Trump

[HeyYou]

 

What if the situation were reversed? What if America were a dirt poor nation, with a largely illiterate population scratching out a meager living, and dreaming of a better life in wealthy Central American countries? Do you think the citizens of those wealthy Central American countries would welcome poor American migrants claiming refugee status, or would they be fearful of seeing their nations overwhelmed by foreign peoples speaking foreign languages, fearful of seeing their culture usurped, fearful of surrendering the heritage they had hoped to bequeath their children?

 

You're right. Deny other human beings their humanity, simply because they are different. It's okay to let them die on our doorstep, they're different. It's okay to return them to be killed by their government, they're different. It's okay to summarily put them in prison without trial, they're different. It's okay to take their children from them, they're different.

 

Sounds eerily familiar. It's okay to put them in prison camps, they're different. It's okay to take their property, they're different. It's okay to kill them, they're different.

 

So please tell me, how is what you are saying we are doing, any different from what their own government is doing? Do you think being held in a federal facility is all fun and games? Should we just let in anyone that wants to come here, without finding out WHY they are coming here? Do you think it would be wise to just open our borders to anyone??

 

Most of those 'refugees' are passing thru several other countries on their way here. Why don't they stay in one of THOSE countries? They are better than what they left behind. (supposedly) Maybe they wanna come here because of all the free handouts the democrats think we should give them...... Why work hard for a living, and barely make it, when you can come here, and get free housing, free food, free health care, and even some spending money?? A standard of living FAR superior to what they left behind, and all for free. What's not to like??? And you wonder why we are some 22 TRILLION dollars in debt?? I don't...... Those entitlements make up better than 25% of the TOTAL federal budget.

 

Have a look at the chart Here. Please note the SPIKE in immigration starting in about 1975...... Now, how long do you think current policy is sustainable? Shouldn't america before for americans FIRST??? Shouldn't we address our own issues with homeless, and lack of affordable healthcare for our citizens FIRST? Why should we put these johnny-come-latelys ahead of citizens?

[Deleted67195711User]

 

 

What if the situation were reversed? What if America were a dirt poor nation, with a largely illiterate population scratching out a meager living, and dreaming of a better life in wealthy Central American countries? Do you think the citizens of those wealthy Central American countries would welcome poor American migrants claiming refugee status, or would they be fearful of seeing their nations overwhelmed by foreign peoples speaking foreign languages, fearful of seeing their culture usurped, fearful of surrendering the heritage they had hoped to bequeath their children?

 

You're right. Deny other human beings their humanity, simply because they are different. It's okay to let them die on our doorstep, they're different. It's okay to return them to be killed by their government, they're different. It's okay to summarily put them in prison without trial, they're different. It's okay to take their children from them, they're different.

 

Sounds eerily familiar. It's okay to put them in prison camps, they're different. It's okay to take their property, they're different. It's okay to kill them, they're different.

 

So please tell me, how is what you are saying we are doing, any different from what their own government is doing? Do you think being held in a federal facility is all fun and games? Should we just let in anyone that wants to come here, without finding out WHY they are coming here? Do you think it would be wise to just open our borders to anyone??

 

Most of those 'refugees' are passing thru several other countries on their way here. Why don't they stay in one of THOSE countries? They are better than what they left behind. (supposedly) Maybe they wanna come here because of all the free handouts the democrats think we should give them...... Why work hard for a living, and barely make it, when you can come here, and get free housing, free food, free health care, and even some spending money?? A standard of living FAR superior to what they left behind, and all for free. What's not to like??? And you wonder why we are some 22 TRILLION dollars in debt?? I don't...... Those entitlements make up better than 25% of the TOTAL federal budget.

 

Have a look at the chart Here. Please note the SPIKE in immigration starting in about 1975...... Now, how long do you think current policy is sustainable? Shouldn't america before for americans FIRST??? Shouldn't we address our own issues with homeless, and lack of affordable healthcare for our citizens FIRST? Why should we put these johnny-come-latelys ahead of citizens?

 

 

Let's see. What happened in the early 1970s. Oh, I remember, Tricky Dick declared a "War on Drugs" and sent armed troops into Central and South America. And that invasion from the north sparked 'tribal' infighting to keep control of the drug manufacturing sources. Imagine that, The United States precipitated the crisis that started the refugees fleeing north. And we have continued pumping money and equipment into Central and Southern America for the last forty five years. Maybe, just maybe now, the United States has a responsibility to those who were, and are, directly impacted by the actions of the United States. Or are you saying the United States should write off the victims of their war on drugs as collateral damage and pretend they don't exist?

