Load Order Shifts in Other Applications; Game ESMs Are Inactive

[GBHHornswoggler]

First of all: I'm pretty sure I'm doing something fundamentally wrong. (Probably something really basic, too.) But I haven't been able to figure out what that thing is. So any insight would be welcome.

 

I'm experimenting with Vortex to familiarize myself with it, and attempting to manage Fallout 3. (For two reasons: I'm not actively playing that right now, and it tends to be crash-prone anyway, so it will be clearer if Vortex helps on that front.)

 

I have basically the list of mods I'd like to run with installed and deployed, and have cleared up the obvious conflicts. Autosorting is enabled. I'm using Vortex 0.15.2. And I'm trying to make my patches now.

 

In Vortex, the Fallout 3 ESM and DLCs are at the top of the load order, with star and lock icons, as expected.

 

But when I open up Mator Smash to make a Smashed Patch, the DLCs have migrated down to the bottom of the ESMs, and are unchecked as well. That puts a number of plug-ins above their masters, and so making a patch fails.

 

Oddly, when I open FO3Edit, the DLCs are still unchecked (as is the Fallout 3 ESM), but they're in the expected positions at the top. But the two plugins at Mod Index 17 and 18 have switched positions -- which makes that program fail, since #18 is dependent on #17 (and has a rule to enforce that). So making a patch in FO3Edit also fails, for what seems like a different reason.

 

If I open Wrye Flash, the game ESMs are in the correct position and unchecked. (I was able to get LOOT to sort the plugins by first opening Wrye Flash, checking those ESMs, closing Wrye Flash, and then opening LOOT. Without doing that, the game ESMs are not checked in LOOT, and it won't sort.) I can make a Bashed Patch in Wrye if I check the game ESMs first.

 

It seems like something else is changing the load order, or just marking the game ESMs inactive -- either a Vortex process I don't see, or some other application. I do have Mod Organizer 2 open, but that is managing Fallout 4, which shouldn't affect Fallout 3. I've been launching other applications from Vortex, since I'm used to doing it that way from MO2.

 

Any thoughts, or ideas to test, would be welcome.

[Grestorn]

Are You aware that there are two tabs, one for the mods (and their 'overwriting' order and one the plugins with their load order, which basically reflects the contents of plugins.txt?

 

If you write about mods and their order, it's not clear what you're talking about.

[Tannin42]

The bethesda games contain hard-coded lists of plugins that they will always load and in a fixed order (e.g. Skyrim will load Skyrim.esm and Update.esm), whether or not they are listed in plugins.txt and in what order has absolutely no effect.

There is a certain confusion among users where they think they can change the load order of those files or disable them, so I aimed to make it very clear in Vortex that these plugins are special and can't be affected by the user. It also doesn't write them to plugins.txt just to make it clear that those files are not part of the plugin list you configure.

 

Most other tools do however expect the files to be listed so vortex will do that in future versions too.

 

If however any of the files vortex treats as "hard coded" is not actually loaded when using vortex it's important you report that as an issue, such errors will be harder to notice in the future.

[GBHHornswoggler]

Grestorn: Thanks; sorry for not being as clear as I should have been. I mean the Plugins tab of Vortex; I'm talking about load order.

 

Tannin42: Thanks for replying. Vortex is definitely putting the game ESMs at the top of my load order, in the correct sequence, as expected. I'm not seeing any behavior I'd call an error within Vortex.

 

This may be my ignorance speaking, but it feels like Vortex is saying "these plugins are loaded automatically; they are not managed" and other tools are interpreting that as "these plugins are not active." The game engine understands Vortex; the game launches. But the other tools -- maybe the versions I'm using? -- are misinterpreting Vortex's instructions.

 

It almost certainly is due to my idiosyncratic setup, so I'll keep tinkering with things.

 

I'm still figuring out how Vortex works, but it's interesting and quite elegant. My one current hope for future development is for a system like Mod Organizer's "mohidden" status for inactive plugins; looking at a list of plugins and having to remember which are inactive on purpose (because of individual choices and options) can make things difficult, particularly when building patches. I'm not planning to use Vortex for Fallout New Vegas any time soon in large part because of the much lower plugin cap on that game. Being able to hide inactive plugins from the Data folder would be a nice enhancement, eventually.

[HadToRegister]

Make sure you don't have your load order "LOCKED" in WryeFlash, because it will try and keep it that way and change it in Vortex, even unchecking all the plugins etc.

Before using MatorSmash, be sure to click SORT NOW on the plugins tab of Vortex and wait a couple of second.
MatorSmash should then properly read the load order, I know I was having this problem with Xedit when I'd install a new mod with WryeBash and would start Xedit before WryeBash had "settled down" and the load order kicked in
If I loaded Xedit too soon after sorting the load order after changing, installing or uninstalling a mod, Xedit would read it all out of order.
So, give it a few seconds to 'cool down'

Same with MatoirSmash.
I've been using it successfully with WryeBash and NMM and SKyrim SE, and successfully with Vortex and Fallout 4

[duckyduckyquackquack]

I'm having an issue whereby everything looks good with the Mods Load Order in Vortex, the game will even launch and run correctly. However when I run the FO4Edit program to make a Merged Patch and check some overrides/conflicts with individual mods its for whatever reason trying to load some Mod ESM and ESL files before Bethesda's own Creation Club ESL Files, which then causes the problem that the program breaks due to 'Missing Masters' error as it's trying to load some files before the actual Bethesda Content it depends on. I however can't for the life of my see how to resolve this issue as for all intents and purposes Vortex/Loot has the load order correct.

