust. Dwarves mined all of their resources and building materials. How have they kept alive for so long? Don't think about it. It's magic.

 

Bethesda doesn't think that you're smart enough to ask these questions, as a player, so they don't even try to pose them. Fallout 4 is meant to be played with blinders on.

Obsidian doesn't think players are smart enough to learn everything through finding it, almost all the background lore in Obsidian games are given through exposition dumps by talking to npcs.

 

 

 

The Railroad is just too narrowly focused to have any long term plans for dealing with the issues of the wider Commonwealth. So not the Railroad.

 

The Institute has humanities best interests at heart. But according to the basic broadcast, their implementation is one of "Cooperate or Die". Not very leader like.

 

The Brotherhood Of Steel is the "Savior of the Commonwealth". Just give use all your food and technology and we won't kill you and take it anyway. Way to dictatorial for my tastes.

 

The Minute Men are a para-military organization and are ill fit to govern the Commonwealth. Military governments tend to be rather authoritarian (see BoS).

 

So my answer is "None Really". That said, I would rather see the MM backing a civilian government than the BoS or the Institute.

1. The food quest is off the books which is literally the first thing Teagan tells us about it and we know that the BoS usually trade for their goods with currency or tech they don't need

2. The BoS isn't authoritarian.

3. The Minutemen aren't para-military they are a volunteer army that works to protect people, not rule.

4. Railroad isn't even about ruling. They only care about taking out the institute and getting synths to a safe place so they can live normal lives.

 

Whoops. Sorry @CinderMuffin. It seems I had forgotten what a rabid protector of the BoS you where. Had I known that you would read my post and take notice of my honest appraisal of the actions of the Bos I would have praised them just to please you. I would have proclaimed the BoS as the second coming of the Messiah and elevated Elder Maxson to the rank of omniscient, omnipotent and omnibenevolent deity.

 

NOT!!!!

 

 

 

In response to number 1 on your list and for the sake of truthfulness, openness and honesty; we find the following in the Feeding The Troops Wiki

 

Detailed walkthrough

• You are tasked with heading to a random settlement to secure a supply of crops for the Brotherhood.
• Go to the settlement and acquire the crops by paying for them (the cost is reduced with a successful speech check), charming them, or killing everyone.
• Return to Proctor Teagan to collect your reward.

See. Sell, give or be killed; the BoS will have your food and are not scrupulous about how it is acquired.

 

And there are no Off the Books assignments in the BoS. You have stated as much several times in the past. To paraphrase, "BoS personnel follow orders and do not go off on their own". Are you now disavowing those statements?

 

 

 

Number 2 on you list is naive at best. Here is some scholarly treatises on the role of authoritarianism in military organizations.

• from the American Psychological Association - Authoritarianism and leadership choice in a military setting.
• from the Journal Of Personality - The Relation between Authoritarianism and Acceptance of Military Ideology
• from the journal Sex Roles - Military and Civilian Undergraduates: Attitudes Toward Women, Masculinity, and Authoritarianism

That last one is kind of tilted in its approach, but has some good data.

 

 

 

Number 3 is not based on any known definition of paramilitary. Form the Merriam-Webster website we get following:

• Simple Definition of paramilitary: of or relating to a group that is not an official army but that operates and is organized like an army

And if you read any of the articles above, you now understand how military authoritarianism works.

 

 

Number 4. Read the first paragraph of my post again. You may find we actually agree.

 

1. I hear something, yup I definitely hear something. I believe it's the sound of you being wrong. http://fallout.gamepedia.com/Teagan%27s_dialogue "Player Default: Caps on the side, eh? Doesn't sound like official military business to me." response is "Well, it is and it isn't. It's... complicated." Getting supplies is clearly the official bit, strong-arming settlements clearly isn't. I know, I know you want to be biased but we know strong arming settlements isn't what the BoS does as it's out of character for them, it makes literally no sense and Teagan is acting on his own. Also we never see BoS on their own demanding the supplies by force, this is literally just a player tactic and we know from terminal entries the BoS get their supplies through trading by protecting caravans with their vertibirds

 

http://fallout.gamepedia.com/Prydwen_terminals

"Fr: Proctor Teagan TG-477PR

To: Lancer-Captain Kells KS-390LC

 

Now that we've arrived in the Commonwealth, I'd like to establish trade relations with the locals. I'm going to need a standard sweep and retrieve team and one of our Vertibirds in order to make that happen. There are several caravans that roam the Commonwealth, and we'll use the Vertibirds to track them. If any of the caravans gets jumped, we can swoop in and lend a hand to let them know that we're the friendly eye in the sky.

 

Since you can't normally buy that kind of protection from mercenaries, we'll be certain to get the best prices and values for trades. I've used the same tactic in the Capital Wasteland and it worked wonders. Out here, with the threat of the Institute looming over their heads, we'll have these merchants eating out of our hands."

 

2. Being a militant organization doesn't make something authoritarian especially since the BoS doesn't actually rule over anyone but those in it's rank, also there are no sex role in the BoS. Everyone is treated equally regardless of gender.

3. But the Minutemen is an official army in their own right, just because they aren't controlled by a state doesn't make them in anyway unofficial.

4. Your posts are wrong and built on biased views.

 

Also good job with the ad hominem attack on me, really helps your points and doesn't make you look bad at all. /sarcasm.

Edited August 27, 2016 by CiderMuffin

[tartarsauce2]

everyone knows militaries work "off the books" but on the commander's mind
this is like the first rule of militaries everywhere forever, war never changes!

source: I'd rather not get political but does anyone remember bradley/chelsea manning?
or the "bad apples" quote of abu ghraib etc?
the truth is that these aren't special cases in military history the world over throughout time, look at the atomic bombs, bombing of dresden, and remember here that I'm using "our side" as examples, the other sides are often as bad or slightly worse or way worse

collective punishment of groups within the roman army that failed to do their duty, something called decimation, 1/10 people chosen and their squad/bunkmates/comrades had to beat them to death themselves - was done for a reason

this all said, between the railroad and minutemen, I think the commonwealth would be the best off, the BoS has a tendency to be untrustworthy with their impositions while in play, and the institute is straight out even more egotistical but less direct in getting their hands dirty (making them roughly equal to the BoS) - the railroad and minutemen are more limited, but a lot of the commonwealth has their own way of getting by anyways - with the two big boogiemen gone, things can normalize a bit, and the minutemen are back with a strong leader, the player
and I'm sure they'd learn from their mistakes in this case, the BoS are far too bigoted nowadays, and the institute are so removed from the basics of humanity that they don't even understand the needs of the people of the commonwealth

I'll take slightly weak but trustworthy groups (given that they don't lack courage) to do honest work over the trappings of power without ethics anyday, a lot of the raiders are decimated by the game's end anyways, as well as the gunners so another quincy is far less likely to happen, and with time, the various settlements could probably form another provisional commonwealth government without falling apart due to... (if you know you know if you don't, I haven't spoiled)

Edited August 27, 2016 by tartarsauce2