Vault 76, What will make you give it a chance?

[RS13]

That sort of reminds me, I hated survival setup in fallout 4. Mainly in regards to how often the prompts to eat/drink/sleep came up... which if they pulled the same sort of setup in 76 I'd have another hard pass on the game.

Well, they can't do that for sleep since we can't accelerate time in a shared world. Not sure if eat and drink are unchanged.

[Mavkiel]

Its probably what Todd meant by survival lite (everything about survival minus the sleep). Food.. I am guessing would be the same, only more annoying once you factor in rotting food. Unless rotten food is a gimmick, that only occurs if you're careless.

 

Its really rather annoying, I am trying to be upbeat about this game.

[RS13]

Its probably what Todd meant by survival lite (everything about survival minus the sleep). Food.. I am guessing would be the same, only more annoying once you factor in rotting food. Unless rotten food is a gimmick, that only occurs if you're careless.

 

Its really rather annoying, I am trying to be upbeat about this game.

That makes one of us. I'm having more fun imagining the ways Bethesda's going to screw this up. :p

Edited June 19, 2018 by RS13

[zanity]

Playing Fallout 4, I've found the AI and damage models such that combat is utterly boring minus the first few days out of the Vault. Honestly, combat in Fallout 4 is a crushing disappointment. The only part of the game I've enjoyed has been the settlement building, and that is as underdeveloped as the combat system. And AI.

 

I'd be interested in Fallout 76 if the combat was better, more immersive and intense. Then again, if there is no way to avoid griefers, no way to avoid randos, I'm not going to be interested no matter what.

 

That said, without the settlement building aspect, what is it? Another boring game of running around and shooting lame monsters? I've got a Steam library already full of that crap.

 

One last thing, the game is looking exactly like Fallout 4 with a couple extra shader effects thrown in, and Fallout 4 is dated as hell. Why should I be interested, when I'm likely not even half way through Fallout 4?

I found combat in Fallout 4 the same as most people I've read- 'interesting' when it seemed difficult to survive shootouts, and dull when leveled enough enough with good weapons to essentially eliminate the challenge. Mods helped put back some of the late game challenge, of course, but serious combat mods tended to be the least stable, as Fallout 4 is just a terrible engine when it comes to large numbers of enemies, especially if they are rapidly generated across cells.

 

I think single player, first person, gun based role playing games have a fundamental issue when even trying to identify what good gameplay even is. One can try to learn from the best. But if one takes a game like Borderlands1/2 (which I had a blast playing in offline single player mode), one sees that great shooting probably requires a game where shooting is about all you do- and that's not Fallout.

 

In a multi-player context, combat design becomes EASIER in theory, for you do as games like The Division show- make a STATEGIC shooter where people have to work together intelligently to beat the mini-bosses and bosses. But any hope for this thinking in Fallout:76 is a joke- the videos released made it clear multi-player combat is just more people firing more times at a more bullet-spongy enemy- the laziest option of all.

 

You say that griefers and randos are a conceptually BAD thing in Fallout:76, and everyone on or side of the fence seems to agree. Todd does not- and with very good reason. Todd knows the type of game he is cloning- classic multiplayer survival- MUST be toxic to stand any chance of being INTERESTING (the word he keeps using is "DRAMA").

 

I agree with Todd 100%, but I disagree that there is any chance that he can turn this niche form of gaming into a AAA Fallout style success and keep people on board with the hard-core psychology. I don't think randos and griefing will or can be any fun at all in Fallout:76 - but I do belief griefing and randos has their crtiical place in all the early access 'survival' games on Steam.

 

If you go to McDonalds and order a Big Mac, and are served a plate of vegetable soup instead, with the statement "a lot of people really like vegetable soup", you are going to think something is really off. But this is what Todd is doing with Fallout- and the shills bashing the sceptics are literally saying "what have you got against vegetable soup", as if that is the point, when clearly it is not.

 

Todd has neither the skills, knowledge or inclination to make the game that should have been called RAGE:SURVIVAL and not Fallout:76. So once again he has turned to years of modding (mostly on the Nexus) for inspiration. But mods here are mostly wrong and irrelevant for a rust rip-off. Not the fault of modders- just the limited ability to change the gaming experience in Fallout 4.

