The Creation Club - How to make it helpful to the Modding community, not destroy it

[PoorlyAged]

Fear and paranoia are not imaginary to the person who suffers from them. But fear and paranoia is meaningful only in the realm of the paranoid delusions of the person who believes that the world; or one or more of its major organizations, is conspiring against them personally. These delusions are not real outside of the imagination of the delusional. Further, insistence by the delusional that the world must believe their delusions is one of the symptoms leading to a diagnosis of delusional paranoia.

 

Comparing Sierra Games to Bethesda is the equivalent of comparing Ford Motor Corporation to General Motors Corporation. They are two different and distinct companies that make similar products. The comparison ends there, is meaningless on its face; and proves absolutely nothing. The only thing accomplished by this type of comparison is the fueling of the fantasies which lead to a delusional paranoid conspiracy theory.

 

As for @MrJoseCuervo proving his statement that he is privy to "insider scoop", he will be unwilling and unable to do so. His claim of "inside scoop" is just another transparent self aggrandizing fabrication. This type of fabrication is another symptom which demonstrates a delusional paranoid state. Furthermore, an individual who believes their own fabrications is exhibiting additional symptoms of a delusional paranoid condition.

 

Persons who present with these symptoms should be encouraged to immediately seek help from a mental health professional.

[Transient3292]

You prove my point. ÃÂ Irrational fear based on wild speculation, imaginary injuries and regurgitated paranoia. ÃÂ

ÃÂ

Please think before replying. ÃÂ The human brain is meant to be more than filler to prevent our skulls from collapsing.

it's not irrational fear or wild specualtion. maybe some people think of it irrationally , but it is logical from a business person who's invested point of view. I think it's irrational rose colored glasses, letting your personal view of someone that you look up to, because they made something you love dictate what a business would or would not do. No one is claiming that it's a fact what will or will not happen, but to think these things are impossible because you wouldn't do that if you were in charge is not logical. and I'm not even saying that todd howard is an asshole or whatever, but bethesda game studios have someone to answer to, and those people have investors , or people that they answer to. whoever is at the top of the chain is certainly more concerned with money than what us gamers feel is a good idea. for them to eliminate something that directly competes with their product that brings in money is certainly not illogical, in fact from a business point of view, it makes perfect sense. Edited June 29, 2017 by wanderer3292

[PoorlyAged]

I will agree with only one point. It is irrational to believe that a business which wishes to make a profit would engage in a practice that looses them money.

 

The point that you and others seem to deliberately ignore is that it is equally irrational to believe that a business would abandon an avenue that makes them money. At E3 2015; during the Fallout 4 announcement, Todd Howard said that free content (mods) actually helps sell Bethesda's games and discontinuing the Creation Kit was not in Bethesda's plans. But his simple statement is ignored. Instead we have an overabundance of hand wringing Chicken Little paranoid doom day prophesies.

[MrJoseCuervo]

Console users with no access to free content outnumber PC users who do. The elimination of free mods will increase Bethesda SOFTWORKS profits because the console users will probably pay for mods that have always been free since users formed the modding community.

 

If you are too obtuse to see how this is in fact the beginning of the end of the modding scene and of our community then I don't think anything will convince you. Taking over and eliminating free mods is a win win scenario for them. They can trickle out content without competition from the free modding community and can force an end of life on their products to entice people to buy their next game by stopping the release of available mods. No more keeping Skyrim going on for 10 years when they can force it to die and sell you Skyrim 2.

[PoorlyAged]

It is not a fact that the Creation Club is the beginning of the end for free mods. It is speculation, and you and others have fixated on this speculation. You and yours have provided no relevant facts to support that speculation and in fact have fabricated sources in support of your speculation. Yet you persist in proclaiming your speculation as "truth".

 

But the truth is that user developed content (mods) makes money for Bethesda by increasing the sales of their games (Todd Howard, E3 2015 Fallout 4 Announcement). It has been estimated that approximately half of those which successfully enter the Creation Club will be "teams and other corporate entities" capable of producing large complex content. For individual mod authors, the best and most generous estimate is that only 15-20% of all mod authors will will be accepted into the Creation Club. The other 80-85% of mod authors will still be out here capable of creating content.

 

Do you honestly believe that Bethesda is stupid enough to cut off a group of literally thousands of authors capable of contributing content which will help to sell their games and increase their revenue source?

 

If you want to fixate on speculation, try this on for size. Where will the future applicants to the Creation Club come from if Bethesda discontinues the Creation Kit and shuts down other mod generating sources? Who will have the experience necessary to successfully apply to the Creation Club making it possible to bring in new blood? Current thinking is that the free modding community will continue to be Bethesda's breeding ground for new talent. It costs Bethesda nothing as these mod authors are self motivated and self educated, bring fresh insights and provide new and imaginative solutions. Bethesda will ENCOURAGE the free modding community as it serves their self interest.

 

How is that for obtuse?

Edited June 29, 2017 by PoorlyAged

[MrJoseCuervo]

You are under the incorrect assumption that this mod community is the only source for talent. It isn't. We are talking about making mods, not building spacecraft.

 

You are deluded about the extent of special skills this hobby requires. And I have pointed out facts. You just choose to ignore them. Obtuse indeed.

