Nuka World, Raiders and the Minutemen (Preston)

[Moraelin]

Ah, right. I thought that was obvious, since we're talking about the ending where the Institute gets turned into a crater and the other 3 live.

 

Yeah, the Minutemen are only hostile to whoever you're enemies with, so, yeah, if you want them to nuke the Institute, you have to get yourself kicked out first. Otherwise, for all they know, you might be going for the Institute ending.

[SignorNessuno]

 

 

And totally ruin the DLC.

It wasn't broken why did someone have to do this :sad:

 

It is about choices.

If you cant deal with that play something else don't ruin it.

 

But see, it is NOT about choices. It is either A or B, which is NOT choices.

 

Choices would include, like: " Raider, you can either LEARN TO LIVE PEACEFULLY with others, or DIE? "

 

Compromise is a choice that was totally ignored. Would a Raider want to see their blood on the ground as they start to fade into oblivion, or well .... " Hey, if I compromise a bit, I get to " Die Another Day ". "

 

I'm 61 and seldom have I seen such " Black or White " only options. Especially if your only choices are pure evil or .... and you only get to move forward if you choose evil.

 

Again, sorry ... the more I read and such about this DLC the more I think Beth, got lazy and did NOT want to bother to actually create a DLC that DID have choices, compromises and options.

 

Just hurry the DLC out the door and let the players suffer through it.

 

 

But that's the whole game for you. The illusion of choices between A and B. Blow up the Institute or ride with them. Blow up the Brotherhood or take the ride. Blow up the Railroad or do their quests. Now, I realize there's a recipe out there for saving at least three of them. But that's very well hidden.

 

But I go with what Flowerguy said. Minus the level part. To make this halfway challenging it has to be for higher levels than the initial Sanctuary environment requires. But if you choose Raider you should have had the option to be Raider. To make them your homies and not the minutemen.

 

excuse me eh

 

http://i.imgur.com/n3ZCaR0.jpg

 

In New Vegas we got multiple choises for making somethig with different results. In Fallout 4 we got only black and white options and in most of the cases turns into fights. Like there is no way.

Damn we are not in Skyrim with the Brotherhood or the Thief Guild. We are talking about raiders IN FALLOUT.

And yes, even in New Vegas you can decide what kind of future may have the raider gang you have meet in game.

or course most of the quests for the main factions have some similarities, but still got a lot of variety in quests and how we could end them.

But here, there are no choises. We are imposed to be the ganglord or if we don't wont, we must pay with the blood price.

And it's awfull since there are no choise for having a change of mind with the raiders of Nuka World. But please no response like "but in real life people...". This is a role play game and we should be able to make our own story with choises. And for me, all i see only shoting in the face your enemy like is the only way, is not rpg

[jjb54]

 

 

And totally ruin the DLC.

It wasn't broken why did someone have to do this :sad:

 

It is about choices.

If you cant deal with that play something else don't ruin it.

 

But see, it is NOT about choices. It is either A or B, which is NOT choices.

 

Choices would include, like: " Raider, you can either LEARN TO LIVE PEACEFULLY with others, or DIE? "

 

Compromise is a choice that was totally ignored. Would a Raider want to see their blood on the ground as they start to fade into oblivion, or well .... " Hey, if I compromise a bit, I get to " Die Another Day ". "

 

I'm 61 and seldom have I seen such " Black or White " only options. Especially if your only choices are pure evil or .... and you only get to move forward if you choose evil.

 

Again, sorry ... the more I read and such about this DLC the more I think Beth, got lazy and did NOT want to bother to actually create a DLC that DID have choices, compromises and options.

 

Just hurry the DLC out the door and let the players suffer through it.

 

 

But that's the whole game for you. The illusion of choices between A and B. Blow up the Institute or ride with them. Blow up the Brotherhood or take the ride. Blow up the Railroad or do their quests. Now, I realize there's a recipe out there for saving at least three of them. But that's very well hidden.

 

But I go with what Flowerguy said. Minus the level part. To make this halfway challenging it has to be for higher levels than the initial Sanctuary environment requires. But if you choose Raider you should have had the option to be Raider. To make them your homies and not the minutemen.

 

 

Actually I was reading a thread where there is an OPTION to keep - BoS in tact and friendly, Minute Men in tact and friendly, Railroad in tact and happy .. the only " looser " is the Institute ..... I'm going to have to give this a try and see what happens.

 

So yes, there is apparently OPTIONS that only the Institute suffers and only them and you keep the other 3 factions all going forward.

[Flowerguy360]

 

 

 

And totally ruin the DLC.

It wasn't broken why did someone have to do this :sad:

 

It is about choices.

If you cant deal with that play something else don't ruin it.

 

But see, it is NOT about choices. It is either A or B, which is NOT choices.

