The evolution of gamers and gaming

[AdamRundolf001]

The gaming world has always been about having fun and doing what YOU want to do. This topic is dedicated to something I wanted to get off my back for a LONG time so that I can move on and start enjoying gaming more.

 

Let me begin this discussion with this simple note... This is NOT for people who hate drama. This is for people who feel left out, lost, angry, fearful and so many emotions that we as a mortal race are suppose to feel.

 

Let me explain by an example:

 

When a man or woman is born she feels happy... blissful... like nothing could happen to him or her. As that person gets older they see more of what the world has to offer: Fun, Excitement, Sadness, Loss, Happiness, etc...

 

Then the younger sibling comes along. That person feels (Depending on what they think or what they fear) like they will be forgotten... old fashioned.

 

The same concept applies to gamers that have a hard time accepting reality. To quote a certain character: "All those with power... are afraid to loose it" This quote applies to real life.

Edited May 26, 2017 by AdamRundolf001

[iXenite]

I'm sorry, but I fail to see the point of this topic. Could you perhaps elaborate some more?

[AdamRundolf001]

The dumbing down of the elder scrolls to bring in new players... more specifically the removed class and attribute system. All they needed to do is make it to where they increased naturally or reinstate the attribute point system from daggerfall... they didn't need to just remove it entirely. I know there were time constrains and the game does feel a bit rushed... since they only had like what... 2-3 years before they released it. So the point is if you want to make your games viable to both old and new players DON'T CHANGE ANYTHING. I can understand why they cut a LOT of content out since oblivion but to just alienate other players like that... it's just wrong is all I'm saying. And then the BS started about the stupid old as dirt meme "I use to be an adventurer like you... then I took an arrow to the knee." and I'm sorry if this "Offends" anyone but if your going to just start a rage fest in the comment section, or just troll the forums then just stop. JUST stop and think about what your doing. LOOK AT THIS... it's a mess! None of this crap started until "The Elder Scrolls Skyrum: meme and BS galore" was released. Every thing was fine and everyone was happy... until that sorry excuse for a damn rpg was released. Morrowind was perfect! It had the perfect amount of difficulty and if one area was too hard just come back until your stronger. That's all these players had to do but "NO" we have to dumb down the game just to make the kids happy. I didn't start actual RPG's untill after I got out of high school such as "Eye of the beholder" "Dungeon Master" "The Legend of Grimrock" they were fantastic rpg's. Skyrim is just bethesda's call out to COD fans. This is my honest opinion and it may suck to some people but it's not your choice to just go and NAG the forum staff to ban someone just because you don't like what they said. Where I come from those people are called tattle tales. Ever heard of the boy who cried wolf... It's an old nursery rime. Honestly some people just need to sit down shut up and stop hassling other people; stop nagging and just stop the BS that goes on 24/7 365. It's crazy and pathetic... I've just had it... and this is just MY opinion and if you don't like it then DON'T POST! I just needed to blow off some steam. That's all this forum topic is about. Is for people to just come and blow off that steam that get's pumped into them from the trolls on the internet...

[HeyYou]

The dumbing down of the elder scrolls to bring in new players... more specifically the removed class and attribute system. All they needed to do is make it to where they increased naturally or reinstate the attribute point system from daggerfall... they didn't need to just remove it entirely. I know there were time constrains and the game does feel a bit rushed... since they only had like what... 2-3 years before they released it. So the point is if you want to make your games viable to both old and new players DON'T CHANGE ANYTHING. I can understand why they cut a LOT of content out since oblivion but to just alienate other players like that... it's just wrong is all I'm saying. And then the BS started about the stupid old as dirt meme "I use to be an adventurer like you... then I took an arrow to the knee." and I'm sorry if this "Offends" anyone but if your going to just start a rage fest in the comment section, or just troll the forums then just stop. JUST stop and think about what your doing. LOOK AT THIS... it's a mess! None of this crap started until "The Elder Scrolls Skyrum: meme and BS galore" was released. Every thing was fine and everyone was happy... until that sorry excuse for a damn rpg was released. Morrowind was perfect! It had the perfect amount of difficulty and if one area was too hard just come back until your stronger. That's all these players had to do but "NO" we have to dumb down the game just to make the kids happy. I didn't start actual RPG's untill after I got out of high school such as "Eye of the beholder" "Dungeon Master" "The Legend of Grimrock" they were fantastic rpg's. Skyrim is just bethesda's call out to COD fans. This is my honest opinion and it may suck to some people but it's not your choice to just go and NAG the forum staff to ban someone just because you don't like what they said. Where I come from those people are called tattle tales. Ever heard of the boy who cried wolf... It's an old nursery rime. Honestly some people just need to sit down shut up and stop hassling other people; stop nagging and just stop the BS that goes on 24/7 365. It's crazy and pathetic... I've just had it... and this is just MY opinion and if you don't like it then DON'T POST! I just needed to blow off some steam. That's all this forum topic is about. Is for people to just come and blow off that steam that get's pumped into them from the trolls on the internet...