 

In spite of your hyperbole, nobody is putting the refugees above American citizens. And according to the commitments the United States made in 1954. we are not supposed to treat refugees as subhuman either. But what Trump is doing with his policies is treating refugees as subhumans who can be tortured, imprisoned, starved and denied their basic human rights just for seeking asylum. And what you are doing by your comments justifying Trump's mistreatment of refugees is to further dehumanize the victims of a true human tragedy. And that is abhorrent. Quite frankly, I would rather befriend a thousand refugees than one United States citizen who would participate in the deliberate dehumanization of even one other human being, especially when their reason is "they're different, they're not like us".

 

But alas, that "they're different, they're not like us" logic is quite popular. It put into power the greatest Fascist regime ever to exist. And the way things are progressing, Trump and his sycophant ideologues might just succeed in creating another.

 

And with that, I am done with this discussion. I am out of pearls for casting.

[HeyYou]

 

 

 

What if the situation were reversed? What if America were a dirt poor nation, with a largely illiterate population scratching out a meager living, and dreaming of a better life in wealthy Central American countries? Do you think the citizens of those wealthy Central American countries would welcome poor American migrants claiming refugee status, or would they be fearful of seeing their nations overwhelmed by foreign peoples speaking foreign languages, fearful of seeing their culture usurped, fearful of surrendering the heritage they had hoped to bequeath their children?

 

You're right. Deny other human beings their humanity, simply because they are different. It's okay to let them die on our doorstep, they're different. It's okay to return them to be killed by their government, they're different. It's okay to summarily put them in prison without trial, they're different. It's okay to take their children from them, they're different.

 

Sounds eerily familiar. It's okay to put them in prison camps, they're different. It's okay to take their property, they're different. It's okay to kill them, they're different.

 

So please tell me, how is what you are saying we are doing, any different from what their own government is doing? Do you think being held in a federal facility is all fun and games? Should we just let in anyone that wants to come here, without finding out WHY they are coming here? Do you think it would be wise to just open our borders to anyone??

 

Most of those 'refugees' are passing thru several other countries on their way here. Why don't they stay in one of THOSE countries? They are better than what they left behind. (supposedly) Maybe they wanna come here because of all the free handouts the democrats think we should give them...... Why work hard for a living, and barely make it, when you can come here, and get free housing, free food, free health care, and even some spending money?? A standard of living FAR superior to what they left behind, and all for free. What's not to like??? And you wonder why we are some 22 TRILLION dollars in debt?? I don't...... Those entitlements make up better than 25% of the TOTAL federal budget.

 

Have a look at the chart Here. Please note the SPIKE in immigration starting in about 1975...... Now, how long do you think current policy is sustainable? Shouldn't america before for americans FIRST??? Shouldn't we address our own issues with homeless, and lack of affordable healthcare for our citizens FIRST? Why should we put these johnny-come-latelys ahead of citizens?

 

 

Let's see. What happened in the early 1970s. Oh, I remember, Tricky Dick declared a "War on Drugs" and sent armed troops into Central and South America. And that invasion from the north sparked 'tribal' infighting to keep control of the drug manufacturing sources. Imagine that, The United States precipitated the crisis that started the refugees fleeing north. And we have continued pumping money and equipment into Central and Southern America for the last forty five years. Maybe, just maybe now, the United States has a responsibility to those who were, and are, directly impacted by the actions of the United States. Or are you saying the United States should write off the victims of their war on drugs as collateral damage and pretend they don't exist?

 

In spite of your hyperbole, nobody is putting the refugees above American citizens. And according to the commitments the United States made in 1954. we are not supposed to treat refugees as subhuman either. But what Trump is doing with his policies is treating refugees as subhumans who can be tortured, imprisoned, starved and denied their basic human rights just for seeking asylum. And what you are doing by your comments justifying Trump's mistreatment of refugees is to further dehumanize the victims of a true human tragedy. And that is abhorrent. Quite frankly, I would rather befriend a thousand refugees than one United States citizen who would participate in the deliberate dehumanization of even one other human being, especially when their reason is "they're different, they're not like us".

 

But alas, that "they're different, they're not like us" logic is quite popular. It put into power the greatest Fascist regime ever to exist. And the way things are progressing, Trump and his sycophant ideologues might just succeed in creating another.

 

And with that, I am done with this discussion. I am out of pearls for casting.

 

Leaving? Good. The veiled insults, (poorly, at that) and holier-than-thou attitude get old pretty quick.

 

I would also point out that the various countries we are getting 'refugees' from are not due to just the war on drugs. Those countries have issues all their own, that have been ongoing for decades. I would point out that the cartel wars in Mexico are far more violent than other contributors to our 'refugee crisis', yet most of them are NOT Mexicans. Would you care to explain that? Oh, that's right, you just drop your insults and run.