 

You say "why should I be interested?". Actually the engine for Fallout:76 has clearly be overhauled to the extent that it is really a new engine - a modern land-first engine (like Far Cry) that can do the large vistas properly, and now renders everything (at last) on the GPU. Occlusion and shadow issues should be fully fixed. I think more of these improvements will impact consoles, since a good PC was always able to use pure horsepower to mitigate a lot of older engine issues.

 

The proper answer is always in the game itself. The game has to justify itself. The whole point of the old gaming genre Beth used to respect (single player story based RPG) is that the formula guaranteed a satisfying game. Rust DOES NOT guarantee a satisying game. Has anyone cracked Rust at the AAA level? I don't think so- Metal Gear Survive went down like a lead balloon. State of Decay 2 wouldn't have sold if Xbox players had more exclusives to choose from. Same with that awful pirates game from Rare.

 

Here's the thing. At this time the game DOES NOT PERSIST. You log out- bye, bye that game instance. Log back in- new instance with new randos, new camps, new states for the permanent fortress locations, new states for the nuked ground. YOU start over, save for your progression and the articles in your possession.

 

This make NO SENSE- and is exactly contrary to the needs of the optimists telling us the game will be great. This kind of game needs WORLD PERSISTANCE.

 

It gets WORSE. If a gamer (billy no-life) never logs out, he/she can RULE that instance, for the instance contnues as long as the log in continues. Fallout:76's current design is so silly, it creates this as yet undiscussed issue. Yet Todd's ONLY answer to this terrible problem is to say that game persistance offers nothing of value- the exact opposite of how every gamer sees their world in Skyrim and Fallout today.

 

And game/world persistance has nothing to do with genre, unless we are talking about deathmatch where we need the world to reset before the start of each map. But neither Fallout:Rust nor Fallout:76 is of a genre where people expect a world reset every time they start a new session.

 

You level up, but the world literally does not, and the randos are more random in every way, including game experience, than any other game I know- pure madness.

 

Take your experience come Xmas. You've leveled a character and own uber weapons. You log in. The game instance (except for the radiant 'treasure hunt' pseudo quests) is effectively reset or 'random' for you. The other 23 randos are random in the most meaningless way. So you reactivate your levelled up (tiny -cos thats as big as they get) 'camp'. And you invite another 4 randos to join your camp, which they do.

 

Now tell me how Beth CODES an attack on this camp. What level are the attacking AI? If the 4 randos now on your team are 'noobs', any high-level enemies are POINTLESS (noobs die immediately, and have no impact on enemies). But if even one of the team is much higher than you, YOU are POINTLESS in any camp defense situation of significance. And that's before you consider whether the gun play code is good or fun.

 

Fortnite lacks this issue, cos everyone starts from scratch each deathmatch. But Todd tells you your progression 'MATTERS' yet playing with randos will work. By definition, these two things cannot both be true at the same time.

 

Today, the success of Fallout:76 is 100% predicated on small groups of players exploring the large map together. This FAKE gameplay (for it is not at the core of what is supposed to make Fallout:76 a lasting experience) will be good enough to sell the game to lazy gaming journalists. It actually serves the same be-dazzing, bamboozling trick that elaborate cut-scenes did back in the bad old days. Lazy game journalists could sit back in their chairs, "coo" and "gasp" at the cinematic visuals, and then recommend the game to their readers,

 

I'm not knocking the trick that is used in place of gameplay to the extent of saying the trick is no fun. Who hasn't enjoyed simply exploring the worlds in Fallout/3/NV/4 and Skyrim? But then again I would say there was a purposeful LACK of video material showing the same kinds of complex interiors found in Fallout 4. Many land-first engines are terrible at doing interiors, and until proven otherwise I'm suspicious that Fallout:76 is the same ie., no good 'dungeons'.

 

As for 'dated'- well as a publisher with very mediocre coding skills, everything Beth does is 'dated'. Beth's skill is in making the very naive think any of their work is state-of-the-art. Want to see state-of-the-art, look toward 'naughty dog', or 'rockstar' or 'techland' etc. This is why Beth giving up on story driven installments of Elder Scrolls and Fallout is so dissapointing- this was something they could do (or pay another dev to do) with guaranteed results every time. A game design within their skillset.