They are 'appealing to a wider audience'.... I.E. They want to make more money on their games..... Look forward to that trend continuing. I foresee TESVI having three skills, Stealth, Magic, and Combat..... and that's it....

[AdamRundolf001]

If I wanted that I'd play hexen 2... sorry but it wouldn't be an rpg then...

[HeyYou]

If I wanted that I'd play hexen 2... sorry but it wouldn't be an rpg then...

There is a fair bit of debate of whether it even still is an RPG.......

[iXenite]

I could never have guessed you were talking about the "dumbing down" of TES based on the content of your first post alone.

 

As for the "dumbing down" of Bethesda games, I don't really see what they've done as dumbing down - especially when it comes to Skyrim. Streamlining something and making it more intuitive isn't making it dumb. The mechanics don't make an RPG, at least in my opinion. Dialogue choice, and player agency make an RPG.

 

While Bethesda really lacks in those departments, up until Fallout 4, they have managed to make games that are still very enjoyable for me as RPG lite. Roleplay, to me, isn't really the reason why I play Bethesda titles though. I primarily play them because I can make my own character and have adventures in a big open world sandbox. This creates replay value for me - and is the main reason I keep coming back to their games. To each their own. :)

 

Though I should note that Fallout 4 also betrayed the open world sandbox design I like as well, which has lowered my desire to play that game again. The reason I like Skyrim is because the main quest is more or less optional, and no one is constantly reminding you about it while you play.

[Harbringe]

They have streamlined much of the way the games work , but its far from what we see in other games. And I don't think we will ever see it go to that extent. There is both a advantage and disadvantage , yes it makes game easier to play , but you lose complexity that makes people want to explore different aspects of the game. And with modding its that complexity that add the nuance to the game that gives it a lot of replayibility , which adds value and thats money in the pocket for them. Yes they will always look for ways to improve functionality and mechanics but I don't think they are going to throw everything else out just to achieve that. How long has Skyrim been in the top 10 or 20 in sales since it came out , they dont want to lose that , a dumbed down game is the kind of game you finish in a weekend and never bother with again , yes they are easier to get going in , but they don't hold your interest.

[JimboUK]

The mechanics don't make an RPG, at least in my opinion. Dialogue choice, and player agency make an RPG.

 

 

 

I couldn't agree more and this where Skyrim and Fallout 4 fail as RPGs, there are no meaningful choices dialogue or otherwise, none with any real consequences. Both games let you run around doing whatever you like but if there are no consequences for anything you do what's the point? you might as well play GTA or Saints Row. Both FO4 and Skyrim suffer from having no reputation system, that means nothing you do matters, the world doesn't react so the world is no more than a movie set. Both are good games but awful RPGs, to be honest I don't think Bethesda want to make RPGs, they keep removing the RPG parts of their games and putting other stuff in, the fact that they removed skills and added minecraft to Fallout 4 says it all.

[rizon72]

Having played Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim I ponder the question, have they dumbed it down?

Yes and no.

I like the fact they've removed some redundancy from the game. There were too many attributes, didn't like in Morrowind you had a skill for axe, blade and blunt weapons, not its one handed or two handed especially considering I like to use all of them. I don't lose points for using one over the other.

On the other hand, magic has been completely destroyed in Skyrim. Aside from a few shouts in Skyrim, I don't use magic at all, except for enchanting armor or weapons. In Oblivion I used magic as major part of my weapon skills. I guess in Skyrim, I don't see a use for it much.

How about the objectives. I know the showing of where and who to talk to makes people feel Skyrim is dumbed down, but I like how the objectives are listed in Skyrim (although you can turn that off so you don't see such things). Its easy to see what is active and what isn't, unlike Morrowind with that journal with pages you had to flip though. I missed many side quests because I just never knew they were there in Morrowind.

I do get the feeling that in today's society younger players want a rich, complex universe and yet, be able to sit down and play the game in an hour.