Are Creation Club products mods?

[Taramafor]

Ehhh, I'll just quote what I said in another thread. I don't feel like typing up another wall about it.

[PeterMartyr]

Is water wet? Of course they not modifications, they are fully supported DLC. It doesn't take wall of text to explain that. But we all entitle to an opinion, like mine, the counts for Jack Shite.

 

The future is dictated by economics, as consumers, you actually control the future, so choose wisely.

 

In regards to paying for stuff like CC? The only way it can offend is: If your thinking of buying something, && It's Pricey Tags Offends You!

 

If CC simple existence is a problem? You have NO LIFE, get one.

 

Perspective, use it or lose it.

[TheMastersSon]

 

When you make money from other people's games, it's sponging.

And what's it called when you expect content made by other people's time and talent to be free? Clue: it's in my previous post....

 

It's called basic logic, not to mention current U.S. contract law, when the other people were never under contract with nor even asked by a software developer to spend a single second of their time and talent -- modifying the developer's software.

 

IMO this thread is a reminder that the pit of entitlement mentality is indeed bottomless. So I won't waste any more of my or the forum's time debating the future. See where Bethesda's modding community is a year from now and I sincerely hope I'm wrong about my own predictions.

[gnarly1]

 

 

When you make money from other people's games, it's sponging.

And what's it called when you expect content made by other people's time and talent to be free? Clue: it's in my previous post....

 

It's called basic logic, not to mention current U.S. contract law, when the other people were never under contract with nor even asked by a software developer to spend a single second of their time and talent -- modifying the developer's software.

I think this easily qualifies as "not even wrong". It's a statement so ignorant of the actual context as to be more or less meaningless.

 

 

 

IMO this thread is a reminder that the pit of entitlement mentality is indeed bottomless.

More hyperbolic generalising.

 

 

 

See where Bethesda's modding community is a year from now and I sincerely hope I'm wrong about my own predictions.

You're not the first false prophet of doom and you won't be the last. It's interesting out of all the people who have predicted the cataclysmic demise of the modding community over the years, to my knowledge not a single one has had the decency to admit they were wrong. You could be the first...! :yes:

[Ethreon]

Please stop arguing with this person, it leads nowhere.

[Taramafor]

Sod it. I'll just quote myself from the other thread.

 

It's Bethesda trying to charge money for content that is basically mods. Again. When I buy a game I buy "the game". And if I have it for 5 years I expect to have the full content at that point. Not something released with yet another price tag slapped on. Survival might be free for now, but it's going to cost £15 later. And later content put in Skyrim likely won't have the "Buy now for free" thing. And mods have done it better. Which adds further insult to injury.

The ONLY time this doesn't apply is when the content is on a large scale. New maps, multiple units and factions spread out. New story content. A MULTIPLE number of things that enhance the gameplay. If we give in to paying for survival now it's going to risk having to Beth charge for horse armor later. Bethesda had their chance and they messed up. And here I see a over 5 year old game getting an additional price tag slapped on. Yes the company wants money for other games. No that doesn't mean THIS game gets away with being paid through the nose for. Especially when mods have already done it. The only real change is the debuffs (since frostfall and needs and requirements were clearly pasted. Not a bad thing in and of itself), but that's a simple enough thing to do. And certainty shouldn't have taken over 5 years to do it.

Now if it was a donation system I wouldn't mind at all. Anything from creation club could then be paid for due to the content alone. In other words if there's a small donation for the current content it could be a hint to the makers that more things need to be added in. And if there's a large donation (and this can be well over an asking price) it could be a sign that it's doing something right. Either way it's a sign that there's some form of feedback to be had. You simply do not get that with fixed prices. I bet Bethesda would be actually getting money from creation club easily if they implemented a donation funded system. But they are once again trying to force "mod content" on the players. It started with Oblivion horse armor. It's continued in Fallout 4 (though I don't know the history with creation club with Fallout 4) and it's continued into survival with Skyrim. There's no "early days" about it. It's been going on for years as it is.

At least they're no longer trying to charge people for mods other people made. To quote what I said earlier, if modders do good work I would encourage donations to the mod makers. I'm quite proud of campfire myself. Love my immersion. Going to point out that immersive things like this are lacking in survival in Skyrim. I think that says it all.

 

[gnarly1]

Please stop arguing with this person, it leads nowhere.

It did lead somewhere: Victory.

[TheMastersSon]

 

 

 

When you make money from other people's games, it's sponging.

And what's it called when you expect content made by other people's time and talent to be free? Clue: it's in my previous post....

 

It's called basic logic, not to mention current U.S. contract law, when the other people were never under contract with nor even asked by a software developer to spend a single second of their time and talent -- modifying the developer's software.

I think this easily qualifies as "not even wrong". It's a statement so ignorant of the actual context as to be more or less meaningless.

And I think you're grasping for straws here. The above is simply how labor law works in our country. You do not have the right to expect or demand payment for work that was done voluntarily and without an employment contract.

 

I honestly can't decide if your apparent inability to understand this most basic reality is due to stupidity or an intent to troll. Either way I'm through playing with you.

[gnarly1]

 

 

I think this easily qualifies as "not even wrong". It's a statement so ignorant of the actual context as to be more or less meaningless.

 

 

And I think you're grasping for straws here. The above is simply how labor law works in our country. You do not have the right to expect or demand payment for work that was done voluntarily and without an employment contract.

 

Correct. But you've failed the evidentiary test once again. Who in this community is demanding payment?

 

 

I honestly can't decide if your apparent inability to understand this most basic reality is due to stupidity or an intent to troll. Either way I'm through playing with you.

 

You're the one who seems to think that supporting evidence is something someone else comes up with to support your argument. Ironic given you seem to abhor 'spongers'.

 

Unfortunately, you have me at somewhat of a disadvantage. I am obliged to argue from a foundation of logic and rationality, with sufficient supporting evidence where appropriate. You, however, seem to have relieved yourself of any such burden.

[TheMastersSon]

Correct. But you've failed the evidentiary test once again. Who in this community is demanding payment?

I said expect or demand payment. Because you claimed mod authors have a right to expect payment. Please quote posts in context.

 

I believe it's also the legal reason Bethesda are requiring all code submissions to be rewritten from scratch. They have yet to explain (afaik) how minor mods that do little or nothing more than e.g. change a few game variables can be "rewritten" another way. In fact the same applies to any mod, regardless of length or complexity: only one best way exists to accomplish any given task in a mod or program. So Bethesda are requiring mod authors to replace all optimal code with something other than optimal? If not, how else are rewritten mods supposed to be distinguished from a few seconds spent with the ctrl-c and ctrl-v functions on a computer?

 

This entire paid mod scheme is half-baked imo, at least for previous titles. New modding arrangements should be limited to new product imo, and we'll see what happens when a company imposes new arrangements retroactively. Judging from the dozens of notices from mod authors I've read in recent months, announcing their permanent departure from Bethesda's modding community, and/or permanent takedowns of their mods etc, the news so far isn't great.

 

Also, note to Ethreon: if your undirected swipe was intended for this account, our posting history begs to differ with it and we don't appreciate being falsely maligned. If you or anyone in this thread wish to explain why mod authors have a right to expect payment for their work, done entirely voluntarily and without an employment contract, I'm all ears. Otherwise the unwillingness to grow up and admit when you're wrong in discussions is yours not ours.

 

Undirected swipes are among the most efficient forum disrupters known. Please address your comments especially negative ones.

Edited October 15, 2017 by TheMastersSon