 

You also seem to assume a great deal about me.... Most of which is an invention of your own mind. Please point out where I have ever so much as implied the 'they are different' justification? I don't recall reading anything about the current admin applying that either......

 

I also suspect that you toss insults to the current administration out there to justify your own position. The whole 'fascist' thing is fraught with innuendo, and is a convenient label to apply to an administration you simply don't like, even though the economy is doing well, (for the most part) and life in general seems to be improving. I will grant you the pres really isn't 'presidential', in the old-school definition of things, but, he is getting the job done. I don't agree with all of his actions, but, that applies to EVERY past administration as well.

 

I also note that you didn't bother to address the financial impact of the sheer number of 'refugees' currently showing up on our doorstep. Here's an idea, if you think those folks are so much better than your fellow citizens, why don't you have them move in with you? You can support them on your own dime, not on my tax dollars. I would MUCH prefer my tax dollars go to supporting our veterans, and actual american citizens. Wouldn't that be novel?

[Deleted67195711User]

 

 

 

 

What if the situation were reversed? What if America were a dirt poor nation, with a largely illiterate population scratching out a meager living, and dreaming of a better life in wealthy Central American countries? Do you think the citizens of those wealthy Central American countries would welcome poor American migrants claiming refugee status, or would they be fearful of seeing their nations overwhelmed by foreign peoples speaking foreign languages, fearful of seeing their culture usurped, fearful of surrendering the heritage they had hoped to bequeath their children?

 

You're right. Deny other human beings their humanity, simply because they are different. It's okay to let them die on our doorstep, they're different. It's okay to return them to be killed by their government, they're different. It's okay to summarily put them in prison without trial, they're different. It's okay to take their children from them, they're different.

 

Sounds eerily familiar. It's okay to put them in prison camps, they're different. It's okay to take their property, they're different. It's okay to kill them, they're different.

 

So please tell me, how is what you are saying we are doing, any different from what their own government is doing? Do you think being held in a federal facility is all fun and games? Should we just let in anyone that wants to come here, without finding out WHY they are coming here? Do you think it would be wise to just open our borders to anyone??

 

Most of those 'refugees' are passing thru several other countries on their way here. Why don't they stay in one of THOSE countries? They are better than what they left behind. (supposedly) Maybe they wanna come here because of all the free handouts the democrats think we should give them...... Why work hard for a living, and barely make it, when you can come here, and get free housing, free food, free health care, and even some spending money?? A standard of living FAR superior to what they left behind, and all for free. What's not to like??? And you wonder why we are some 22 TRILLION dollars in debt?? I don't...... Those entitlements make up better than 25% of the TOTAL federal budget.

 

Have a look at the chart Here. Please note the SPIKE in immigration starting in about 1975...... Now, how long do you think current policy is sustainable? Shouldn't america before for americans FIRST??? Shouldn't we address our own issues with homeless, and lack of affordable healthcare for our citizens FIRST? Why should we put these johnny-come-latelys ahead of citizens?

 

 

Let's see. What happened in the early 1970s. Oh, I remember, Tricky Dick declared a "War on Drugs" and sent armed troops into Central and South America. And that invasion from the north sparked 'tribal' infighting to keep control of the drug manufacturing sources. Imagine that, The United States precipitated the crisis that started the refugees fleeing north. And we have continued pumping money and equipment into Central and Southern America for the last forty five years. Maybe, just maybe now, the United States has a responsibility to those who were, and are, directly impacted by the actions of the United States. Or are you saying the United States should write off the victims of their war on drugs as collateral damage and pretend they don't exist?

 

In spite of your hyperbole, nobody is putting the refugees above American citizens. And according to the commitments the United States made in 1954. we are not supposed to treat refugees as subhuman either. But what Trump is doing with his policies is treating refugees as subhumans who can be tortured, imprisoned, starved and denied their basic human rights just for seeking asylum. And what you are doing by your comments justifying Trump's mistreatment of refugees is to further dehumanize the victims of a true human tragedy. And that is abhorrent. Quite frankly, I would rather befriend a thousand refugees than one United States citizen who would participate in the deliberate dehumanization of even one other human being, especially when their reason is "they're different, they're not like us".

 

But alas, that "they're different, they're not like us" logic is quite popular. It put into power the greatest Fascist regime ever to exist. And the way things are progressing, Trump and his sycophant ideologues might just succeed in creating another.

 

And with that, I am done with this discussion. I am out of pearls for casting.

 

Leaving? Good. The veiled insults, (poorly, at that) and holier-than-thou attitude get old pretty quick.

 

I would also point out that the various countries we are getting 'refugees' from are not due to just the war on drugs. Those countries have issues all their own, that have been ongoing for decades. I would point out that the cartel wars in Mexico are far more violent than other contributors to our 'refugee crisis', yet most of them are NOT Mexicans. Would you care to explain that? Oh, that's right, you just drop your insults and run.

