New Nexus Mods design launched

Ethreon · November 1, 2017

In response to post #54877533. #54878113, #54879838 are all replies on the same post.

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Or they could use the resources spent on making some app on making a better website.

mejoff · November 1, 2017

In response to post #54799858. #54800528, #54805933, #54818428, #54818433, #54834513, #54841248, #54865923, #54869793, #54870233, #54872678, #54875248, #54875408 are all replies on the same post.

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vcgrant wrote: On first blush, I find it ironic, and a bit telling, that a web site that owes it's very existence to PC Games and its fans, optimize's it's web design for mobile platforms.

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Dark0ne wrote: Why is that ironic? A few people have commented on this and I've yet to have someone explain why it's silly to code a site with mobile optimisation in mind as part of the process.

18% of our traffic comes from mobile. A number that grows every single year as smartphone usage continues to rocket. It would be stupid to do a new design and not take that into account, just like it would be stupid to do a new design and not take in to account the 17% of people who browse the site using FireFox or the 5% who browse using Edge.

With your (and some other users') line of thinking, websites for console games should be most optimised for Televisions, because that's the platform on which you most play console games. Makes no sense, right? How you play your games has no relation to how you browse the internet and finding a happy medium for both desktop and mobile users, that can make both as happy as possible was, and still is, the most prudent course of action.

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Rigmor wrote: New site works great with the 0.0001% of "Brave" browser users :P

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vcgrant wrote: It is ironic because the functionality that can be had with a web page optimized for a PC processor and graphics is much greater than any mobile platform. Most mobile sites in look and usability are about where computer platforms were in the earliest days of the Net. Most apps are dumbed down to enable them to run on mobile devices and any 3D depth has been lost to flattening everything out to make it smaller and quicker to load.

Bottom line from my perspective, this is a PC site., make it look and play as one.

Quote
vcgrant wrote: Double Post

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Sonja wrote: While it's very nice that people on mobiles can more easily window shop for mods, when they come to actually download (and install if they're using NMM) them, they will be doing so on PC.
As I have stated, the new layout has really started to grow on me after my initial apprehension; there is much that I like. However, in terms of PC functionality, it does need some tweaking.

Moreover, even if it's steadily growing, 18% doesn't comprise a majority. I'm abysmal at mathematics, but even I can calculate that much. While far too many comments here have been little more than pitchfork level incoherent wailing, gnashing of teeth or just generally rude, there has still been a lot of constructive feedback, and I really hope you guys take it under consideration before releasing a final version. Aside from the obvious benefits to those (the majority) on desktop, this would probably reduce alienation and toxicity dramatically.

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fireundubh wrote: Nearly 20% is a huge number of users. If you think that's trivial, I'd hate to see how you run your business.

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Karolus_ wrote: To be honest, that means the other 80% are PC and Mac users basically(80%>20%). The users that go here with the phone I bet do it basically when they want to interact within the community, being pms, forum, or commenting mods at most. Every other part, from uploading mods to images is done with a PC/MAC, and offcourse the part where you download mods. Being that the main site functionality is (as of now?) uploading and downloading mods, there is not "much" point in giving priority to phones. Most probably the ideal solution would be a phone version with a focus on the social part of the site, with the tile based UI, and a main version focused on PC/MAC and usability on mod uploading/downloading/managing with a more "conventional" UI. At this point this is probably an echo in the wind, as the launch is inminent, but food for thought.

Quote
fireundubh wrote: Mod users and mod creators together eek out a minority share of any game's player base. Should Bethesda, RED, etc., stop supporting mod users and creators? Maybe developers should make installing and create mods harder or impossible, so they can spend more time on features the majority of their players want? What's the point in building and updating systems and tools for mods when most players don't use them and don't care that they exist?

This is rhetorical and intended to illustrate why nobody competent, given the availability of the necessary resources, designs for a single audience.

Quote
KasperSky44 wrote: When I'm on mobile I deliberately use desktop versions of websites wherever possible. The new layout is, functional, but looks terrible and clunky even on a 1080p screen. It seems foolish also to change something for 20% of a customer base, because chances are, it's going to alienate the actual majority. To be fair, I won't ever stop using nexus mods, but this push for everything to look "metro" makes everything look like a shitty gui in an early 2000's flash game.

