The Creation Club - How to make it helpful to the Modding community, not destroy it

[MrJoseCuervo]

 

literally everywhere else in the gaming industry donations work perfectly fine.

 

The problem with modding is that mod authors and donations are a bit tied in terms of creativity, advertising and support for things like patreon.

I've been a mod author for over a decade and in that time I've received probably 5 donations total, for a grand total of $20 USD. My mods have been downloaded roughly 249,730 times over that 10 year period or 24,973 downloads per year. Now, donations have only been available on the Nexus for 5 years, so let's divide that download total in half, for 124,865 total downloads. In that time I've still gotten only 5 donations. So, if we do the math, that's a donation to download ratio of 0.00004004324 or 0.004%.

 

Now, tell me again how donations work well?

 

 

Maybe your mods aren't that good? 200k isn't much after 10 years TBH.

[Alexotero1219]

 

literally everywhere else in the gaming industry donations work perfectly fine.

 

The problem with modding is that mod authors and donations are a bit tied in terms of creativity, advertising and support for things like patreon.

I've been a mod author for over a decade and in that time I've received probably 5 donations total, for a grand total of $20 USD. My mods have been downloaded roughly 249,730 times over that 10 year period or 24,973 downloads per year. Now, donations have only been available on the Nexus for 5 years, so let's divide that download total in half, for 124,865 total downloads. In that time I've still gotten only 5 donations. So, if we do the math, that's a donation to download ratio of 0.00004004324 or 0.004%.

 

Now, tell me again how donations work well?

 

it has nothing to do with the fact that nexus can't integrate patreon on the site right?

 

That has nothing to do with the fact that you can't do numerous things like offering to produce mods for top donators or holding chatroom type livestreams with your top donators right?

 

Im not saying donations would for sure work but its obvious there is something wrong here. If donations work for youtubers, twitch streamers, semi pro and pro gamers, kickstarter devs, game reviewers, mod hosting sites like the nexus itself and every single other content creator in the industry and I do mean EVERY SINGLE ONE why dont they work for mod authors?

 

Is it because donations simply will never work or because something is tying your hands in terms how you can creatively implement and advertise them?

 

The answer is incredibly obvious.

 

Edit: additionally imagine if beth sold todd tokens console users could purchase and click to donate straight from their console dashboard? You honestly think you wouldn't see a lot more donations if your hands were untied to advertise them creatively and beth was working with you?

Edited June 20, 2017 by Alexotero1219

[Alexotero1219]

 

 

literally everywhere else in the gaming industry donations work perfectly fine.

 

The problem with modding is that mod authors and donations are a bit tied in terms of creativity, advertising and support for things like patreon.

I've been a mod author for over a decade and in that time I've received probably 5 donations total, for a grand total of $20 USD. My mods have been downloaded roughly 249,730 times over that 10 year period or 24,973 downloads per year. Now, donations have only been available on the Nexus for 5 years, so let's divide that download total in half, for 124,865 total downloads. In that time I've still gotten only 5 donations. So, if we do the math, that's a donation to download ratio of 0.00004004324 or 0.004%.

 

Now, tell me again how donations work well?

 

 

Maybe your mods aren't that good? 200k isn't much after 10 years TBH.

 

I also feel compelled to say as an aside that you need to chill out a little dude.

 

I agree with you on a lot of stuff but this is pretty baseless. Don't try to insult the quality of someones work (or character) without some evidence to back it up.

 

I have never downloaded any of his mods so I can't say if they are quality or not but its literally besides the point since even quality mod authors do receive very little in donations in the current environment.

 

There are obvious explanations why and the quality (or lack of quality) of his individual work isn't one of them so you should avoid discussing it if you want to make a compelling argument.

[MrJoseCuervo]

 

 

 

literally everywhere else in the gaming industry donations work perfectly fine.

 

The problem with modding is that mod authors and donations are a bit tied in terms of creativity, advertising and support for things like patreon.