 

You also seem to assume a great deal about me.... Most of which is an invention of your own mind. Please point out where I have ever so much as implied the 'they are different' justification? I don't recall reading anything about the current admin applying that either......

 

I also suspect that you toss insults to the current administration out there to justify your own position. The whole 'fascist' thing is fraught with innuendo, and is a convenient label to apply to an administration you simply don't like, even though the economy is doing well, (for the most part) and life in general seems to be improving. I will grant you the pres really isn't 'presidential', in the old-school definition of things, but, he is getting the job done. I don't agree with all of his actions, but, that applies to EVERY past administration as well.

 

I also note that you didn't bother to address the financial impact of the sheer number of 'refugees' currently showing up on our doorstep. Here's an idea, if you think those folks are so much better than your fellow citizens, why don't you have them move in with you? You can support them on your own dime, not on my tax dollars. I would MUCH prefer my tax dollars go to supporting our veterans, and actual american citizens. Wouldn't that be novel?

 

 

 

Here are some important pieces of information to aid this discussion.

 

America is a signatory to the 1951 Convention on Refugees and the following elements and protocols are defined in that Convention.

• A refugee is defined as any person or persons who are fleeing from what they perceive to be unsafe, dangerous or life threatening conditions in their native country.
• A refugee can freely cross any international border to seek asylum.
• A refugee may not be returned to the country they fled.
• A refugee family unit cannot be separated or broken apart.
• A refugee should not be incarcerated or prosecuted.
• A refugee is entitled to all the same legal protections of the host nation which are afforded the citizens of that nation.

According to the UN, the people arriving at the southern border of the US from Central and South America are refugees.

 

If that ain't enough:

 

According to the FBI Crime Statistics, Refugees do not commit a disproportionate amount of crime, and are in fact less likely to commit crimes.

 

According to the DEA National Drug Assessment for 2018, the illegal drugs entering this country come in through legitimate Ports Of Entry, and the quantity of drugs which come across the border between these ports of entry are statically insignificant.

 

According to the US Department of Labor, Bureau of Labor and Statistics Annual Performance Report, refugees contribute to the economy. This report also says that the major cause for the diminishing number of manufacturing jobs is automation and robotics.

 

According to the Department of Homeland Security, Immigration Data and Statistics, the majority of those who are in this country illegally (non registered foreign nationals) are people who entered the country with a valid visa and never left to return to their home country.

 

 

I did address it. But it seems you are so wrapped up in your personal little poor me pity party that you never bothered to read the posts.

 

Now, you can whine and cry about my posts and my "veiled insults" all you want. Reality is that you cannot deal with a little truth and facts, especially when the facts contradict you ill informed opinions.

 

As for "holier than thou", that is simply one consequence of using documented facts to contradict your "alternate facts" and baseless opinions. It is a sad truth, but science and documented facts have a distinctive liberal bias.

 

As for Fascism, there is a plaque in the Holocaust Museum that lists the warning signs of Fascism. Trump and his sycophants (including you, from what I read) tick every box. Written for legibility, and a photo of the plaque.

 

Now, take you tantrums and your self indulgent pity parade and get lost. I have no patience nor tolerance for petulant children, and your last post clearly demonstrates you to be one.

[HeyYou]

 

 

 

 

 

What if the situation were reversed? What if America were a dirt poor nation, with a largely illiterate population scratching out a meager living, and dreaming of a better life in wealthy Central American countries? Do you think the citizens of those wealthy Central American countries would welcome poor American migrants claiming refugee status, or would they be fearful of seeing their nations overwhelmed by foreign peoples speaking foreign languages, fearful of seeing their culture usurped, fearful of surrendering the heritage they had hoped to bequeath their children?

 

You're right. Deny other human beings their humanity, simply because they are different. It's okay to let them die on our doorstep, they're different. It's okay to return them to be killed by their government, they're different. It's okay to summarily put them in prison without trial, they're different. It's okay to take their children from them, they're different.

 

Sounds eerily familiar. It's okay to put them in prison camps, they're different. It's okay to take their property, they're different. It's okay to kill them, they're different.

 

So please tell me, how is what you are saying we are doing, any different from what their own government is doing? Do you think being held in a federal facility is all fun and games? Should we just let in anyone that wants to come here, without finding out WHY they are coming here? Do you think it would be wise to just open our borders to anyone??