Quote
vcgrant wrote: "This is rhetorical and intended to illustrate why nobody competent, given the availability of the necessary resources, designs for a single audience. "

I agree in with the sentiment. However, in practice the site is not designed to be 25% mobile friendly, vs. 75% PC friendly. To make it work for mobile platforms, you need to program the entire site entirely for mobile platforms. In essence, doing exactly what you are advocating against, i.e. only designing for a single audience.

Quote
fireundubh wrote: "To make it work for mobile platforms, you need to program the entire site entirely for mobile platforms."

Speaking as a web developer, that's not true at all. The new site could look exactly like the old site and still be responsive, and you'd have no complaints because your desktop experience would be unchanged. Your actual criticism is you just don't like the way the new site looks, and that's purely aesthetic and non-constructive feedback, as is "the old site is better," which it is objectively not and will thankfully never be seen again.

Instead of advocating against serving 18% of the site's audience, which is a nonstarter, why not share your ideas about how to improve the new experience? Now is the time to provide that kind of feedback. And, by the way, if you don't like larger UI elements and larger fonts for whatever reason, your browser provides a zoom feature, and if you're inclined, you can use the Stylish and Tampermonkey extensions to reshape and restyle the site to suit your particular preferences.

Quote
Dark0ne wrote: Let's break down some stats:

70% of visitors to Nexus Mods use Chrome
17% use FireFox
5% use Edge
3.5% use Opera

Because every browser renders HTML and CSS differently, when designing and making the site we need to take in to account how the site looks on all those browsers and ensure it works and looks right on all of them. Case in point, we made a change to the font weight recently which looked fine in Chrome, but definitely not as good in FireFox or Edge.

Because Chrome is the most popular browser by far, should we simply ignore how the site looks in the other browsers people might use and say "oh well, you should just use Chrome"?

Of course we shouldn't.

As such, we have to code with all the above browsers in mind.

This is exactly how it works with mobile too. In the same way that we code with FireFox, Edge and others in mind, we now also have to think with mobile in mind. It's not that mobile takes precedence, it's that it has to be considered, just like all the other options.

If you don't think we should code with mobile in mind you must also think we should not code with FireFox or Edge in mind, which is obviously silly. People need to change their thinking on this one and adapt to the changes in how internet content is being viewed -- like we have.

What a bunch of whinging f*#@s you are.

Waaahwaahwaah this site caters to me AND other people! Why can't it cater JUST FOR ME!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
SELLOUTS!

aryankrieger · November 1, 2017

In response to post #54877533. #54878113, #54879838, #54881788 are all replies on the same post.

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In the moment they use most of thier resources spent on making the website working for mobile platforms. When they let some of them create an app for the mobile user they have enough resources to made a good website even better.

mpjbay · November 1, 2017

Notes on the new site:

It is slow.

The UX has taken a step down from the old site. You have to go through more steps before accessing certain functionality such as mod categories.

In the file section. the color scheme need a lot of work.

There is a lot of used space at top of screen that confuses the user (UX issue).

I am all more moving forward but the new design seems like a step backward in UX.

lued123 · November 1, 2017

In response to post #54841233.

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I thought that Tannin had said they were gonna have a way to recreate your NMM installation in Vortex, and it wouldn't touch the existing NMM installation. It was a reply he made to someone who asked about it on a news post quite a while ago, but I remember it pretty clearly. That said, you're right about the first thing. There has been no indication of Vortex's release window.
Edit: I found it!
"We're currently working on a way to import mods&downloads from NMM (0.6) so you don't have to redownload what you already have. This will be a manual process and it won't change the NMM installation in any way so you are able to try out Vortex without risking your working NMM install.
Settings are too different, I don't think it would make sense to try and import those.
Profiles are also conceptually different so I doubt an import would work.
I hope to provide the same for importing from MO before we release publicly but no promises there."
--Tannin42 Edited November 1, 2017 by lued123

demonofsarila · November 2, 2017

In response to post #54799858. #54800528, #54805933, #54818428, #54818433, #54834513, #54841248, #54865923, #54869793, #54870233, #54872678, #54875248, #54875408, #54883598, #54893388, #54894983 are all replies on the same post.

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Quote
vcgrant wrote: On first blush, I find it ironic, and a bit telling, that a web site that owes it's very existence to PC Games and its fans, optimize's it's web design for mobile platforms.

