Mods "Install Order" does not reflect install order

[Byg]

I'm using the latest Vortex BTW, for skyrim VR. Vortex has updated a couple of times since I started modding.

 

Sorting my mods (not plugins) by "install order" assigns seemingly random numbers to my mods. It does not reflect the order I installed them in (which is shown by "Installation Time", nor does it reflect the dependencies I set as I would expect. How can I make it simply show the order these mods are installed/activated in?

 

Are these install order numbers completely meaningless or is Vortex actually going to apply that install order, which would in some instances overwrite some textures , for example.

 

Or is it a bug I can fix/not fix?

 

Thanks for any help. Looked for ages without finding anyone experiencing the same problem.

 

EDIT: for further clarity, I have a mod that changes many textures and another mod that improves upon a few of those. So I installed the larger mod first then the smaller (if that matters) then I set dependencies/resolved conflicts.

The smaller mod shows as number "0" and the Main mod shows as number "14". If I click on the dependency icon for the main mod it correctly shows "loads before [the smaller mod]"

I also have the correct rule if I click on the conflicts icon, (green lightning).

 

If it is relevant I found this error in vortex diagnostics:

Mon, 25 Mar 2019 15:23:37 GMT - info: Vortex Version 0.17.8

,

,

Mon, 25 Mar 2019 15:23:45 GMT - info: read font C:\Program Files\Black Tree Gaming Ltd\Vortex\resources\app.asar\assets\fonts\icons.svg

Mon, 25 Mar 2019 15:23:45 GMT - error: Winapi failed to retrieve controlled folder access status errno=2, path=SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows Defender\Windows Defender Exploit Guard\Controlled Folder Access, syscall=RegGetValue

Mon, 25 Mar 2019 15:23:46 GMT - info: updated loot masterlist true

Mon, 25 Mar 2019 15:23:49 GMT - info: set channel

Mon, 25 Mar 2019 15:23:52 GMT - info: no update available

Mon, 25 Mar 2019 16:33:39 GMT - info: clean application end

Edited March 25, 2019 by Byg

[HadToRegister]

I've never paid attention to it to be honest, since I use Mod Rules to determine which mod loads before/after another.

But I see what you're saying because my load order is sorted by Install order, and I get this

________________________________________________________________

Mod Name - (Part 1) Engine Fixes 2.13 for SSE 1.5.53 - skse64 plugin

Installation time - 4 Months Ago

Install Order - 0

 

 

Mod Name - New Colors Patch BCA

Installation Time - 1 Month Ago

Install Order - 1

Mod Name - A quality world map
Installation time - 4 months ago

Install Order - 2

_______________________________________________________________

 

 

My Install order is a mix of 4 Months, 3 Months, 2 Months, and 1 Month

[Byg]

As one would expect.

I'm using the latest Vortex BTW, for skyrim VR. Vortex has updated a couple of times since I started modding.

My SKSE mod, despite being first to be installed is numbered "13"

 

I guess this isn't so important if vortex does not use those numbers, just very inconvenient for keeping a visual track of mod priority..

Edited March 25, 2019 by Byg

[AugustaCalidia]

@Byg

 

Just like HadToRegister, I've never really paid attention to install order. I've always concentrated on rules. I set mod conflict rules, and Vortex obeys.

 

 

I guess this isn't so important if vortex does not use those numbers, just very inconvenient for keeping a visual track of mod priority..

 

What if you sorted the "Install Order" column in ascending or descending order (whatever order floats your boat). Would that be of help to you? Since the only priorities that count have to do with mods in conflict, you could refine your sorting by also selecting "Conflict" in the "Dependencies" column.

 

Just curious. Why do you need to keep a visual track of mod priority?

[AugustaCalidia]

@Byg

 

 

EDIT: for further clarity, I have a mod that changes many textures and another mod that improves upon a few of those. So I installed the larger mod first then the smaller (if that matters) then I set dependencies/resolved conflicts.

The smaller mod shows as number "0" and the Main mod shows as number "14". If I click on the dependency icon for the main mod it correctly shows "loads before [the smaller mod]"

I also have the correct rule if I click on the conflicts icon, (green lightning).

 

Still curious. What mods are you talking about here?

[HadToRegister]

 

 

 

 

EDIT: for further clarity, I have a mod that changes many textures and another mod that improves upon a few of those. So I installed the larger mod first then the smaller (if that matters) then I set dependencies/resolved conflicts.

