The Creation Club - How to make it helpful to the Modding community, not destroy it

[maximizers]

Calling a mod author willing to sell their services to Bethesda a 'prostitute'? You're essentially calling everyone that isn't self-employed a prostitute. o.o

According to TotalBiscuit in his talks with both Robin and Gopher, Mod-makers can expect something like 0.01% of all downloaders actually donating any sort of money toward the creator. Which sort of sinks this whole Idea here.

 

While I can agree with you that a shortage of high-quality mods on the Nexus is seriously going to tank it's traffic and revenue, I don't think it's the end of the world. This part is only speculation and really comes down to the mod-makers, of which you're setting yourself against rather ignorantly. As for your 'ONLY FULL DLC' thing. You don't think bethesda is going to support projects like Cascadia? Lonestar? Well, news flash, that's where it's headed. They've already announced that the payment system will work by milestones to cater to larger projects like this.

 

Honestly, to sum up. Yes, I agree, Modding is going to suffer tremendously. That's just where I stand and where I see things headed, Nexus is going to have a hard time standing on it's own without high-quality mods. BUT, Where modding takes a massive hit, community-made DLC is being born. Modders are paid, High-Quality content gets a boost in production, modders come out of the woodwork, these are the benefits.

 

P.S: This may seem like a greedy move by Bethesda, you've got no problem calling them out on it. But remember... They introduced console modding for FREE. A platform with no other competition in modding, no choice if they'd chosen that, no obligation to do so beyond community backlash. Take a moment to think before screaming "THE END IS NIGH".

 

P.P.S: And hey, if you're upset about having to pay stuff. I'm sure someone'll put em' up on Reddit for free. Don't freak out. ~_~

Edited June 21, 2017 by maximizers

[wanderer3292]

the quote of a quote of a quote in these posts is making it hard to grasp anyone's valid points, and I do think a lot of valid points have been made on both sides of the argument.

 

mr.jose cuervo, I actually commend you because while it might seem like negativity to some, and has been at times, I recognize that you're just trying to defend the community that you love. I'm not as good at articulating my thoughts through text, so bear with me.

 

I don't think you're going to convince anyone of the ideas that come to you're mind when you think of the possibilities that will come of the CC and the future of mods. I think it comes down to different ways of thinking, and most people just aren't going to see the future in the way that you do. if it does come down to the future that you're seeing, with Beth getting rid of free mods down the road, most of these people will defend it, even after its too late. People will be saying "well at least we'll get nothing but quality mods now that nothing will get past Bethesda's QA". I'm not saying the opposing arguments haven't made some good points, but I definitely feel the same as you about Bethesda's end goal of releasing only paid for mods. I know some will say "there's no proff, we have to wait and see" but I assume Jose Cuervo's line of thinking is that by then, it will be too late.

 

and about the argument that we will see better mods if people are getting paid, I just disagree with that. I don't think it works that way, bands don't usually write more innovative music once they get signed. People that write great mods or music usually put their creativity into it from the start, because they love it and it's a creative outlet. At the same time, I don't blame people for wanting to make money from mods.There is no good answer for making mod authors rich while mod users still get everything for free, well, besides bethesda letting go of some of their millions, but that isn't happening.

 

In my opinion the most productive thing you can do is put your energy into continueing to learn the modding programs and make quality and innovative mods. if the worst case scenario happens, you'll be able to make mods that function just as good, and offer them for free. This whole situation has actually motivated me much more to get better with making content that I want. In the future when I see some great mod idea, I hope to be able to figure out how to do something similiar for myself.

 

I try not to post too much becuae as I said, I'm not great at speaking my mind online, but I hope I got my point across.

[Calippya]

I want mod authors to make money. Some of them have earned a god damn salary for the amazing things they create with half the tools the Bethesda team gets to play with. CC Would allow the Authors who have earned the money to get payed... because I don't (i make s*** money) donate for any mods i have or for DLC sized content like Fusion city, or sim settlements or Tina's cookiepocalypse; AND they should make money off those mods, cause they spent days, weeks and months making the game we LOVE even more FUN. I just hope that those that make it into the CC don't get steamrolled by Bethesda's bull s*** and end up making even better mods and get screwed out of compensation. Hell, DDProductions quit the series to make their own game because of Bethesda's bull s*** for beating down the creativity of Mod authors.

Edited June 21, 2017 by Calippya

[Alexotero1219]

 

 

 

Thats exactly what ive been saying. People wont pay for small content additions no matter how high quality. Very few people are going to pay money so they can have one bow added into the game even if its a really good bow.