Quote
Dark0ne wrote: Why is that ironic? A few people have commented on this and I've yet to have someone explain why it's silly to code a site with mobile optimisation in mind as part of the process.

18% of our traffic comes from mobile. A number that grows every single year as smartphone usage continues to rocket. It would be stupid to do a new design and not take that into account, just like it would be stupid to do a new design and not take in to account the 17% of people who browse the site using FireFox or the 5% who browse using Edge.

With your (and some other users') line of thinking, websites for console games should be most optimised for Televisions, because that's the platform on which you most play console games. Makes no sense, right? How you play your games has no relation to how you browse the internet and finding a happy medium for both desktop and mobile users, that can make both as happy as possible was, and still is, the most prudent course of action.

Quote
Rigmor wrote: New site works great with the 0.0001% of "Brave" browser users :P

Quote
vcgrant wrote: It is ironic because the functionality that can be had with a web page optimized for a PC processor and graphics is much greater than any mobile platform. Most mobile sites in look and usability are about where computer platforms were in the earliest days of the Net. Most apps are dumbed down to enable them to run on mobile devices and any 3D depth has been lost to flattening everything out to make it smaller and quicker to load.

Bottom line from my perspective, this is a PC site., make it look and play as one.

Quote
vcgrant wrote: Double Post

Quote
Sonja wrote: While it's very nice that people on mobiles can more easily window shop for mods, when they come to actually download (and install if they're using NMM) them, they will be doing so on PC.
As I have stated, the new layout has really started to grow on me after my initial apprehension; there is much that I like. However, in terms of PC functionality, it does need some tweaking.

Moreover, even if it's steadily growing, 18% doesn't comprise a majority. I'm abysmal at mathematics, but even I can calculate that much. While far too many comments here have been little more than pitchfork level incoherent wailing, gnashing of teeth or just generally rude, there has still been a lot of constructive feedback, and I really hope you guys take it under consideration before releasing a final version. Aside from the obvious benefits to those (the majority) on desktop, this would probably reduce alienation and toxicity dramatically.

Quote
fireundubh wrote: Nearly 20% is a huge number of users. If you think that's trivial, I'd hate to see how you run your business.

Quote
Karolus_ wrote: To be honest, that means the other 80% are PC and Mac users basically(80%>20%). The users that go here with the phone I bet do it basically when they want to interact within the community, being pms, forum, or commenting mods at most. Every other part, from uploading mods to images is done with a PC/MAC, and offcourse the part where you download mods. Being that the main site functionality is (as of now?) uploading and downloading mods, there is not "much" point in giving priority to phones. Most probably the ideal solution would be a phone version with a focus on the social part of the site, with the tile based UI, and a main version focused on PC/MAC and usability on mod uploading/downloading/managing with a more "conventional" UI. At this point this is probably an echo in the wind, as the launch is inminent, but food for thought.

Quote
fireundubh wrote: Mod users and mod creators together eek out a minority share of any game's player base. Should Bethesda, RED, etc., stop supporting mod users and creators? Maybe developers should make installing and create mods harder or impossible, so they can spend more time on features the majority of their players want? What's the point in building and updating systems and tools for mods when most players don't use them and don't care that they exist?

This is rhetorical and intended to illustrate why nobody competent, given the availability of the necessary resources, designs for a single audience.

Quote
KasperSky44 wrote: When I'm on mobile I deliberately use desktop versions of websites wherever possible. The new layout is, functional, but looks terrible and clunky even on a 1080p screen. It seems foolish also to change something for 20% of a customer base, because chances are, it's going to alienate the actual majority. To be fair, I won't ever stop using nexus mods, but this push for everything to look "metro" makes everything look like a shitty gui in an early 2000's flash game.

Quote
vcgrant wrote: "This is rhetorical and intended to illustrate why nobody competent, given the availability of the necessary resources, designs for a single audience. "

I agree in with the sentiment. However, in practice the site is not designed to be 25% mobile friendly, vs. 75% PC friendly. To make it work for mobile platforms, you need to program the entire site entirely for mobile platforms. In essence, doing exactly what you are advocating against, i.e. only designing for a single audience.

Quote
fireundubh wrote: "To make it work for mobile platforms, you need to program the entire site entirely for mobile platforms."