[Reneer]

You are under the incorrect assumption that this mod community is the only source for talent. It isn't. We are talking about making mods, not building spacecraft.

 

You are deluded about the extent of special skills this hobby requires. And I have pointed out facts. You just choose to ignore them. Obtuse indeed.

Your argument is based purely on your own assumptions of how Bethesda / ZeniMax may act in the future. You have presented no facts as far as I can see.

Edited June 29, 2017 by Reneer

[VIitS]

Console users with no access to free content outnumber PC users who do. The elimination of free mods will increase Bethesda SOFTWORKS profits because the console users will probably pay for mods that have always been free since users formed the modding community.

 

If you are too obtuse to see how this is in fact the beginning of the end of the modding scene and of our community then I don't think anything will convince you. Taking over and eliminating free mods is a win win scenario for them. They can trickle out content without competition from the free modding community and can force an end of life on their products to entice people to buy their next game by stopping the release of available mods. No more keeping Skyrim going on for 10 years when they can force it to die and sell you Skyrim 2.

Mods let them sell Skyrim to consoles twice, and they are also working on a VR version, which I doubt would be happening if there wasn't still significant interest in it. Them being able to sell the same game three times (4 if you count the Switch) means profit margins most games can't come near.

 

Plus, it'll be several years at least till TES6 (if they want people playing anything right now, it's ESO). If you really think the existence of free mods will effect sales of TES6 (especially for console gamers), you really don't understand the market at all. It might make people less likely to spend hundreds/thousands of hours in it if TES6 doesn't have free mods, but unless they have a continuous monetization system (like GTA online with Shark cards) what do they care if someone plays 60 hours or 600?

[Transient3292]

It is not a fact that the Creation Club is the beginning of the end for free mods. ÃÃÂ It is speculation, and you and others have fixated on this speculation. ÃÃÂ You and yours have provided no relevant facts to support that speculation and in fact have fabricated sources in support of your speculation. ÃÃÂ Yet you persist in proclaiming your speculation as "truth".

ÃÃÂ

But the truth is that user developed content (mods) makes money for Bethesda by increasing the sales of their games (Todd Howard, E3 2015 Fallout 4 Announcement). ÃÃÂ It has been estimated that approximately half of those which successfully enter the Creation Club will be "teams and other corporate entities" capable of producing large complex content. ÃÃÂ For individual mod authors, the best and most generous estimate is that only 15-20% of all mod authors will will be accepted into the Creation Club. ÃÃÂ The other 80-85% of mod authors will still be out here capable of creating content. ÃÃÂ

ÃÃÂ

Do you honestly believe that Bethesda is stupid enough to cut off a group of literally thousands of authors capable of contributing content which will help to sell their games and increase their revenue source?ÃÃÂ

ÃÃÂ

If you want to fixate on speculation, try this on for size. ÃÃÂ Where will the future applicants to the Creation Club come from if Bethesda discontinues the Creation Kit and shuts down other mod generating sources? ÃÃÂ Who will have the experience necessary to successfully apply to the Creation Club making it possible to bring in new blood? ÃÃÂ Current thinking is that the free modding community will continue to be Bethesda's breeding ground for new talent. ÃÃÂ It costs Bethesda nothing as these mod authors are self motivated and self educated, bring fresh insights and provide new and imaginative solutions. ÃÃÂ Bethesda will ENCOURAGE the free modding community as it serves their self interest.

ÃÃÂ

How is that for obtuse?

I'll assume your insults aren't directed at me because I've yet to insult anyone for their opinion.

 

I haven't seen any facts that prove what is or isn't going happen on either side. it's such a big discussion with so many opinions that it has been understandably split into 2 sides.

 

on a basic level I do think that eventually bethesda will take control of what comes out. I understand where you are coming from about killing their talent pool, and that is a reasonable opinion. Personally I just think that the higher ups are more worried about numbers, and the losses that you mention will be well made up for with the cost of all mods costing money for console players.

 

I think both arguments can be made rationally, at this point we just don't know. personally I don't think todd Howards team of developers are the end all decision makers. I would bet money that when companies like zenimax see how much money micro transactions brings in, they are trying to find ways to implement them into more games.

 

I just dont think being skeptical of this massive company is irrational fear or paranoia. I actually give bethesda game studios the benefit of the doubt, but I think they have to answer to someone.

 

Also I don't think they'll discontinue the CK. they could easily not release one for the next game though. a pool of mod authors won't be an issue becuae they'll have already recruited many that have been making the quality mods for the last few years, and the CC will be an outlet for their own developers to keep putting out content.

Edited June 29, 2017 by wanderer3292

[MrJoseCuervo]

There is not a single real world example of any other outcome. Show one where a corporation came into a hobbyist community and improved it and helped it thrive rather than privatizing and monetizing it for their own exploitation. In my 50 years I have not seen one instance of this happening. Ever.

 

IF Bethesda had a history of improving their games, not releasing half finished bug infested software, Making it more in depth and engaging rather than catering to the lowest standards for the most sale opportunities ( consoles) then you know I wouldn't be as pessimistic as I am. I wish I was a clueless sycophant fanboy then I wouldn't be so bummed that we will be losing what has been a great community and vehicle for gaming. This is why I choose to no longer invest my time or energy into a product that will use its fan base then toss them aside when they see a better avenue for profit available.