 

On the flipside its very possible that this paid mods attempt will have a similar effect on the community as the last one and all so mod authors can make next to nothing from it.

 

Most folks were mad because beth advertised their games as having quality free mods and sold them on that premise. Then secretly went around and started talking with mod authors privately setting up a paid mods scheme then those same authors did exactly what beth did and advertised part of their mods as free then turned around and put them behind a paywall. This new attempt is basically the exact same thing as the old attempt except maybe you wont see funny memes like "literally nothing just pay me money" on the creation club this time around.

 

 

And the games DID have free mods, they still do. With CC, you will only see NEW content. No 'parts' of mods, or anything else of that nature. Apparently, it IS possible for beth to learn something. (astounding as that revelation is......)

 

 

 

 

 

Better mods huh? I have seen mods that blow away anything Bethesda has done. So I think your one and only positive point that you buried in your paragraph trying to justify modders selling out the community stinks.

 

Fallout 4 and Skyrim will be the last iteration of a Bethesda modding community if CC is successful. they will have the foundation for their paid mods in place for the next game then all they need to do is change the engine they use (Yay!) then not release any Creation Tools (Boo!) then let the fleecing begin.

 

Then its game over.

 

Yup. Mod authors have put out some truly amazing stuff, all on their own, now, just think what they will be able to do working WITH Beth.

 

Your predictions of gloom and doom have zero basis in fact, and are just your opinion, meaningless. You can no more predict the future than I can.

 

I already told you what they would do. They will Bethesda-ize mods. Lower their features and quality to work with consoles. In the end it will result in bland content that is afraid to experiment and try new things. Profitability > Innovation

 

 

Yeah, like Shivering Isles, that just sucked.

 

The production of quality free mods slowed to basically a halt the day after beth announced the first paid mods attempt. That should tell you something.

 

Also I will still see $1.99 bow mod for skyrim on the CC (but i have to buy todd tokens so ill need to spend 5usd to get the bow) again the major issues consumers had with the curated workshop are still there with the creation club.

 

What? Nobody released a major mod for two whole days? Wow. It's the end of the world......

 

Yeah, I am not a fan of the 'credits' thing, and I am quite sure that the scenario you describe is EXACTLY why beth did it that way. They get cash when you buy the credits, and it is rather unlikely that you will find a mod set that will permit you to burn all of them, therefore, they get 'free money'...... I DO disagree with that.. but, I don't plan on buying anything anyway. :smile: Unless it is something on par with Shivering isles.......

 

I am happy to just sit back, watch, and see what happens. Not like I get a lot of choice in the matter, eh? It may crash and burn, or, it may be the next best thing since sliced bread. The biggest thing here is, we just don't know. At least give it a chance. (again, like we have a choice.....)

 

Well the entire endeavor only lasted 2 days lol.

 

Yeah you are right that we don't have a choice in the matter part of me just wishes bethesda (or more likely zenimax) would have done focus or something. Consulted with the consumer in someway before doing this.

 

Honestly I would love to see mod authors employed by bethesda to make DLC. Like real DLC (read skyrim DLC that takes you to stros m'kai and some islands on hammerfell with functional sailing mechanics like the witcher and professionally made throwing weapons) if that was what the creation club was far I would gladly pay 20-30 dollars for that provided it gave me around far harbour/dragon born hours of content.

 

They could even do mini games i guess. Like you make a new character thats in hammerfell not the dragonborn so they dont have to mess too much with canon.

 

This would also mean that beth would really only be hiring the best of the best because they want to keep people buying more expansions until TES6 or fallout 5 while also making improvements to the base game as part of developing the dlcs.

 

I wouldn't just be OK with that I would be head over heels hyped for that. But alas the limit of bethesda's vision is apparently bow micro transactions.

[Zzyxzz]

 

literally everywhere else in the gaming industry donations work perfectly fine.

 

The problem with modding is that mod authors and donations are a bit tied in terms of creativity, advertising and support for things like patreon.

I've been a mod author for over a decade and in that time I've received probably 5 donations total, for a grand total of $20 USD. My mods have been downloaded roughly 249,730 times over that 10 year period or 24,973 downloads per year. Now, donations have only been available on the Nexus for 5 years, so let's divide that download total in half, for 124,865 total downloads. In that time I've still gotten only 5 donations. So, if we do the math, that's a donation to download ratio of 0.00004004324 or 0.004%.