Speaking as a web developer, that's not true at all. The new site could look exactly like the old site and still be responsive, and you'd have no complaints because your desktop experience would be unchanged. Your actual criticism is you just don't like the way the new site looks, and that's purely aesthetic and non-constructive feedback, as is "the old site is better," which it is objectively not and will thankfully never be seen again.

Instead of advocating against serving 18% of the site's audience, which is a nonstarter, why not share your ideas about how to improve the new experience? Now is the time to provide that kind of feedback. And, by the way, if you don't like larger UI elements and larger fonts for whatever reason, your browser provides a zoom feature, and if you're inclined, you can use the Stylish and Tampermonkey extensions to reshape and restyle the site to suit your particular preferences.

Quote
Dark0ne wrote: Let's break down some stats:

70% of visitors to Nexus Mods use Chrome
17% use FireFox
5% use Edge
3.5% use Opera

Because every browser renders HTML and CSS differently, when designing and making the site we need to take in to account how the site looks on all those browsers and ensure it works and looks right on all of them. Case in point, we made a change to the font weight recently which looked fine in Chrome, but definitely not as good in FireFox or Edge.

Because Chrome is the most popular browser by far, should we simply ignore how the site looks in the other browsers people might use and say "oh well, you should just use Chrome"?

Of course we shouldn't.

As such, we have to code with all the above browsers in mind.

This is exactly how it works with mobile too. In the same way that we code with FireFox, Edge and others in mind, we now also have to think with mobile in mind. It's not that mobile takes precedence, it's that it has to be considered, just like all the other options.

If you don't think we should code with mobile in mind you must also think we should not code with FireFox or Edge in mind, which is obviously silly. People need to change their thinking on this one and adapt to the changes in how internet content is being viewed -- like we have.

Quote
mejoff wrote: What a bunch of whinging f*#@s you are.

Waaahwaahwaah this site caters to me AND other people! Why can't it cater JUST FOR ME!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
SELLOUTS!

Quote
fireundubh wrote: You want irony? A community that loves to change things has members who hate when things change.

Quote
calscks wrote: Speaking as a software engineer, a few crowds in nexusmods baffled me as well in the view of the fact that not only they're resistance to change, they have some sort of grudges against mobile lol. I am appalled when people who just blatantly assume that we don't access nexusmods via mobile. Being mobile-friendly is a perk for a website, not a tradeoff LMAO. it's true when someone says there's a part of this community is basically a bunch on whiny and self-centred kids. i'm sorry but what @mejoff has said sums up you all.

It is a certain sort of irony, a site about mods for PC, meaning the users have and use PC, being totally re-made to work with phones. But there's multiple use cases for phones: looking up something about a mod on your phone while the game is running on your pc, browsing about mods on your phone at work and picking ones to download later when you get home, if you're a mod author posting replies to questions about your mod while you're waiting somewhere without your pc (though if you have brought your desktop PC to you doctor's waiting room, I want pictures), etc. I mean I keep my ipad nearby for fallout 4 because of the mobile app link thing.

That said I'm not a fan of the new UI. Though to be fair, the old one has major issues and I don't care for it either. The site has the mods, so I deal with the site UI long enough to get what I want and get back to the game, and I'm ok with this arrangement.

Though, vcgrant, you do realize just because a site is optimized for mobile devices, that doesn't really effect desktop performance, right? It doesn't mean catering the site to work only on phones, it means making sure the site isn't crap on phones. The site was already optimized for desktops, and will still be optimized for desktops too. Edited November 7, 2017 by demonofsarila

demonofsarila · November 2, 2017

Why is it called "mod details"? this keeps confusing my brain. That makes me think of the like the upload date. Why did it get renamed from "mod description"? That made a lot of sense. Edited November 2, 2017 by demonofsarila

fireundubh · November 2, 2017

In response to post #54799858. #54800528, #54805933, #54818428, #54818433, #54834513, #54841248, #54865923, #54869793, #54870233, #54872678, #54875248, #54875408, #54883598, #54892348 are all replies on the same post.

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Quote
vcgrant wrote: On first blush, I find it ironic, and a bit telling, that a web site that owes it's very existence to PC Games and its fans, optimize's it's web design for mobile platforms.