 

Most of those 'refugees' are passing thru several other countries on their way here. Why don't they stay in one of THOSE countries? They are better than what they left behind. (supposedly) Maybe they wanna come here because of all the free handouts the democrats think we should give them...... Why work hard for a living, and barely make it, when you can come here, and get free housing, free food, free health care, and even some spending money?? A standard of living FAR superior to what they left behind, and all for free. What's not to like??? And you wonder why we are some 22 TRILLION dollars in debt?? I don't...... Those entitlements make up better than 25% of the TOTAL federal budget.

 

Have a look at the chart Here. Please note the SPIKE in immigration starting in about 1975...... Now, how long do you think current policy is sustainable? Shouldn't america before for americans FIRST??? Shouldn't we address our own issues with homeless, and lack of affordable healthcare for our citizens FIRST? Why should we put these johnny-come-latelys ahead of citizens?

 

 

Let's see. What happened in the early 1970s. Oh, I remember, Tricky Dick declared a "War on Drugs" and sent armed troops into Central and South America. And that invasion from the north sparked 'tribal' infighting to keep control of the drug manufacturing sources. Imagine that, The United States precipitated the crisis that started the refugees fleeing north. And we have continued pumping money and equipment into Central and Southern America for the last forty five years. Maybe, just maybe now, the United States has a responsibility to those who were, and are, directly impacted by the actions of the United States. Or are you saying the United States should write off the victims of their war on drugs as collateral damage and pretend they don't exist?

 

In spite of your hyperbole, nobody is putting the refugees above American citizens. And according to the commitments the United States made in 1954. we are not supposed to treat refugees as subhuman either. But what Trump is doing with his policies is treating refugees as subhumans who can be tortured, imprisoned, starved and denied their basic human rights just for seeking asylum. And what you are doing by your comments justifying Trump's mistreatment of refugees is to further dehumanize the victims of a true human tragedy. And that is abhorrent. Quite frankly, I would rather befriend a thousand refugees than one United States citizen who would participate in the deliberate dehumanization of even one other human being, especially when their reason is "they're different, they're not like us".

 

But alas, that "they're different, they're not like us" logic is quite popular. It put into power the greatest Fascist regime ever to exist. And the way things are progressing, Trump and his sycophant ideologues might just succeed in creating another.

 

And with that, I am done with this discussion. I am out of pearls for casting.

 

Leaving? Good. The veiled insults, (poorly, at that) and holier-than-thou attitude get old pretty quick.

 

I would also point out that the various countries we are getting 'refugees' from are not due to just the war on drugs. Those countries have issues all their own, that have been ongoing for decades. I would point out that the cartel wars in Mexico are far more violent than other contributors to our 'refugee crisis', yet most of them are NOT Mexicans. Would you care to explain that? Oh, that's right, you just drop your insults and run.

 

You also seem to assume a great deal about me.... Most of which is an invention of your own mind. Please point out where I have ever so much as implied the 'they are different' justification? I don't recall reading anything about the current admin applying that either......

 

I also suspect that you toss insults to the current administration out there to justify your own position. The whole 'fascist' thing is fraught with innuendo, and is a convenient label to apply to an administration you simply don't like, even though the economy is doing well, (for the most part) and life in general seems to be improving. I will grant you the pres really isn't 'presidential', in the old-school definition of things, but, he is getting the job done. I don't agree with all of his actions, but, that applies to EVERY past administration as well.

 

I also note that you didn't bother to address the financial impact of the sheer number of 'refugees' currently showing up on our doorstep. Here's an idea, if you think those folks are so much better than your fellow citizens, why don't you have them move in with you? You can support them on your own dime, not on my tax dollars. I would MUCH prefer my tax dollars go to supporting our veterans, and actual american citizens. Wouldn't that be novel?

 

 

 

Here are some important pieces of information to aid this discussion.

 

America is a signatory to the 1951 Convention on Refugees and the following elements and protocols are defined in that Convention.

• A refugee is defined as any person or persons who are fleeing from what they perceive to be unsafe, dangerous or life threatening conditions in their native country.
• A refugee can freely cross any international border to seek asylum.
• A refugee may not be returned to the country they fled.
• A refugee family unit cannot be separated or broken apart.
• A refugee should not be incarcerated or prosecuted.
• A refugee is entitled to all the same legal protections of the host nation which are afforded the citizens of that nation.

According to the UN, the people arriving at the southern border of the US from Central and South America are refugees.

 

If that ain't enough:

 

According to the FBI Crime Statistics, Refugees do not commit a disproportionate amount of crime, and are in fact less likely to commit crimes.

 

According to the DEA National Drug Assessment for 2018, the illegal drugs entering this country come in through legitimate Ports Of Entry, and the quantity of drugs which come across the border between these ports of entry are statically insignificant.

 

According to the US Department of Labor, Bureau of Labor and Statistics Annual Performance Report, refugees contribute to the economy. This report also says that the major cause for the diminishing number of manufacturing jobs is automation and robotics.

