Managing the Load Order...

[piperman123]

 

 

 

 

• None necessary functionality should not be a priority for alpha software. And changing the install load order more than vortex already does is exactly that, unnecessary.
• I'm surprised some of the community is so adamant about not changing how they do things, I thought that was exactly what modders were about??

 

What you consider necessary and what others consider necessary are not necessarily the same thing.

 

For instance, I consider changing the way we manage our load order to be unnecessary. I find it interesting how you presume to declare whether or not a certain feature is necessary, and then sarcastically remark about people complaining about a change they clearly don't consider necessary.

 

There are a lot of changes that this software needs in order for me to use it. The ability to sort my load order by dragging individual mods where they should be, as we've been able to do for years in NMM and MO, is one of those changes. I'd consider it necessary.

 

 

Ok, maybe I was unclear. By necessary I meant something that is necessary to provided the functionality that is required to get things working. You don't 'need' to be able to have multiple ways of doing the same thing. I already said I agree that it should probably be added later on. And you don't need to to add dependencies in loot, this has been mentioned a few times in the thread. You can use priorities, which does exactly as everyone is asking and doesn't take long to use at all. Everyone is just having a tiff because it's not drag and drop like they're used to.

 

I've noticed that Vortex doesn't deal with BSA's yet, which is at least somewhat of a problem. I guess this is the real reason people are complaining however, if Vortex takes MO's approach of providing the option of extracting all bsa's in the order they're loaded, this would show all conflicts and you'd then be able to use the conflict resolution it provides now for everything.

 

Or, and it sounds like this may be what they're planning, they can make Vortex capable of scanning bsa's and work much the same way, as long as it also warns about loose files being conflict winners with bsa contents regardless of ordering.

 

And lastly, I agree everyone has the right to their opinion and I'm sure someone will disagree with what I'm trying to class as necessary. Doens't mean they're right though, nor does it mean I am. But I'm sure you can see why a developer wouldn't add a new feature when the functionality is already there just implemented with a different (newer and arguably better) approach. If the points I mentioned above are implemented that will make the approach they're using now more user friendly and provide the same functionality, people will just need to learn to adapt slightly. So I'll concede that the functionality isn't all there yet, it would just be daft to re-implement old approaches and scrap the new stuff they've added and are hopefully still working on.

 

@ sopmac45

So you've figured it out then?

If you already have rules for a mod when you click the red bolt on another it'll show an "i" in a circle near it, that means that mod already has a rule for the mod your editing. If you add conflicting rules Vortex will tell you so. I got confused by that too at first, 'till I noticed that symbol and realized it was only on a mod I had just edited. Also, hover over that symbol and I think it tells you.

 

 

 

 

 

Figured out to a certain point to be honest not completely .... I do admit that I hate the fact that I can fix it by trial and error till I got not more conflicting errors and that is not what I want .... I need to know HOW and WHY .... so I would know exactly what to do to fix any conflict between my mods ... the part I learned was explained by a nice guy in this thread; basically when you click on a mod, let' say : SMIM .. to resolve conflicts with one more ( let's get a simple and easy sample ), if you choose "load before" means that SMIM will load before the other showing and the latter will take precedent in the load order.

 

In the beginning, I was confused, I thought that the mod beside that small window where you either choose : load before, load after, etc, etc, etc, .... will be the one either : loading before, loading after, etc, etc, etc ..... but it's not ... is backward ... so, that part was explained as I said and now I do understand it. However, it is not explained anywhere and that bothers me. Why asking questions when we could have simple explanations added to Vortex that could speed up the process or learning it ?

 

Now, again, I do admit that I when one mod is conflicting with another 6, things start to get interesting. At that moment, I do not know exactly what to do and why I am doing what I do. Sorry man, some people may have figured out but not me yet. Again, I am not that skilled for things like this. I was able to fix all conflicts in my Skyrim game but I do not know my load order as I should and I do not like that. I need to know why I placed this mod before and why the other after. I understand that one should take precedent but that is not what I meant, is the fact that dealing with a lot of dependencies, is not ( at least for me ) that easy.

 

The funny part is that I am able to create custom mods, I am able to work with SSEEdit, I was able to resolve conflicts before using this tool, patches and stuff but this particular part, is the stone in my freaking shoe !

 

 

Ok, so... When your resolving conflicts and you select a mod, the load after thing is in regards to that mod, so it makes sense that they would mean load after the mod selected. This is more obvious when the mod you're resolving has multiple conflicts to be fair. It's hard to explain without having it in front of you, so go check out gophers videos. They'll probably help you a lot actually.