Quote
Dark0ne wrote: Why is that ironic? A few people have commented on this and I've yet to have someone explain why it's silly to code a site with mobile optimisation in mind as part of the process.

18% of our traffic comes from mobile. A number that grows every single year as smartphone usage continues to rocket. It would be stupid to do a new design and not take that into account, just like it would be stupid to do a new design and not take in to account the 17% of people who browse the site using FireFox or the 5% who browse using Edge.

With your (and some other users') line of thinking, websites for console games should be most optimised for Televisions, because that's the platform on which you most play console games. Makes no sense, right? How you play your games has no relation to how you browse the internet and finding a happy medium for both desktop and mobile users, that can make both as happy as possible was, and still is, the most prudent course of action.

Quote
Rigmor wrote: New site works great with the 0.0001% of "Brave" browser users :P

Quote
vcgrant wrote: It is ironic because the functionality that can be had with a web page optimized for a PC processor and graphics is much greater than any mobile platform. Most mobile sites in look and usability are about where computer platforms were in the earliest days of the Net. Most apps are dumbed down to enable them to run on mobile devices and any 3D depth has been lost to flattening everything out to make it smaller and quicker to load.

Bottom line from my perspective, this is a PC site., make it look and play as one.

Quote
vcgrant wrote: Double Post

Quote
Sonja wrote: While it's very nice that people on mobiles can more easily window shop for mods, when they come to actually download (and install if they're using NMM) them, they will be doing so on PC.
As I have stated, the new layout has really started to grow on me after my initial apprehension; there is much that I like. However, in terms of PC functionality, it does need some tweaking.

Moreover, even if it's steadily growing, 18% doesn't comprise a majority. I'm abysmal at mathematics, but even I can calculate that much. While far too many comments here have been little more than pitchfork level incoherent wailing, gnashing of teeth or just generally rude, there has still been a lot of constructive feedback, and I really hope you guys take it under consideration before releasing a final version. Aside from the obvious benefits to those (the majority) on desktop, this would probably reduce alienation and toxicity dramatically.

Quote
fireundubh wrote: Nearly 20% is a huge number of users. If you think that's trivial, I'd hate to see how you run your business.

Quote
Karolus_ wrote: To be honest, that means the other 80% are PC and Mac users basically(80%>20%). The users that go here with the phone I bet do it basically when they want to interact within the community, being pms, forum, or commenting mods at most. Every other part, from uploading mods to images is done with a PC/MAC, and offcourse the part where you download mods. Being that the main site functionality is (as of now?) uploading and downloading mods, there is not "much" point in giving priority to phones. Most probably the ideal solution would be a phone version with a focus on the social part of the site, with the tile based UI, and a main version focused on PC/MAC and usability on mod uploading/downloading/managing with a more "conventional" UI. At this point this is probably an echo in the wind, as the launch is inminent, but food for thought.

Quote
fireundubh wrote: Mod users and mod creators together eek out a minority share of any game's player base. Should Bethesda, RED, etc., stop supporting mod users and creators? Maybe developers should make installing and create mods harder or impossible, so they can spend more time on features the majority of their players want? What's the point in building and updating systems and tools for mods when most players don't use them and don't care that they exist?

This is rhetorical and intended to illustrate why nobody competent, given the availability of the necessary resources, designs for a single audience.

Quote
KasperSky44 wrote: When I'm on mobile I deliberately use desktop versions of websites wherever possible. The new layout is, functional, but looks terrible and clunky even on a 1080p screen. It seems foolish also to change something for 20% of a customer base, because chances are, it's going to alienate the actual majority. To be fair, I won't ever stop using nexus mods, but this push for everything to look "metro" makes everything look like a shitty gui in an early 2000's flash game.

Quote
vcgrant wrote: "This is rhetorical and intended to illustrate why nobody competent, given the availability of the necessary resources, designs for a single audience. "

I agree in with the sentiment. However, in practice the site is not designed to be 25% mobile friendly, vs. 75% PC friendly. To make it work for mobile platforms, you need to program the entire site entirely for mobile platforms. In essence, doing exactly what you are advocating against, i.e. only designing for a single audience.

Quote
fireundubh wrote: "To make it work for mobile platforms, you need to program the entire site entirely for mobile platforms."