 

According to the Department of Homeland Security, Immigration Data and Statistics, the majority of those who are in this country illegally (non registered foreign nationals) are people who entered the country with a valid visa and never left to return to their home country.

 

 

I did address it. But it seems you are so wrapped up in your personal little poor me pity party that you never bothered to read the posts.

 

Now, you can whine and cry about my posts and my "veiled insults" all you want. Reality is that you cannot deal with a little truth and facts, especially when the facts contradict you ill informed opinions.

 

As for "holier than thou", that is simply one consequence of using documented facts to contradict your "alternate facts" and baseless opinions. It is a sad truth, but science and documented facts have a distinctive liberal bias.

 

As for Fascism, there is a plaque in the Holocaust Museum that lists the warning signs of Fascism. Trump and his sycophants (including you, from what I read) tick every box. Written for legibility, and a photo of the plaque.

 

Now, take you tantrums and your self indulgent pity parade and get lost. I have no patience nor tolerance for petulant children, and your last post clearly demonstrates you to be one.

 

Wow. We went from veiled insults, and holier than though, to straight up insults, and arrogance. That's a nice combination.

 

I also see that you are firmly instilled with the democrat creed. So that means that any argument that disagrees with yours, is obviously a lie, or based on 'alternate facts', or, you seek to disparage the character of your opponent. Congrats, you tick every box.

 

Welcome to my ignore list. :) I have to deal with too many folks that have inflated opinions of themselves on a daily basis, I really don't need it here. You most certainly fall into that category. I have no use for egotistical narcissists, so, Goodbye.

[Deleted67195711User]

 

 

 

 

 

 

What if the situation were reversed? What if America were a dirt poor nation, with a largely illiterate population scratching out a meager living, and dreaming of a better life in wealthy Central American countries? Do you think the citizens of those wealthy Central American countries would welcome poor American migrants claiming refugee status, or would they be fearful of seeing their nations overwhelmed by foreign peoples speaking foreign languages, fearful of seeing their culture usurped, fearful of surrendering the heritage they had hoped to bequeath their children?

 

You're right. Deny other human beings their humanity, simply because they are different. It's okay to let them die on our doorstep, they're different. It's okay to return them to be killed by their government, they're different. It's okay to summarily put them in prison without trial, they're different. It's okay to take their children from them, they're different.

 

Sounds eerily familiar. It's okay to put them in prison camps, they're different. It's okay to take their property, they're different. It's okay to kill them, they're different.

 

So please tell me, how is what you are saying we are doing, any different from what their own government is doing? Do you think being held in a federal facility is all fun and games? Should we just let in anyone that wants to come here, without finding out WHY they are coming here? Do you think it would be wise to just open our borders to anyone??

 

Most of those 'refugees' are passing thru several other countries on their way here. Why don't they stay in one of THOSE countries? They are better than what they left behind. (supposedly) Maybe they wanna come here because of all the free handouts the democrats think we should give them...... Why work hard for a living, and barely make it, when you can come here, and get free housing, free food, free health care, and even some spending money?? A standard of living FAR superior to what they left behind, and all for free. What's not to like??? And you wonder why we are some 22 TRILLION dollars in debt?? I don't...... Those entitlements make up better than 25% of the TOTAL federal budget.

 

Have a look at the chart Here. Please note the SPIKE in immigration starting in about 1975...... Now, how long do you think current policy is sustainable? Shouldn't america before for americans FIRST??? Shouldn't we address our own issues with homeless, and lack of affordable healthcare for our citizens FIRST? Why should we put these johnny-come-latelys ahead of citizens?

 

 

Let's see. What happened in the early 1970s. Oh, I remember, Tricky Dick declared a "War on Drugs" and sent armed troops into Central and South America. And that invasion from the north sparked 'tribal' infighting to keep control of the drug manufacturing sources. Imagine that, The United States precipitated the crisis that started the refugees fleeing north. And we have continued pumping money and equipment into Central and Southern America for the last forty five years. Maybe, just maybe now, the United States has a responsibility to those who were, and are, directly impacted by the actions of the United States. Or are you saying the United States should write off the victims of their war on drugs as collateral damage and pretend they don't exist?

 

In spite of your hyperbole, nobody is putting the refugees above American citizens. And according to the commitments the United States made in 1954. we are not supposed to treat refugees as subhuman either. But what Trump is doing with his policies is treating refugees as subhumans who can be tortured, imprisoned, starved and denied their basic human rights just for seeking asylum. And what you are doing by your comments justifying Trump's mistreatment of refugees is to further dehumanize the victims of a true human tragedy. And that is abhorrent. Quite frankly, I would rather befriend a thousand refugees than one United States citizen who would participate in the deliberate dehumanization of even one other human being, especially when their reason is "they're different, they're not like us".

