Managing the Load Order...

[FireStar999]

Not to early to judge the missing load order feature though since, alpha or not, Tannin says he won't put it in.

 

Its fine by me tho, I will just sit back and pop a beer while I watch the new mod manager fail in an entertaining way because of the stubbornness of its developers.

 

Maybe its perfect for them but at this point I would say its definitely not for at least 75% of the people that got to use it and that's, well...

 

Glad I can stick with Nexus Mod Manager still, at least they haven't killed that yet.

 

Also Tannin working for Nexus team now doesn't get rid of the chances of some one else will start working on an actually good mod manager that eventually replaces NMM/MO/Vortex, and that actually listens to the community, in fact, who knows, Vortex might just be be the inspiration that some one out there needs to start making one..

Edited February 13, 2018 by FireStar999

[FireStar999]

 

 

 

 

Thats why I keep a category at the bottom called Overrides, excuse me but I just find it plain stupid that Vortex decides to make a mess especially with my settlement workshop mods, why would they need to be scrambled along other plug ins? they're just additions to the workshop menu, they don't need to ''override'' anything yet loot thinks they do for some reason and decides to place them wherever it wants to, and I know I can set manual rules so those plugins load before another plugin but that again is time consuming especially when you don't have any visual guidance of where your plugins actually are, you just get a scrambled list with a bunch of weird esp names and a headache.

Again im not against the current system but I really really think we NEED an option to opt out of it, and sort plug ins manually, I wouldn't know why is it so hard to make because I don't know about software engineering but I mean come on, every single mod loader/ manager out there has the option to manually set priorities, or at the very least give us a better UI that actually displays the current load order and not just the scrambled list having to rely on another completely separate menu to see the special rules that you added for your 255 plug ins.

 

Let me just say this one more time for you because you didn't seem to understand it the first time. There literally is no purpose to categorizing your load order. It does nothing. There isn't any reason to even need it categorized either. Why you even started doing that to begin with makes no sense. You should probably read the other thread in feedback. Tannin already went over this. But I have a feeling you are not going to like what he says. From his perspective you are doing your load order wrong if you are categorizing it. However, if someoen wants to make an extension to do what you want it to do, he is fine with that, but he is not going to include this feature himself.

 

As for settign rules. Again it's not time consuming. There is literalyl a drag and drop function. Yuo can grab one mod and drag and drop it under another mod and it will ask you the type of rule you want to create. Not I have not used it myself but that is what I have heard from reading these threads. But even without that, it really doesn't take that much time regardless. We are talking maybe a couple extra seconds at most. However, consdiering the rules are saved for next time it ends up saving you more time in the long run. But again, I suggest you go read the feedback forum, Tannin has answers all you questions there, though again, it's not going to be what you want to hear.

 

If you really need the old system then just wait for someone to make a plugin because Tannin is not going to include this in Vortex himself. Vortex already has all the tools you need to be able to sort your load order. He sees no reason to add another espeically since no one has been able to actually give any good reason to include it. It's most people just being used to the old way, not that the old way is any easier. But hey, if you think you can convince him, why not go over to the other thread and offer up your opinion since it doesn't seem he is repsonding to this thread. Though, again, I do suggest you read his previous posts first.

 

 

So you're saying Tannin has to be my boss now? or the owner of my load order? you mean if Tannin says Hey, you can't have your First Person officer BOS color fix because it needs to be loaded before hundreds of mods otherwise it will break s*** (yeah, right, a texture swap for an armor will break hell lose) I have to take his word for it? even though my game isn't working as I intend to / it breaks my immersion because the fix for the armor is not working? because of a dumb rule that says its for the best? what are the odds, something will break if I load it in almost at the bottom so it can properly override any mods conflicting if its just a damn texture swap? that's the example i'm trying to give here, LOOT sorting is dumb, there are mods on the nexus that strictly instruct you to load them fairly at the bottom of the load order, if not at the very, yet, LOOT decides to ignore that for ''reasons'', sure, categorizing is NOT perfect and is NOT the correct way to handle load orders but IMHO there's just no real way to do it, there will ALWAYS be a conflict because there is a ridiculous amount of possible mod combinations so there just CAN'T be a so called ''master list'' to just spit the world's best load order for you, it just cant exist, LOOT breaks my load order EVEN BEYOND its current broken state as broken as it can be, it works BETTER if I sort it by myself, reading thorugh every mod carefully and sometimes even using FO4Edit to double check on the records the esp contains to determine a good place for each plug in, with a FRIENDLY USER INTERFACE that lets me easily drag and drop any plug-ins I want and showing me where they actually are, (which is important, and very, because otherwise its very confusing)*ahem* unlike Vortex, which, for some dumb reason, won't show the actual load order, instead it will stick to LOOT's load order in display and has another built in menu to set up ''manual rules'' for specific plug-ins, which, i repeat, even though I instructed the program to load it ''before a certain plug in'' the rule gets created but the plug in is still listed in the same slot as it was before adding said rule, and that makes things confusing, not practical, dumb and very very painful to use with large load orders.