 

Choices would include, like: " Raider, you can either LEARN TO LIVE PEACEFULLY with others, or DIE? "

 

Compromise is a choice that was totally ignored. Would a Raider want to see their blood on the ground as they start to fade into oblivion, or well .... " Hey, if I compromise a bit, I get to " Die Another Day ". "

 

I'm 61 and seldom have I seen such " Black or White " only options. Especially if your only choices are pure evil or .... and you only get to move forward if you choose evil.

 

Again, sorry ... the more I read and such about this DLC the more I think Beth, got lazy and did NOT want to bother to actually create a DLC that DID have choices, compromises and options.

 

Just hurry the DLC out the door and let the players suffer through it.

 

 

But that's the whole game for you. The illusion of choices between A and B. Blow up the Institute or ride with them. Blow up the Brotherhood or take the ride. Blow up the Railroad or do their quests. Now, I realize there's a recipe out there for saving at least three of them. But that's very well hidden.

 

But I go with what Flowerguy said. Minus the level part. To make this halfway challenging it has to be for higher levels than the initial Sanctuary environment requires. But if you choose Raider you should have had the option to be Raider. To make them your homies and not the minutemen.

 

 

Actually I was reading a thread where there is an OPTION to keep - BoS in tact and friendly, Minute Men in tact and friendly, Railroad in tact and happy .. the only " looser " is the Institute ..... I'm going to have to give this a try and see what happens.

 

So yes, there is apparently OPTIONS that only the Institute suffers and only them and you keep the other 3 factions all going forward.

 

 

Yeah. There is a "hidden" ending with a guide out there on how to reach it that was actually put on Youtube by the Triple S League.

 

That's not what we're talking about.

 

We're saying that, if you complete Nuka World and actually get to enjoy most of the content, you lose the Minutemen ending (and, really, you SHOULD). BUT - if we're going to lose one of those four endings (MM, BoS, RR, Institute), we should get a fourth one back AS A RAIDER.

 

Being a raider is not the same thing as the other three, and Raiders would have every reason in the world to invade the Institute. 1) Limitless slaves. 2) Caps, caps, caps. 3) Classic Thug vs. Nerd and they love a fight. 4) Eliminate all Synth spies. 5) Insert random reason here, because Raiders do whatever the hell they want.

 

And, as I've said, invading the Institute would put them into direct conflict with all three other factions. But, really, they'd probably go after the Minutemen first. They invade settlements. The MM offer resistance. They destroy the MM and kill Preston. Insert new Radiant Quest Giver Raider NPC here. Move on to new quest line replacing the Minutemen Ending.

 

That's what we're saying.

 

As for the DLC itself, there's no reason not to switch out the Raider factions for three Trader factions and replace the Raider quest-line with a good one if you opt for the good ending. There's no reason you should have to miss out on most of the content if you want a good ending, either.

 

As has been said before, Lizzie can replace Sturges/Tinker Tom, and a quick faction change and making her essential would fix any problems with that. As would simply adding a techie Trader NPC.

 

And there is no reason you should have to go against every single raider in the place to complete Open Season. The objective is to Kill the Leaders. Not Kill the Park. The mission should not completely disregard a stealth play-through. Frankly, being someone who loves to play a sneaky sniper, the fact I can't do that irritates the f**k out of me. Why not, any way? You know what would be awesome? Uniting the raider gangs under your banner as Overboss, but as far as the game is concerned putting them under Gage.

 

It isn't as if every raider there doesn't already know that he's basically the power behind the throne who does the actual running of things. Really, this probably wouldn't be a popular suggestion, but even if you had the option of completing Open Season in a stealth playthrough, you should have to kill him, too. There is no reality in which siding against the raiders should not mean losing him as a companion. Or not.

 

Open Season could be the beginning of a completely different raider quest-line, too. It would be interesting and ironic if the Traders turned out to be Slave Traders instead, for example, and the raiders of Nuka World had just broken some competition. Or maybe only one faction of the Traders replacing the raiders deal in human trafficking. Who knows? The options as they are, at present, are few and far between.

 

Fallout is supposed to be about morally gray choices and the consequences of those choices. Always has been. People - including and especially Bethesda this time around - seem to have lost sight of that. In Fallout 4, Beth remembered the consequences and forgot the choices. :/

[cossayos]

 

excuse me eh

 

 

http://i.imgur.com/n3ZCaR0.jpg

 

In New Vegas we got multiple choises for making somethig with different results. In Fallout 4 we got only black and white options and in most of the cases turns into fights. Like there is no way.

 

 

 

 

I wasn't talking about New Vegas but FO4, obviously.

 

Also, FNV, different company. Not Bethesda.

[SignorNessuno]

 

 

excuse me eh

 

 

http://i.imgur.com/n3ZCaR0.jpg

 

In New Vegas we got multiple choises for making somethig with different results. In Fallout 4 we got only black and white options and in most of the cases turns into fights. Like there is no way.

 

 

 

 

I wasn't talking about New Vegas but FO4, obviously.

 

Also, FNV, different company. Not Bethesda.