 

But alas, that "they're different, they're not like us" logic is quite popular. It put into power the greatest Fascist regime ever to exist. And the way things are progressing, Trump and his sycophant ideologues might just succeed in creating another.

 

And with that, I am done with this discussion. I am out of pearls for casting.

 

Leaving? Good. The veiled insults, (poorly, at that) and holier-than-thou attitude get old pretty quick.

 

I would also point out that the various countries we are getting 'refugees' from are not due to just the war on drugs. Those countries have issues all their own, that have been ongoing for decades. I would point out that the cartel wars in Mexico are far more violent than other contributors to our 'refugee crisis', yet most of them are NOT Mexicans. Would you care to explain that? Oh, that's right, you just drop your insults and run.

 

You also seem to assume a great deal about me.... Most of which is an invention of your own mind. Please point out where I have ever so much as implied the 'they are different' justification? I don't recall reading anything about the current admin applying that either......

 

I also suspect that you toss insults to the current administration out there to justify your own position. The whole 'fascist' thing is fraught with innuendo, and is a convenient label to apply to an administration you simply don't like, even though the economy is doing well, (for the most part) and life in general seems to be improving. I will grant you the pres really isn't 'presidential', in the old-school definition of things, but, he is getting the job done. I don't agree with all of his actions, but, that applies to EVERY past administration as well.

 

I also note that you didn't bother to address the financial impact of the sheer number of 'refugees' currently showing up on our doorstep. Here's an idea, if you think those folks are so much better than your fellow citizens, why don't you have them move in with you? You can support them on your own dime, not on my tax dollars. I would MUCH prefer my tax dollars go to supporting our veterans, and actual american citizens. Wouldn't that be novel?

 

 

 

Here are some important pieces of information to aid this discussion.

 

America is a signatory to the 1951 Convention on Refugees and the following elements and protocols are defined in that Convention.

• A refugee is defined as any person or persons who are fleeing from what they perceive to be unsafe, dangerous or life threatening conditions in their native country.
• A refugee can freely cross any international border to seek asylum.
• A refugee may not be returned to the country they fled.
• A refugee family unit cannot be separated or broken apart.
• A refugee should not be incarcerated or prosecuted.
• A refugee is entitled to all the same legal protections of the host nation which are afforded the citizens of that nation.

According to the UN, the people arriving at the southern border of the US from Central and South America are refugees.

 

If that ain't enough:

 

According to the FBI Crime Statistics, Refugees do not commit a disproportionate amount of crime, and are in fact less likely to commit crimes.

 

According to the DEA National Drug Assessment for 2018, the illegal drugs entering this country come in through legitimate Ports Of Entry, and the quantity of drugs which come across the border between these ports of entry are statically insignificant.

 

According to the US Department of Labor, Bureau of Labor and Statistics Annual Performance Report, refugees contribute to the economy. This report also says that the major cause for the diminishing number of manufacturing jobs is automation and robotics.

 

According to the Department of Homeland Security, Immigration Data and Statistics, the majority of those who are in this country illegally (non registered foreign nationals) are people who entered the country with a valid visa and never left to return to their home country.

 

 

I did address it. But it seems you are so wrapped up in your personal little poor me pity party that you never bothered to read the posts.

 

Now, you can whine and cry about my posts and my "veiled insults" all you want. Reality is that you cannot deal with a little truth and facts, especially when the facts contradict you ill informed opinions.

 

As for "holier than thou", that is simply one consequence of using documented facts to contradict your "alternate facts" and baseless opinions. It is a sad truth, but science and documented facts have a distinctive liberal bias.

 

As for Fascism, there is a plaque in the Holocaust Museum that lists the warning signs of Fascism. Trump and his sycophants (including you, from what I read) tick every box. Written for legibility, and a photo of the plaque.

 

Now, take you tantrums and your self indulgent pity parade and get lost. I have no patience nor tolerance for petulant children, and your last post clearly demonstrates you to be one.

 

Wow. We went from veiled insults, and holier than though, to straight up insults, and arrogance. That's a nice combination.

 

I also see that you are firmly instilled with the democrat creed. So that means that any argument that disagrees with yours, is obviously a lie, or based on 'alternate facts', or, you seek to disparage the character of your opponent. Congrats, you tick every box.

 

Welcome to my ignore list. :smile: I have to deal with too many folks that have inflated opinions of themselves on a daily basis, I really don't need it here. You most certainly fall into that category. I have no use for egotistical narcissists, so, Goodbye.

 

 

 

I understand why any statement that points out your ignorance and fallacies is considered an insult. Pointing at your falsehoods is a very practical demonstration that you have no idea what you are talking about and that you make stuff up to justify your opinion. You eschew reality in favor of your delusions.