 

So its not that '' I don't like what Tannin has to say'' its just Vortex plain and simple wont cut it for me, nor for other users, and again im just trying to give some feedback here, im not the only one who doesnt love the new system and I think ya'llready noticed, the purpose of the Alpha was to give feedback, rite? I don't get why I suddenly get treated as if I was some kind of idiot for it, getting the same message over and over again, ''There is manual ordering, you just can't see it cause youre dumb'' ''its literally there, but you don't know how to use it'' I KNOW it's ''there'' I just don't like the way its implemented because it sucks , honestly, and thats what im trying to tell the devs, me and a bunch of people who have tried it, I thought they wanted people to use their software (even though I know they're doing it for free and theres no real profit to it since it has no money making ads on it, at least that ive noticed) for some odd reason , but at this point I guess they're just developing for themselves and a small portion of the community I guess? also whats the point of asking for feedback if Tannin is not going to hear out the community for what they want to see changed? I don't get it, why not just keep developing without asking for opinions, or did he only want for us to comment on how pretty the new UI looks? yeah.. well.. I don't know, but I'd rather stick with the ugly nexus instead of using.......this, whatever it is.

 

He's all like yeah throw in your opinions , suggestions and what not, but then he ditches the most suggested thing of all, which is adding a god damned and simple drag and drop function, thing he has done before with MO so he has no excuse not to implement it other than plain pride, especially when he says ''It's most people just being used to the old way'' then what is that supposed to mean? screw em because I like the new way and I can't give enough damns if the majority doesn't like it? that does mean he's developing for himself and not for ''the community'' otherwise he would listen to what the community wants, and honestly I don't blame him for not doing it, we're not paying him to do so, but then again, why ask for damn feedback then, if he's not going to listen.

Edited February 13, 2018 by FireStar999

[Oblitus]

Uhh no. That is a very dishonest way to describe it. It can do most everything a previous mod manager could do (Certainly more the NMM), and there is plenty of stuff still in development that is on the table.

Like what? Bells and whistles aside, there is nothing Vortex can do while NMM can't. Even hardlink deployment is not really a feature, since it does not allow to set priorities per-file, while with NMM you can do it by proper installation order, so it is done differently, not exactly better. And even bells and whistles are bad things for me - I want a mod manager to manage mods, not to ring and hoot.

 

If you don't know how a beta works, then I suggest you don't get involved because all you will do is complain.

First, it is called "feedback." It is not supposed to be only positive. Second, "beta" is a feature-full release which needs testing and polishing. But Vortex is not beta, it is alpha, which means it is supposed to be barebone concept. And this is exactly the time to judge the development direction. And now the direction is "for stupid people, who should not have fork because they will poke own eye with it, so they would only get stuff which should be eaten with bare hands."

[HardwareSc8]

 

unlike Vortex, which, for some dumb reason, won't show the actual load order

 

 

Okay, emotions aside, this is a problem that can be dealt with. Somewhere in your UI, you've got a setting that got messed up, or something. Mine shows my plugins in their actual load order, exactly like MO2. Now, I will admit that I've clicked around on just about everything, so I might have changed something from the default; I don't remember...

 

The first step to try is to make sure that the Mod Index column is visible on the Plugins tab. Then, do an ascending sort by Mod Index. The order will then be the actual load order that the game's engine is going to use.