 

Understanding why something should load after something else should be pretty obvious if you're so familiar with SSEedit and whatnot but I get sometimes something just doesn't click. Anything that has the same files will conflict, everything you want in your game needs to load last/win the conflict basically. Same as with your normal plugin load order essentially. Just with regards to the contents of the mods (textures and meshes being the usual culprits). This happens with bsa's automatically as the game loads them in relation to their esp which usually works. Loose files work differently, they always win over bsas and load in whatever order they were installed in (or whatever order you've configured through the conflicts and priorities) i.e. 'bsa's<loose files in mods early in Install order<loose files late in Install order'.

 

As for documentation, this is because so much is still being added and it's only in alpha. They're expecting the people who are trialing the software to be able to work most of it out. It's pretty straightforward compared to most alpha software, go try zEdit and you'll see what I mean but that. Basically why right up a load of documentation when it's just going to change and they are still trying to actually finish the software itself? I know, it would still be helpful... and yeah, should still be provided in some degree. It's fairly amateurish to send people over to Gopher and say watch his videos instead but... excusable, arguably, for early alpha 'sort of freeware'. It's better than a lot provide. And obviously Gopher does cover basically everything and is pretty easy to follow, just that it's video instead of actual documentation. Links on Vortex's mod page.

 

I hope all that makes sense and is easy enough to follow, explaining things ain't really my forte. Let me know if your still struggling with anything, on here or pm me. I'm happy to help.

[UrizenDe]

 

 

And with Vortex, these users are losing the option of that "making necessary corrections" step in an easy and familiar manner, instead being forced to take that extra step that I'd bet actual money the vast majority of users have never bothered doing before. On top of all this, I've yet to see an actual valid reason as to why this change has been made other than "well it's better to do it this way".

Rule/Priority based sorting has clear advantages, in that you usually make the edit once and it sticks. I have several mods which are essential to my gaming experience. These have to be placed in specific fashion. Rules help with that.

 

 

So does classic load order.

 

 

Note to self: Don´t post after midnight. And don´t get me wet.

 

To clarify: Rule based sorting has advantages when you switch mods very often around your core mods. You only sort these once and then let the rule handle it. For example loot likes to sort this way: Realistic Water Two -> Warzones -> LAL. Realistic Water Two needs to load last, or else any mod editing a cell containing water breaks it. I want Warzones to load before RWT but after LAL. I would set a priority/rule for these and when I switch mods, I don´t have to worry about their placements any longer ( these 3 are pretty much mandatory for me ).

[markdf]

Vortex keeps saying "Mod rules contain cycles". But when I click "More", the cycle only contains one esp file. Am I missing something?

 

NVM, I was mixing up plugin rules with mod rules. :pinch:

[Antrix]

Vortex + Wrye Bash = No problems with manual mods sorting. In the beginning I was a little disappointed with such an uncomfortable and unusual type of sorting... But after I figured out how it works, I realized that if you add Wrye Bash to Vortex, it will be work awesome with integrated dependency system.

[EnemYsDoll]

FO3Edit says to me that there is a load order conflict. But I cannot change the load order in Vortex, so that FO3Edit will notice it. This dependencies system is not working for FO3Edit.

 

How can I solve this obvious problem?: [00:01] Background Loader: Fatal: <Exception: "Project Beauty.esm" requires master "Fallout3.esm" to be loaded before it.> [00:02] Background Loader: finished

Edited March 30, 2018 by EnemYsDoll

[SkunkMonkey]

Use priorities to ensure sort order.

For the specific issue you are having: Fallout3.esm has a global priority of -127. (https://loot.github.io/docs/contributing/Global-Priorities.html) This makes sure it's always first. If you set the global priority of Project Beauty.esm to -70, it should sort properly.

 

Also, it's possible that FO3Edit isn't looking in the right place for the plugins.txt file. I don't have FO3 installed so I can't check for you.

[pStyl3]

From this point onwards it's probably for the best to not advise people to use LOOT's priority number system. It is soon going to be replaced with the new "Groups" feature. And while I don't know for sure what Tannin will be making from this, I know that he already knows about this change coming up.

[Oleai]

"Purge Mods" is basicly a "break your install" button with no 'Are you sure?' prompt. So a single misclick created a world of hassle for me. Really bad choice.

[AugustaCalidia]

"Purge Mods" is basicly a "break your install" button with no 'Are you sure?' prompt. So a single misclick created a world of hassle for me. Really bad choice.

After clicking "Purge Mods," did you click "Deploy Mods" to recover your hard links?

[rmm200]

 

"Purge Mods" is basicly a "break your install" button with no 'Are you sure?' prompt. So a single misclick created a world of hassle for me. Really bad choice.

After clicking "Purge Mods," did you click "Deploy Mods" to recover your hard links?

 

 

My process, which has always worked for me, is to use "Purge Mods" to remove the hard links, then go to my game directory and make sure everything is truly gone. Then go back and "Deploy Mods". I have no idea what problem you have with it. It is not a "Halt and Catch Fire" command.

Edited April 15, 2018 by rmm200