[HadToRegister]

I'm having an issue whereby everything looks good with the Mods Load Order in Vortex, the game will even launch and run correctly. However when I run the FO4Edit program to make a Merged Patch and check some overrides/conflicts with individual mods its for whatever reason trying to load some Mod ESM and ESL files before Bethesda's own Creation Club ESL Files, which then causes the problem that the program breaks due to 'Missing Masters' error as it's trying to load some files before the actual Bethesda Content it depends on. I however can't for the life of my see how to resolve this issue as for all intents and purposes Vortex/Loot has the load order correct.

What version of FO4Edit are you using?,

I ask because the latest version is 3.2.1, and I'm not having this problem.

I make sure to do a Manual "SORT NOW" on the Plugins Tab of Vortex at least once before I use FO4Edit.

Then I run FO4Edit from Vortex.

[duckyduckyquackquack]

 

I'm having an issue whereby everything looks good with the Mods Load Order in Vortex, the game will even launch and run correctly. However when I run the FO4Edit program to make a Merged Patch and check some overrides/conflicts with individual mods its for whatever reason trying to load some Mod ESM and ESL files before Bethesda's own Creation Club ESL Files, which then causes the problem that the program breaks due to 'Missing Masters' error as it's trying to load some files before the actual Bethesda Content it depends on. I however can't for the life of my see how to resolve this issue as for all intents and purposes Vortex/Loot has the load order correct.

What version of FO4Edit are you using?,

I ask because the latest version is 3.2.1, and I'm not having this problem.

I make sure to do a Manual "SORT NOW" on the Plugins Tab of Vortex at least once before I use FO4Edit.

Then I run FO4Edit from Vortex.

 

 

I'm running 3.2.1 version of FO4Edit. Its weird because in other programs like LOOT and Wrye Bash the Load Order is appearing as per the one in Vortex as I can see, obviously excluding the Bethesda content, which Vortex doesn't apply a load order numbering to because it says those files are loading by the engine, yet I know other mod managers in the past have allowed you to move those files around in your load order, obviously that breaks the game, but it lets you manipulate them.

 

For whatever reason it seems FO4Edit it reading the mod index or something else as it every time I open it wants to load:

 

Fallout4.esm

DLCRobot.esm

DLCWorkshop01.esm

DLCCoast.esm

DLCWorkshop02.esm

DLCWorkshop03.esm

DLCNukaWorld.esm

Unofficial Fallout 4 Patch.esp

ArmorKeywords.esm

BetterManufacturing.esp

HUDFramework.esm

ModularMilitaryBackpackWeightPatch.esl

SimSettlements.esm

XDI.esm

ccbgsfo4001-pipboy(black).esl

ccbgsfo4003-pipboy(camo01).esl

ccbgsfo4004-pipboy(camo02).esl

ccbgsfo4006-pipboy(chrome).esl

ccbgsfo4005-bluecamo.esl

ccbgsfo4014-pipboy(white).esl

ccbgsfo4016-prey.esl

ccbgsfo4018-gaussrifleprototype.esl

ccbgsfo4019-chinesestealtharmor.esl

ccbgsfo4020-powerarmorskin(black).esl

ccbgsfo4022-powerarmorskin(camo01).esl

ccbgsfo4023-powerarmorskin(camo02).esl

ccbgsfo4024-pacamo03.esl

ccbgsfo4025-powerarmorskin(chrome).esl

ccbgsfo4033-powerarmorskinwhite.esl

ccbgsfo4038-horsearmor.esl

ccbgsfo4041-doommarinearmor.esl

ccbgsfo4042-bfg.esl

ccbgsfo4044-hellfirepowerarmor.esl

cceejfo4001-decorationpack.esl

ccfrsfo4001-handmadeshotgun.esl

ccfsvfo4001-modularmilitarybackpack.esl

3dscopes.esp

3dscopes-AddToSpawnList.esp

3dscopes-framework.esp

4 x XP.esp

AdvSettleTurretSet.esp

Better Manufacturing - Valdacil Patch.esp

Armorsmith Extended.esp

clothingoverhaul.esp

ClothingOverhaulSP_XB1_PC.esp

Armorsmith All DLCs Patch.esp

ConcealedArmor.esp

AE-Armor and Weapon Paint Patch.esp

 

For FO4Edit to work it needs to actually load those bold files after all the CC content, which I can't find an option to get it to do. Oddly I never had this problem last week when I was using Mod Organiser 2 to manage my Fallout 4 installation. Its only since moving to a new PC and deciding to give Vortex another test as haven't touched it since the initial launch that I'm seeing this problem. Sadly I can't test if its having the same impact on Skyrim Special Edition with SSEEdit as I'm still using Nexus Mod Manager to manage that game as am midway through a YouTube series and don't want to mess up my installation/mods, but again with that when I do run SSEEdit it loads the load order that NMM has set so the Bethesda Files appear first, all Creation Club files and then it loads the Mods.

[duckyduckyquackquack]

Okay a quick post on the FO4Edit Mod page got the response from Sharlikran that FO4Edit looks at the plugins.txt and loadorder.txt file for information on how to generate it's file selection, although it can't edit the alter these files directly itself. So the problem I'm having is because in none of these files whether it be the ones in AppData\Local\Fallout 4 (which FO4Edit looks for) or the AppData\Roaming\Vortex\fallout4\profiles\By4itY-GQ does it list any of Creation Club content.

 

So as I test I've painstakingly gone through all the txt files and manually added the names of all the Creation Club ESL and ESM files at the top on the following line from "# Automatically generated by Vortex" and before the Unofficial Fallout 4 Patch.esp and then saved the files. Now when I open FO4Edit it loads everything in the correct order. All Mods now come after the Official Game, DLC and Creation Club Content and now I can open my entire load order without the 'Missing Masters fault'. Now I'm going to assume however as soon as I open Vortex, it'll replace those txt files and remove all mentions and references to the Creation Club files and only list the Mods it's installing.