I've been a mod author for over a decade and in that time I've received probably 5 donations total, for a grand total of $20 USD. My mods have been downloaded roughly 249,730 times over that 10 year period or 24,973 downloads per year. Now, donations have only been available on the Nexus for 5 years, so let's divide that download total in half, for 124,865 total downloads. In that time I've still gotten only 5 donations. So, if we do the math, that's a donation to download ratio of 0.00004004324 or 0.004%.

 

Now, tell me again how donations work well?

 

 

Maybe your mods aren't that good? 200k isn't much after 10 years TBH.

 

I also feel compelled to say as an aside that you need to chill out a little dude.

 

I agree with you on a lot of stuff but this is pretty baseless. Don't try to insult the quality of someones work (or character) without some evidence to back it up.

 

I have never downloaded any of his mods so I can't say if they are quality or not but its literally besides the point since even quality mod authors do receive very little in donations in the current environment.

 

There are obvious explanations why and the quality (or lack of quality) of his individual work isn't one of them so you should avoid discussing it if you want to make a compelling argument.

 

 

Perhaps instead of good I should have said popular. Your criticism is duly noted.

[Reneer]

I also feel compelled to say as an aside that you need to chill out a little dude.

 

I agree with you on a lot of stuff but this is pretty baseless. Don't try to insult the quality of someones work (or character) without some evidence to back it up.

 

I have never downloaded any of his mods so I can't say if they are quality or not but its literally besides the point since even quality mod authors do receive very little in donations in the current environment.

 

There are obvious explanations why and the quality (or lack of quality) of his individual work isn't one of them so you should avoid discussing it if you want to make a compelling argument.

Thank you.

 

I'll be the first to admit my mods are very niche products - I don't create things that are designed to get millions of downloads. My mods don't titillate or make things go big boom. So, from that perspective, it's perhaps partially my own fault that I don't see more donations. But the fact is, no matter how you slice it, people do not donate to mod authors here on the Nexus. I would gladly jump on the Patreon train like some mod authors have done but Bethesda explicitly disallows that.

Edited June 20, 2017 by Reneer

[MightyZ0G]

 

 

literally everywhere else in the gaming industry donations work perfectly fine.

 

The problem with modding is that mod authors and donations are a bit tied in terms of creativity, advertising and support for things like patreon.

I've been a mod author for over a decade and in that time I've received probably 5 donations total, for a grand total of $20 USD. My mods have been downloaded roughly 249,730 times over that 10 year period or 24,973 downloads per year. Now, donations have only been available on the Nexus for 5 years, so let's divide that download total in half, for 124,865 total downloads. In that time I've still gotten only 5 donations. So, if we do the math, that's a donation to download ratio of 0.00004004324 or 0.004%.

 

Now, tell me again how donations work well?

 

 

Maybe your mods aren't that good? 200k isn't much after 10 years TBH.

 

Reneer's mods are often overlooked but they are quality.

I always recommend Reneer's Radio Mod (which is a classic example of a mod that should have been in vanilla) when people ask for mods recommendations.

[Alexotero1219]

 

 

 

 

literally everywhere else in the gaming industry donations work perfectly fine.

 

The problem with modding is that mod authors and donations are a bit tied in terms of creativity, advertising and support for things like patreon.

I've been a mod author for over a decade and in that time I've received probably 5 donations total, for a grand total of $20 USD. My mods have been downloaded roughly 249,730 times over that 10 year period or 24,973 downloads per year. Now, donations have only been available on the Nexus for 5 years, so let's divide that download total in half, for 124,865 total downloads. In that time I've still gotten only 5 donations. So, if we do the math, that's a donation to download ratio of 0.00004004324 or 0.004%.

 

Now, tell me again how donations work well?

 

 

Maybe your mods aren't that good? 200k isn't much after 10 years TBH.

 

I also feel compelled to say as an aside that you need to chill out a little dude.