Speaking as a web developer, that's not true at all. The new site could look exactly like the old site and still be responsive, and you'd have no complaints because your desktop experience would be unchanged. Your actual criticism is you just don't like the way the new site looks, and that's purely aesthetic and non-constructive feedback, as is "the old site is better," which it is objectively not and will thankfully never be seen again.

Instead of advocating against serving 18% of the site's audience, which is a nonstarter, why not share your ideas about how to improve the new experience? Now is the time to provide that kind of feedback. And, by the way, if you don't like larger UI elements and larger fonts for whatever reason, your browser provides a zoom feature, and if you're inclined, you can use the Stylish and Tampermonkey extensions to reshape and restyle the site to suit your particular preferences.

Quote
Dark0ne wrote: Let's break down some stats:

70% of visitors to Nexus Mods use Chrome
17% use FireFox
5% use Edge
3.5% use Opera

Because every browser renders HTML and CSS differently, when designing and making the site we need to take in to account how the site looks on all those browsers and ensure it works and looks right on all of them. Case in point, we made a change to the font weight recently which looked fine in Chrome, but definitely not as good in FireFox or Edge.

Because Chrome is the most popular browser by far, should we simply ignore how the site looks in the other browsers people might use and say "oh well, you should just use Chrome"?

Of course we shouldn't.

As such, we have to code with all the above browsers in mind.

This is exactly how it works with mobile too. In the same way that we code with FireFox, Edge and others in mind, we now also have to think with mobile in mind. It's not that mobile takes precedence, it's that it has to be considered, just like all the other options.

If you don't think we should code with mobile in mind you must also think we should not code with FireFox or Edge in mind, which is obviously silly. People need to change their thinking on this one and adapt to the changes in how internet content is being viewed -- like we have.

Quote
mejoff wrote: What a bunch of whinging f*#@s you are.

Waaahwaahwaah this site caters to me AND other people! Why can't it cater JUST FOR ME!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
SELLOUTS!

Quote
demonofsarila wrote: It is a certain sort of irony, a site about mods for PC, meaning the users have and use PC, being totally re-made to work with phones. But there's multiple use cases for phones: looking up something about a mod on your phone while the game is on your pc, browsing about mods on your phone at work and picking ones to download later when you get home, if you're a mod author posting replies to questions about your mod while you're waiting somewhere without your pc, etc. I mean I keep my ipad nearby for fallout 4 because of the mobile app link thing.

That said I'm not a fan of the new UI. Though to be fair, the old one has major issues and I don't know if I'd say I care for it either. The site has the mods, so I deal with the site UI long enough to get what I want and get back to the game, and I'm ok with this arrangement.

Though, vcgrant, you do realize just because a site is optimized for mobile devices, that doesn't really effect desktop performance, right? It doesn't mean catering the site to work only on phones, it means making sure the site isn't crap on phones. The site was already optimized for desktops, and will still be optimized for desktops too.

You want irony? A community that loves to change things has members who hate when things change.

fireundubh · November 2, 2017

In response to post #54892423.

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Because the description is now just one item among other details.

dirvish · November 2, 2017

Hey Robin and Company,

Thanks for all of this , all the time.

I have used and compared both new and old for several days now. Couple of inquirys... I do use a small Samsung tablet almost exclusively for the Web and for the Nexus including downloads. The old Web page let's me use the 2 finger touch zoom and zoom out functions so well. This new design does not. Tell me you can implement touchscreen control please. The second question is can you implement a simple text search function onto the mod page comments section? Instead of having to go to the forum thread to use that search function. Aesthetic subjects: The placement of statistics everywhere...... I just got home from work to watch the game, play the game and surf the Nexus. Whats with all the counters in everybodys face? Whats with all the busy busy busy? Erroneus for regular users and downloaders. The counters are in two different places on a mod page. Removing the counter statistics from right below the mod title would probably go a long way to relax this a little bit. It is way too much like being on the clock. The Nexus IS the premiere site to view some of the world's most creative and emboldened modders. Its a gallery.... Please relax the design a little bit. Nobody would be here if not for you and all the modders. Have Fun, be careful out there everybody.

Edit: Why can't I report that ... ahem... mejoff person or facsimile of person mejoff, on the new or old site? Jerk!

Edited November 2, 2017 by dirvish

New Nexus Mods design launched

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