 

You don't need an egotistical narcissist? But you support the one in the White House. Hypocrisy? Ignorance? Delusion? Denial? All of the above?

 

I must thank you however, as you reminded me of this quote by Isaac Asimov. "There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." - Newsweek, 21 January 1980

 

And there you are, an anti-intellectual. Intelligence is arrogance. Facts are insults. Pointing at falsehoods means one possesses an over inflated opinion of oneself. Disagreement means one is an egotistical narcissist. It is good to finally understand that you are an adherent of Big Brother. "War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength." - George Orwell, 1984

 

If you are a sample of an average American, god help us all.

[Mktavish]

/snip

And that is exactly why the 1951 Convention on Refugees was written and ratified, to bind countries to ethical treatment of refugees. So why is America now ignoring it's early commitment to the 1951 Convention on Refugees and abandoning it's commitment to the ethical treatment of refugees? Is it that these refugees do not bring enough wealth with them to bribe their way to respectability? Or is it perchance that they were not adequately educated in their dirt-floor school house? Or could it simply be that these refugees are not Europeans, but are instead Central and Southern Americas?

 

What ever the reason, American needs to stop criminalizing being a refugee and start living up to the International treaty they ratified in 1954.

 

Edit - Why did America deny admission to these thousands of Jews? National Security. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/us-government-turned-away-thousands-jewish-refugees-fearing-they-were-nazi-spies-180957324/

Now refugees from Central and Southern America are a threat to National Security. The more things change ...

 

Soory all I have not read the rest of the debate from this point.

But I felt compelled to bring up this post , as the best post for promoting discussion that I have seen. Ergo hopefully erasing my first response to BlackSwanny they are holding me over the coals for :/ ...

 

Sorry I didn't see your brilliance sooner at that juncture . no sarcasm ... which I know I am bad at using then leaving un clarity. I'll endeavor to not do that .

[Mktavish]

Okies I tried to catch up on the subject evolution...

And I forget exactly the point I meant to bring up by the time of getting to the end.

 

But was about the US culpability in turning those places into Drug WarLord torn places.

Which we know the Contra affair was about. And definitely laid the ground for a black market highway. And in all good conscience ... you have to say the US is a culpable party.

 

But there are many ways to fix and pay reparations.

[HeyYou]

Okies I tried to catch up on the subject evolution...

And I forget exactly the point I meant to bring up by the time of getting to the end.

 

But was about the US culpability in turning those places into Drug WarLord torn places.

Which we know the Contra affair was about. And definitely laid the ground for a black market highway. And in all good conscience ... you have to say the US is a culpable party.

 

But there are many ways to fix and pay reparations.

That particular black market existed long before Iran/Contra happened. It's been there just this side of forever. (late 1920's or so.) And really got going in the late 30's, after various 'imported' drugs were made illegal.

 

Our culpability extends to the fact that we are pretty much their biggest market. But again, that's been the case for quite some time. It's supply and demand. Just because you ban something, doesn't make it go away, nor does it eliminate the market for said product. In fact, making it illegal actually INCREASES it's value for those willing to take the risk. Hence, why the war on drugs was an abject failure before it was even declared. (but, we knew that at the time in any event.)

 

Want to eliminate, or dramatically reduce the demand for the black market side of things? Legalize it, regulate it, tax it. Provide a LEGAL product, that is better, and cheaper, than the black market stuff, and you will be able to watch the black market dry up, and blow away. Of course, that isn't likely to happen for much beyond pot. I don't see the US government legalizing coke, or heroin any time soon...... so, there will always be a black market for those products.

 

And then, of course, the way the government is going about regulating pot....... I suspect there will always be a black market demand for it as well......

[Deleted54170User]

If all the U. S. citizens that are Mexican by blood, a lot of who have lived in the 48 states long before the states were sanctioned as states, that voted their language in, as the U. S. of A.'s second language, didn't like Trump, those citizens who have lived here since before the U. S. of A. was so named, that are Mexican, that voted in the ballots to add Mexican as the nations second language must be a large enough population, they could, and likely would rise up and get him impeached if they didn't like him building a Wall across the Mexican border to the Lower U. S. States, or for any other reason. I think they would have by now.

 

It only took a bunch of people, who the Vietnam Era Veterans were among, who disliked Pres. Nixon to add up enough votes to get him impeached.

 

Or was he impeached by those people in office because they were afraid of losing their status and office if they didn't impeach him, for one reason or another?

 

What's keeping the voters U. S. Citizens, who are Mexican, that are old long time citizens since way back when, whose family members are from those families that have been citizens since before; from doing the same to Trump?

 

HAPPY 4th of July!