 

I agree with you on a lot of stuff but this is pretty baseless. Don't try to insult the quality of someones work (or character) without some evidence to back it up.

 

I have never downloaded any of his mods so I can't say if they are quality or not but its literally besides the point since even quality mod authors do receive very little in donations in the current environment.

 

There are obvious explanations why and the quality (or lack of quality) of his individual work isn't one of them so you should avoid discussing it if you want to make a compelling argument.

 

 

Perhaps instead of good I should have said popular. Your criticism is duly noted.

 

popular would have been a better choice of words forsure.

 

Generally speaking though, when making an argument, you want to always remember WHAT it is that you are trying to argue. In this case that his low rate of donations could be explained by something else. Attempting to use "quality of work" or "popularity" as an explainer for his low rate of donations would only make sense if other authors have higher rates. Which they seemingly dont. Notice that I never argued that but rather the low rate is explained by surrounding circumstances which also works well since most authors also seem to have a low rate of donation. I understand that this is a passionate subject for you (based on your other posts) but argumentation is a bit of an art form and best not pursued when overly passionate or without properly thinking.

 

 

 

I also feel compelled to say as an aside that you need to chill out a little dude.

 

I agree with you on a lot of stuff but this is pretty baseless. Don't try to insult the quality of someones work (or character) without some evidence to back it up.

 

I have never downloaded any of his mods so I can't say if they are quality or not but its literally besides the point since even quality mod authors do receive very little in donations in the current environment.

 

There are obvious explanations why and the quality (or lack of quality) of his individual work isn't one of them so you should avoid discussing it if you want to make a compelling argument.

Thank you.

 

I'll be the first to admit my mods are very niche products - I don't create things that are designed to get millions of downloads. My mods don't titillate or make things go big boom. So, from that perspective, it's perhaps partially my own fault that I don't see more donations. But the fact is, no matter how you slice it, people do not donate to mod authors here on the Nexus. I would gladly jump on the Patreon train like some mod authors have done but Bethesda explicitly disallows that.

Who would have thought legal argumentation courses would teach me to be nice of all things.

 

However thats kind of my point I guess. I feel like as a community we should be putting the heat on bethesda for crippling mod authors ability to monetize their work obviously for their own gain. It is even possible (as OP suggested) for beth to make some money as well from donations.

 

 

I also want to clarify (again) that I dont think mod authors SHOULDN'T monetize their work just that charge for mod schemes are hardly the best way to go about it for everyone involved.

Edited June 20, 2017 by Alexotero1219

[MrJoseCuervo]

 

 

 

 

 

literally everywhere else in the gaming industry donations work perfectly fine.

 

The problem with modding is that mod authors and donations are a bit tied in terms of creativity, advertising and support for things like patreon.

I've been a mod author for over a decade and in that time I've received probably 5 donations total, for a grand total of $20 USD. My mods have been downloaded roughly 249,730 times over that 10 year period or 24,973 downloads per year. Now, donations have only been available on the Nexus for 5 years, so let's divide that download total in half, for 124,865 total downloads. In that time I've still gotten only 5 donations. So, if we do the math, that's a donation to download ratio of 0.00004004324 or 0.004%.

 

Now, tell me again how donations work well?

 

 

Maybe your mods aren't that good? 200k isn't much after 10 years TBH.

 

I also feel compelled to say as an aside that you need to chill out a little dude.

 

I agree with you on a lot of stuff but this is pretty baseless. Don't try to insult the quality of someones work (or character) without some evidence to back it up.

 

I have never downloaded any of his mods so I can't say if they are quality or not but its literally besides the point since even quality mod authors do receive very little in donations in the current environment.

 

There are obvious explanations why and the quality (or lack of quality) of his individual work isn't one of them so you should avoid discussing it if you want to make a compelling argument.

 

 

Perhaps instead of good I should have said popular. Your criticism is duly noted.

 

popular would have been a better choice of words forsure.

