LE Appeal to close down a savegame-dangerous mod

[Arthmoor]

Bear in mind that this mod was made pre-CK and looking at the description it seems to be a WIP (last version is 0.52 which means it is in an advanced stage and not yet version 1).

 

Not saying this is why, but IMO, using pre-CK mods is risky beyond belief. The record definitions were NOT KNOWN at the time, and people were almost blindly poking things with TESSnip and raw hex edits. The modding community apparently never bothered to learn the lessons of FO3 when stuff like this hit the net and promptly resulted in corrupt mods and saves. The official forum was filled with endless complaints about it before the GECK went live and some of those mods linger here on Nexus to this day.

 

I always tell people not to use stuff that was generated prior to the CK for this reason. Skyrim's community is going to be suffering from this for months to come, perhaps even years, because so many people got impatient and insisted on using tools with bad record data to make mods with.

[ilDuderoni]

Thing is... I've used TUM from the start of its existence. So not only was it probably my first 'proper' mod I installed save for a few retextures, it's been included in my game ever since. So did the "crack" in my savegame come to be simply because TUM was pre-CK?

 

Either way, there is no use of me changing my statement. My desire is to remove or fix the error in my savegame, regardless of TUM being the culprit.

And if it ever updates to 0.53, it would be a post-CK release.

So when I think about it, my only solution for now is to simply suffer TUM until it can update.

 

If you sense confusion in my post, you're dead on right.

[blove]

If a full cell reset does not fix your issue, re-install and start a new game. No sense wasting time with "investigations". Actually, I think that is pretty shitty, too.

[Sunnie]

Bear in mind that this mod was made pre-CK and looking at the description it seems to be a WIP (last version is 0.52 which means it is in an advanced stage and not yet version 1).

 

Not saying this is why, but IMO, using pre-CK mods is risky beyond belief. The record definitions were NOT KNOWN at the time, and people were almost blindly poking things with TESSnip and raw hex edits. The modding community apparently never bothered to learn the lessons of FO3 when stuff like this hit the net and promptly resulted in corrupt mods and saves. The official forum was filled with endless complaints about it before the GECK went live and some of those mods linger here on Nexus to this day.

 

I always tell people not to use stuff that was generated prior to the CK for this reason. Skyrim's community is going to be suffering from this for months to come, perhaps even years, because so many people got impatient and insisted on using tools with bad record data to make mods with.

 

I agree with this, with a caveat.

 

Pre-toolset mods definitely need to be redone with the toolset. My arrow mod had a number of phantom issues that I just could not solve, even though I pulled it into the toolset and fixed everything I knew was sort of broken. Took a complete redo in the toolset to have all the little issues just magically go away.

 

That said, people got impatient because of the rather long wait for the toolset. Had Bethesda released it a lot closer to the games release, a lot of these now lingering issues would have never happened. I don't fault Bethesda for a late release, just stating that things would be much different had they really tried to meet what they had a large part of the community expecting, or even just had good communication with the community about where things were.

[Sunnie]

Thing is... I've used TUM from the start of its existence. So not only was it probably my first 'proper' mod I installed save for a few retextures, it's been included in my game ever since. So did the "crack" in my savegame come to be simply because TUM was pre-CK?

 

Either way, there is no use of me changing my statement. My desire is to remove or fix the error in my savegame, regardless of TUM being the culprit.

And if it ever updates to 0.53, it would be a post-CK release.

So when I think about it, my only solution for now is to simply suffer TUM until it can update.

 

If you sense confusion in my post, you're dead on right.

 

I've heard that the problem with removing Tytanis is that the spells it includes are the culprit.

Not sure because I refuse to use any large compilation packages. However, if it does indeed add new spells, you can try manually removing them with the console, doing a save, then disable the Tytanis stuff and see if your save game doesn't crash anymore.

[blove]

General Stats and spells...favorite spell or maybe a shout?

 

With your save and TUM installed, check your favorite spell. If it is a TUM spell, try changing it (thinking godmode and wailing on a vanilla spell). It might take a lot of casts. Once it is changed, make a new save, uninstall TUM, and try loading your new save.