[JimmyRJump]

Something not yet talked about, in respect to manually sorting plug-ins in Vortex, is the fact that, since the introduction of the Creation Club, both SSE and FO4 have a .ccc file that hard-codes plug-ins or somesuch, which makes it impossible to manually sort plug-ins in Nexus Mod Manager (using v0.63.19).

 

LOOT (using v12.3) however doesn't care much and sorts plug-ins like before and the changes are carried over to NMM.

 

Will Vortex circumvent this hard-coding of plugs thing for the aformentioned games?

[HeyYou]

Something not yet talked about, in respect to manually sorting plug-ins in Vortex, is the fact that, since the introduction of the Creation Club, both SSE and FO4 have a .ccc file that hard-codes plug-ins or somesuch, which makes it impossible to manually sort plug-ins in Nexus Mod Manager (using v0.63.19).

 

LOOT (using v12.3) however doesn't care much and sorts plug-ins like before and the changes are carried over to NMM.

 

Will Vortex circumvent this hard-coding of plugs thing for the aformentioned games?

So far, I think CC content has just been pretty much .esl files, which by the way they work, are load order independent. So, the hard-coding of load order shouldn't matter for those. When CC actually starts coming out with 'real' mods...... then it may become more of an issue. (I think.)

[JimmyRJump]

 

Something not yet talked about, in respect to manually sorting plug-ins in Vortex, is the fact that, since the introduction of the Creation Club, both SSE and FO4 have a .ccc file that hard-codes plug-ins or somesuch, which makes it impossible to manually sort plug-ins in Nexus Mod Manager (using v0.63.19).

 

LOOT (using v12.3) however doesn't care much and sorts plug-ins like before and the changes are carried over to NMM.

 

Will Vortex circumvent this hard-coding of plugs thing for the aformentioned games?

So far, I think CC content has just been pretty much .esl files, which by the way they work, are load order independent. So, the hard-coding of load order shouldn't matter for those. When CC actually starts coming out with 'real' mods...... then it may become more of an issue. (I think.)

 

Read again what I wrote please: it's not about esl files, it's about Bethesda having hard-coded mods into a newly added .ccc file (for SSE and FO4) that keeps you from manually sorting plug-ins in NMM. As a consequence, my question was and is if this inability to sort plug-ins will also be the case in Vortex.

[kanisiba]

Frankly speaking, I think this Alpha is meaningless. Many people gave feedback about manual sorting, but Tannin ignored all. This is not alpha test, just LOOT sorting cult.

[Deleted3897072User]

Frankly speaking, I think this Alpha is meaningless. Many people gave feedback about manual sorting, but Tannin ignored all. This is not alpha test, just LOOT sorting cult.

Well, to be fair, at least we have the alpha so we can see how it works and start planning how to mod it to do what we want ... :D

[Deleted3897072User]

 

 

Something not yet talked about, in respect to manually sorting plug-ins in Vortex, is the fact that, since the introduction of the Creation Club, both SSE and FO4 have a .ccc file that hard-codes plug-ins or somesuch, which makes it impossible to manually sort plug-ins in Nexus Mod Manager (using v0.63.19).

 

LOOT (using v12.3) however doesn't care much and sorts plug-ins like before and the changes are carried over to NMM.

 

Will Vortex circumvent this hard-coding of plugs thing for the aformentioned games?

So far, I think CC content has just been pretty much .esl files, which by the way they work, are load order independent. So, the hard-coding of load order shouldn't matter for those. When CC actually starts coming out with 'real' mods...... then it may become more of an issue. (I think.)

 

Read again what I wrote please: it's not about esl files, it's about Bethesda having hard-coded mods into a newly added .ccc file (for SSE and FO4) that keeps you from manually sorting plug-ins in NMM. As a consequence, my question was and is if this inability to sort plug-ins will also be the case in Vortex.

 

I can't speak for Vortex, but there is just one .esm in the current version of the CCC file. I think the way CC works is that the game will load that after the DLCs and before any mod esm's. If you wanted Vortex to be able to alter that, it would presumably have to edit the .ccc file which would be technically easy (it's just a text file - you can even open it in notepad - so editing it would just be like editing plugins.txt) but the problem is that your load order would break whenever Bethesda updated the file themselves and you wouldn't necessarily know it had happened. Is that what you were thinking about?