 

Generally speaking though, when making an argument, you want to always remember WHAT it is that you are trying to argue. In this case that his low rate of donations could be explained by something else. Attempting to use "quality of work" or "popularity" as an explainer for his low rate of donations would only make sense if other authors have higher rates. Which they seemingly dont. Notice that I never argued that but rather the low rate is explained by surrounding circumstances which also works well since most authors also seem to have a low rate of donation. I understand that this is a passionate subject for you (based on your other posts) but argumentation is a bit of an art form and best not pursued when overly passionate or without properly thinking.

 

Truth.

 

My EQ is quite low, I am the first to admit this. I tend to kick people in the teeth before I try talking, but I was pointing out his downloads not his 5 donations.

[Chiaro22]

What is it that makes it so obvious that CC will be a death blow to modding?

You say "our" community, but who owns the modding community? Last time I checked the modding community consisted of thousands of individuals with individual opinions, even on exciting topics such as Youtube and paid mods. There's no betrayal in that.

 

As they are now donations are a joke. If donations were implemented in a way that made it more easy to use and available it could become more popular, even in the modding community, but I have my doubts. I imagine Reneer's numbers to be pretty similar for most modders, and they show just how few donate today. If you in addition to that look at how few actually endorse and comment, which is completely free and just takes 3 calories or so, I don't have any high hopes that people will donate in the future, even if it is made easier. What do you think works best: a Kickstarter campaign building up to the release of a game, or a free game with optional donations afterwards?

[Alexotero1219]

 

 

 

 

 

 

literally everywhere else in the gaming industry donations work perfectly fine.

 

The problem with modding is that mod authors and donations are a bit tied in terms of creativity, advertising and support for things like patreon.

I've been a mod author for over a decade and in that time I've received probably 5 donations total, for a grand total of $20 USD. My mods have been downloaded roughly 249,730 times over that 10 year period or 24,973 downloads per year. Now, donations have only been available on the Nexus for 5 years, so let's divide that download total in half, for 124,865 total downloads. In that time I've still gotten only 5 donations. So, if we do the math, that's a donation to download ratio of 0.00004004324 or 0.004%.

 

Now, tell me again how donations work well?

 

 

Maybe your mods aren't that good? 200k isn't much after 10 years TBH.

 

I also feel compelled to say as an aside that you need to chill out a little dude.

 

I agree with you on a lot of stuff but this is pretty baseless. Don't try to insult the quality of someones work (or character) without some evidence to back it up.

 

I have never downloaded any of his mods so I can't say if they are quality or not but its literally besides the point since even quality mod authors do receive very little in donations in the current environment.

 

There are obvious explanations why and the quality (or lack of quality) of his individual work isn't one of them so you should avoid discussing it if you want to make a compelling argument.

 

 

Perhaps instead of good I should have said popular. Your criticism is duly noted.

 

popular would have been a better choice of words forsure.

 

Generally speaking though, when making an argument, you want to always remember WHAT it is that you are trying to argue. In this case that his low rate of donations could be explained by something else. Attempting to use "quality of work" or "popularity" as an explainer for his low rate of donations would only make sense if other authors have higher rates. Which they seemingly dont. Notice that I never argued that but rather the low rate is explained by surrounding circumstances which also works well since most authors also seem to have a low rate of donation. I understand that this is a passionate subject for you (based on your other posts) but argumentation is a bit of an art form and best not pursued when overly passionate or without properly thinking.

 

Truth.

 

My EQ is quite low, I am the first to admit this. I tend to kick people in the teeth before I try talking, but I was pointing out his downloads not his 5 donations.

 

its cool dude. Mistakes in argumentation happen pretty often (ive done it under alot worse circumstances) but you just have to ask yourself what is the ultimate case you are building and why are his (low number of?) downloads relevant to that case and does that premise strengthen it.

 

I just felt a need to call out that particular mistake because I wasn't sure if anyone else (besides Reneer) would and it potentially ran the risk of "devolving" discussion so to speak.