 

Very few critics of Fallout 4 would not have welcomed Fallout 5 with open arms if it had been more of the same. But when Fallout 5 = Fallout 76 (and Fallout 76 ***IS*** Fallout 5, just as Battlefield One was the true Battlefield 5), fans of Fallout 4 have a real problem. A problem they didn't see coming. A problem that seems to have no logical excuse for existing.

[sopmac45]

""t gets WORSE. If a gamer (billy no-life) never logs out, he/she can RULE that instance, for the instance contnues as long as the log in continues. Fallout:76's current design is so silly, it creates this as yet undiscussed issue. Yet Todd's ONLY answer to this terrible problem is to say that game persistance offers nothing of value- the exact opposite of how every gamer sees their world in Skyrim and Fallout today. ""

 

> Yes, agreed. Persistence is boring and I feel like that when I am playing Skyrim and Fallout 4. My approach would have been to "extend / expand" Skyrim and / or Fallout 4 ( via DLC ) to new regions / areas in the Tamriel / US maps, and by so, get profit and let the community playing the same game in different areas that could be modded. Would not be fun in Fallout 4 to walk to New York which also has been nuked and start fighting different enemies where you can also create new settlements and stuff ? How about if Skyrim would have expanded to different areas of Tamriel where the dragonborn is facing new challenges ? How about if those expansions could have been modded ? The experience would have been unlimited ! I would have preferred this approach than online games. But this is my personal opinion and I could be wrong !

[TheSpaceShuttleChallenger]

Maybe a free weekend would make me give it a chance. But I know how games of these sorts (PvP survival) go. You play maybe five hours before you run out of stuff do to, get griefed to high heaven, you're bored and frustrated and don't want to play anymore. Besides, I already wasted sixty dollars giving ESO a shot. A bad game dressed up in good IP is still a bad game.

At this point my plan is just to sit back and watch it go up in flames. Maybe if Fallout 76 tanks hard enough, Zenimax will learn to keep its money-grubbing mitts off of Bethesda's tried-and-true process and just let them do what they're good at. Probably not. But one could hope.

[TheSpaceShuttleChallenger]

Update: I just rolled over to the official forums and met the kind of people are interested in playing Fallout 4. Yikes.

Edited June 20, 2018 by TheSpaceShuttleChallenger

[MissingMeshTV]

Update: I just rolled over to the official forums and met the kind of people are interested in playing Fallout 4. Yikes.

Yeah...every time I get the morbid curiosity to poke my head in there I'm quickly remind why I don't go there. It seems to have gotten worse since Fallout Online was announced.

[chucksteel]

 

Update: I just rolled over to the official forums and met the kind of people are interested in playing Fallout 4. Yikes.

 

Yeah...every time I get the morbid curiosity to poke my head in there I'm quickly remind why I don't go there. It seems to have gotten worse since Fallout Online was announced.

But it’s sometimes fun to mess with their heads! I shut one of the PvP trolls up by using the word “oxymoron”! They obviously didn’t know what it meant.

 

Fun times!

[SirGalahad]

Update: I just rolled over to the official forums and met the kind of people are interested in playing Fallout 4. Yikes.

 

LOL.

 

I imagine it is heavily monitored and censored over there. You don't know who's actually behind any given post or if moderators and developers are Smurfing. I like it here, because it seems most everyone is a normal person who actually plays the game.

 

I did not realize the way Fallout 76 game play reset with each instance. I suppose other online RPGs do the same?

 

Too bad we can't have persistent game play and co-op together.

 

I played Warframe non-stop for years. It was the only game I played. Eventually, you get to the point where you realize that you are on a treadmill, doing the same damn thing over and over, and no new weapon or skin is going to change that. It's not as if one can mod somebody's online game and turn it into a new experience. I put a lot of money into Warframe, but I can't see dropping another dime on it today. Eventually, familiarity and boredom overtake the developer's ability to create new and meaningful experiences.

 

In contrast, I can install Skyrim and mod the heck out of it, ending up with something different than what I played years ago. Now THAT is true value in gaming.

Edited June 21, 2018 by SirGalahad