[ilDuderoni]

I've heard that the problem with removing Tytanis is that the spells it includes are the culprit.

Not sure because I refuse to use any large compilation packages. However, if it does indeed add new spells, you can try manually removing them with the console, doing a save, then disable the Tytanis stuff and see if your save game doesn't crash anymore.

 

General Stats and spells...favorite spell or maybe a shout?

 

With your save and TUM installed, check your favorite spell. If it is a TUM spell, try changing it (thinking godmode and wailing on a vanilla spell). It might take a lot of casts. Once it is changed, make a new save, uninstall TUM, and try loading your new save.

Those are both excellent idea's! I am first going to try bLove's idea, and then move on to Sunnie's.

Thing is, if it was a spell-list issue as Sunnie suggest, I think it might be the culprit for those having a similar issue, but have it for the Magic Screen instead.

blove's idea makes more sense to my case in specific because, essentially, this does finger TUM as the culprit without it actually being its fault. There was no buggy coding involved in my problem. (not to say there isnt any, but it's not involved in the problem)

 

And blove, investigating is important, because this will allow us to more efficiently recognize and help other players who have this issue. The whole reason I made the topic was to stop this bug dead in its track a.s.a.p. I tend to call this "paving the way for others".

But I still very much appreciate your idea and might even believe it could've been the culprit after all.

Edited February 22, 2012 by RJ the Shadow

[nosisab]

Can't tell first hand about any possible issue coming from Tytanis mod, because I never installed it and this because it started from the idea of being a compilation, what I deem hard to maintain and to keep updated.

 

Still, is not ease to ask to remove a mod based in how harmful that procedure can be to saved games, for most are in a way or another. Sometimes is enough to change the load order for a savegame to stop working all together.

 

There are two main levels for this problem, the most common is if the mod has ESM and some other mod use it. In this case the change in the patch can't solve the problem and the remaining mod needs to be taken down too.

 

The second case most of times can be solved using Wrye's bash, at the "Saves" tab. That beta patch possibly uses a similar mechanism to clean orphaned entries in the savegame, it possibly will solve that Tytanis problem.

 

On the other hand, the real question is: are the individual mods still being worked and updated? if the answer is yes, then Tytanis is out placed and should not indeed be used anymore (the general advice is such compilations should not be used from start). The reason behind this argument is it is not doing something like FCOM, which is not meant just to compile those covered overhauls but actually patch then so they can be used together, what makes it obligatory.

 

If the individual mods are stagnated too, either they reached a point the author believe it is finished unless a bug is found or a mod is bugged and abandoned. If one only case of this last type can be pointed in Tytanis, the claim to remove it proceeds, otherwise it doesn't. Case the author really abandoned the project, even not having real bug, maybe the warning about the fact should be highlighted in the description.

 

To end this post, that subject should be directed to where the author is supposed to become aware of it, as it was introduced in this thread I can't agree and deem it malicious even if was not the OP's intention (and I believe his intentions are good and he believes the mod's harmfulness).

Edited February 22, 2012 by nosisab

[jimhsu]

This thread is partially why I rely on massively redundant backup strategies when dealing with Beth games. I have years of versionsd backups with Crashplan, mirrored to at least 2 locations - thus I can restore everything, datafiles/saves/preferences, to any date (say 5 pm at 2/12/10). Unfortunately that's the strategy you need to take with Beth games - learned the hard way also.

[ilDuderoni]

Right...

 

So, back in the direction the topic had actually gone at this point, apparantly doing blove's suggestion has worked!

I basically sat down for about five minutes, spamming double-hand equilibrium and healing a few times, and soon enough, it replaced the Midas Healing Beam it formerly had as favorite spell.

Then I disabled the Tytanis.esp, worked! Complete uninstall through NMM: double worked!

 

So thank you to everyone who's been supportive, appropriate kudos has been given!

I would suggest to lock the topic because I have the idea that many will only read the first post and call me a troll once more.

And aptly saying "Read the @#$%ing topic" is only funny for five to ten times.

Edited February 22, 2012 by RJ the Shadow