 

Now, tell me again how donations work well?

 

 

 

It depends on how successful you are as a modder. For example my favorite house modder, the one and only Elianora: https://www.patreon.com/Elianora

 

I'm a unknown modder and i started public modding with Fallout 4 and i struggled a lot with buying the DLCs. As a student, i'm always broke. There are nice people out there who gifted me the DLCs to mod them. Also when my graphic card was broken, i also got some donations to get a new one. Since then, a lot of time has passed and donations are rare, but they happen from time to time and i'm happy about that. Its a good feel, that people love my work and support it. Yes, it also does motivate me to push things even further but i don't do it for the money. It's a nice side effect and helps to survive and pay the bills.

[JoyTrooper]

The notion that a "true" artist is purely motivated by their desire to create is totally false and you don't need to look any further for evidence than your own human nature. As if it's somehow selfish to strive for financial compensation for working with what you enjoy. Step out of the "community bubble" and into the real world and ask any adult person if someone who worked for months to create something is entitled to sell it, their answer shouldn't come as any surprise. It's essentially the same dismissive and backwards attitude used against Youtubers whenever Youtube screws with their revenue: "Go get a real job", as if creating videos can't possibly be anything more than a free hobby and pretend that the same level of quantity and quality is achievable without financial support. This whole discussion isn't about right or wrong, it's not about what's best for "our community", it's what's best for me and my interests as a mod user and a mod author. You don't want to pay for a mod, that's fine, don't buy it, but don't pretend like your interest in free mods is more important than a creators interest in selling their own work.

[Reneer]

It depends on how successful you are as a modder. For example my favorite house modder, the one and only Elianora: https://www.patreon.com/Elianora

Â

I'm a unknown modder and i started public modding with Fallout 4 and i struggled a lot with buying the DLCs. As a student, i'm always broke. There are nice people out there who gifted me the DLCs to mod them. Also when my graphic card was broken, i also got some donations to get a new one. Since then, a lot of time has passed and donations are rare, but they happen from time to time and i'm happy about that. Its a good feel, that people love my work and support it. Yes, it also does motivate me to push things even further but i don't do it for the money. It's a nice side effect and helps to survive and pay the bills.

Bethesda explicitly forbids mod authors from using Patreon or Kickstarter (source).

 

That being said, it's not the point. The point is that the percentage of downloads to donations is absolutely terrible and always has been.

[MrJoseCuervo]

 

It depends on how successful you are as a modder. For example my favorite house modder, the one and only Elianora: https://www.patreon.com/Elianora

Â

I'm a unknown modder and i started public modding with Fallout 4 and i struggled a lot with buying the DLCs. As a student, i'm always broke. There are nice people out there who gifted me the DLCs to mod them. Also when my graphic card was broken, i also got some donations to get a new one. Since then, a lot of time has passed and donations are rare, but they happen from time to time and i'm happy about that. Its a good feel, that people love my work and support it. Yes, it also does motivate me to push things even further but i don't do it for the money. It's a nice side effect and helps to survive and pay the bills.

Bethesda explicitly forbids mod authors from using Patreon or Kickstarter (source).

 

That being said, it's not the point. The point is that the percentage of downloads to donations is absolutely terrible and always has been.

 

 

Only a few people are making that the point. Money for modding was never the point until people like you got butt-hurt over Youtubers making money.

[Reneer]

Only a few people are making that the point. Money for modding was never the point until people like you got butt-hurt over Youtubers making money.

Ad hominem and an appeal to tradition. Nice.

[steamteck]

 

literally everywhere else in the gaming industry donations work perfectly fine.

 

The problem with modding is that mod authors and donations are a bit tied in terms of creativity, advertising and support for things like patreon.

I've been a mod author for over a decade and in that time I've received probably 5 donations total, for a grand total of $20 USD. My mods have been downloaded roughly 249,730 times over that 10 year period or 24,973 downloads per year. Now, donations have only been available on the Nexus for 5 years, so let's divide that download total in half, for 124,865 total downloads. In that time I've still gotten only 5 donations. So, if we do the math, that's a donation to download ratio of 0.00004004324 or 0.004%.

 

Now, tell me again how donations work well?

 

I looked you upon the nexus sites I know because I noticed I'd never donated to you but There's really not many from you beyond Oblivion modwise and donations really weren't thing back then. I do know personally I've donated several hundred dollars to author's I've liked. I guess I'm the exception. If you make something that rocks my socks, I promise I'll donate.