 

the problem even in Fallout 3 we got some better choises. But it was only Good, neutral and evil. But not in Fallout 4. And i'm very disappointed, since Far Harbor is the only good dlc with real multiple choises we can made.

[Flowerguy360]

Unfortunately, I don't know Papyrus yet. I'm trying to learn it.

 

From what I've been able to tell, looking at the scripts, DLC04RaiderKickout (Open Season) calls another script fragment that, as soon as you kill any of the leaders, sets you as an enemy to all of the raider factions.

 

This is overly simplistic, and utterly screws over anyone using a stealth build. Why even have the perks if you're just going to override them with scripting?

 

Now, it makes complete sense for the raiders to turn on you if you kill their leaders - even if they don't know it was you, because at that point you have failed as an Overboss. Same for Gage and Shank, et al.

 

However, what I am trying to find and change in the above scripts are the following:

 

1) Make it so the whole thing of making the Player into an Enemy doesn't happen until ALL of the Gang leaders are dead. Yep. They'll still turn on you, including Gage, no matter what. But at least you can go in and snipe those pricks like you ought to be able to.

2) True to the mission you were given, this should be all you have to do to complete Open Season. So, after each leader you kill, run a fragment that turns that gang's faction into an enemy of the other two gang factions. If the bosses are the only things keeping the gangs together, under the banner of Overboss, losing their leader should not just turn them on the Overboss, but on the other gangs, too.

3) Add a perk called Free Trade. This perk should reduce prices by 20%.

4) Upon completing Open Season AND The Grand Tour, the player should be rewarded with the Free Trade Perk.

5) Add a radiant quest giver who is a Slave Trader... and sends you on "contracts" to do the same fun stuff the Raiders were sending you to do. Because; irony.

 

Rather than just having brazen shoot 'em up be the only option for a "good" ending, with zero reward for choosing that option except to NOT get punished throughout the rest of the game, this seems like a good alternative.

 

This still does nothing, however, to address what should also be an option: An evil Raider ending to the main questline in the Commonwealth, replacing the Minutemen.

 

And I still haven't figured out Papyrus. :(

 

Help?

[Moraelin]

Well, a stealth build actually works better than just about anything else (short of being level 100 and in a power armour) if you're going to do Open Season. Because, surprise, MacKenzie is wrong. You end up having to shoot ALL raiders one way or another.

 

BUT, if you're stealthy and smart, you can FIRST elliminate all the non-named raiders one by one without drawing aggro from anyone else. If you're not seen killing some random disciple, nobody figured it's the Overboss failing. It was probably one of those Pack or Operator guys that did it.

 

So after culling the herd down to the leaders, dealing with a lone Mason or Nisha and Dixie or such is MUCH easier.

 

The alternative, if you're not a stealt character, always boils down to getting into some massive firefights. Which, frankly, if you go there at level 30, you WILL lose every single time.

 

And I know this from experience, because, much as I'm the guy who made the first shadowed power armour and shadowed synth armour and so on, the current playthrough I'm going by a self imposed rule to NEVER even crouch, unless it's to pick something up from under a table. Otherwise, never sneak, never crouch, never even take cover if it involves crouching. And no stealth boys or such. I can tell you first hand that it's MUCH harder than on any of my previous stealth builds.

 

So, I dunno, it doesn't seem to me like the stealth build is getting screwed over. I can't call it "screwed over" with a straight face, when it's the one thing that works out the best. By a wide margin.

[EveningTide]

Gotta love how Beth seems to enjoy forcing us to be bad guys. I don't want that DLC, ever.

Edited September 26, 2016 by EveningTide

[Moraelin]

@Flowerguy360

Psst... chill out, dude. You're getting annoyed by something that doesn't actually exist. Kinda like my cat :wink:

 

Betesda didn't lock you into anything. Only your imagination does.

 

Yes, logically, you SHOULD lose the Minutemen ending if you go raider, but actually you don't. If Garvey made you a General, you're still the General. Worst general ever, maybe, but still the general. Kinda like Melchett in Black Adder :wink: You can still get Garvey to nuke the Institute. He'll act like he has multiple personalities, but he'll nuke the Institute for you.

 

The only potential problem is that you need the Castle (which you CAN'T give to the Raiders anyway), and you need need 8 total Minutemen settlements to do the Minutemen ending. Same as ever. Not sure if Far Harbor settlements count there, but they probably should. Plus, you can always download some mod that adds more settlements, I guess.

 

But anyway, if you gave EVERYTHING to the raiders, yeah, you may have a problem. Or not. You can still do Open Season to solve that.

 

And, of course, you still have to be enemies with the Institute (or whoever else you want to take down) before the Minutemen are available to end them. Which seems to be the main reason some people didn't see a Minutemen ending triggering, actually.

 

But anyway, again, Bethesda didn't lock you into anything. The Minutemen ending is still there. Most people won't even need to do anything special to get it. But IF you went THAT zealous with the Raiders that you gave them EVERYTHING, even then you can still go Punisher on them and get enough settlements back anyway.