The smaller mod shows as number "0" and the Main mod shows as number "14". If I click on the dependency icon for the main mod it correctly shows "loads before [the smaller mod]"

I also have the correct rule if I click on the conflicts icon, (green lightning).

 

 

 

Doesn't matter which one you install first, because you can just tell the mod that you want to overwrite the other mod by making a LOAD AFTER rule for it.

Installing them in a certain order was what you HAD to do with NMM because NMM overwrite the files so if you installed them in the wrong order, you had to uninstall them both and do it again.

 

With Vortex you can just change the Hierarchy of the mods by using LOAD BEFORE, or LOAD AFTER, no more uninstalling and reinstalling, that why "Install Order" really doesn't matter in the Mod Tab

[Byg]

@Byg

 

Just like HadToRegister, I've never really paid attention to install order. I've always concentrated on rules. I set mod conflict rules, and Vortex obeys.

 

 

I guess this isn't so important if vortex does not use those numbers, just very inconvenient for keeping a visual track of mod priority..

 

What if you sorted the "Install Order" column in ascending or descending order (whatever order floats your boat). Would that be of help to you? Since the only priorities that count have to do with mods in conflict, you could refine your sorting by also selecting "Conflict" in the "Dependencies" column.

 

Just curious. Why do you need to keep a visual track of mod priority?

 

The install order numbers are literally all over the place so I was worried that if the install order numbers are what vortex was going by then my game would be messed up, regardless of ascending or descending order. It must be there for some reason surely, unless mine is in error.

 

Good idea regarding trying dependencies column along with whatever, but still no way to list the mods in the order of their priority. The dependency column does not put mods in dependency order, just eliminates everything else.

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT: for further clarity, I have a mod that changes many textures and another mod that improves upon a few of those. So I installed the larger mod first then the smaller (if that matters) then I set dependencies/resolved conflicts.

The smaller mod shows as number "0" and the Main mod shows as number "14". If I click on the dependency icon for the main mod it correctly shows "loads before [the smaller mod]"

I also have the correct rule if I click on the conflicts icon, (green lightning).

 

 

 

Doesn't matter which one you install first, because you can just tell the mod that you want to overwrite the other mod by making a LOAD AFTER rule for it.

Installing them in a certain order was what you HAD to do with NMM because NMM overwrite the files so if you installed them in the wrong order, you had to uninstall them both and do it again.

 

With Vortex you can just change the Hierarchy of the mods by using LOAD BEFORE, or LOAD AFTER, no more uninstalling and reinstalling, that why "Install Order" really doesn't matter in the Mod Tab

 

I have done the hierarchys, but would now like to see them via a column.

Well I'm still non the wiser as to the point of install order as it bears no relation to anything, even to actual install order or dependency related install order.

It's helpful to see the actual order the of priority the mods have so you can tell at a glance if mods you intended to overwrite parts of others have been set correctly

[Byg]

@Byg

 

 

EDIT: for further clarity, I have a mod that changes many textures and another mod that improves upon a few of those. So I installed the larger mod first then the smaller (if that matters) then I set dependencies/resolved conflicts.

The smaller mod shows as number "0" and the Main mod shows as number "14". If I click on the dependency icon for the main mod it correctly shows "loads before [the smaller mod]"

I also have the correct rule if I click on the conflicts icon, (green lightning).

 

Still curious. What mods are you talking about here?

So graphics wise I have (for skyrim VR) SMIM, Eyesore, forgotten & miscellaneous mods, noble skyrim, noble skyrim smim patch, Terrain LOD redone. Some of which must necessarily go after others. As I may install many more it would be nice to check for any obvious mistakes by having them ordered in the order they overwrite each other.

 

The install order numbers Vortex has assigned to those mods are 14, 2, 4, 10, 0, 11, and 17 respectively. (sound mods, skse, skyui, ussep are the other numbers I have not listed).

 

I'm following this list so far but will probably not install everything there. They are listed in order of installation, so I'm trying to follow that order and setting dependencies as I go.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1t_mXqCg-kFCKgFnJuFRXnat70ZDYoOPcIEVFS1cJcrs/edit#

 

PS. Anyone know what this error means in Vortex diagnostics?

Tue, 26 Mar 2019 13:37:44 GMT - error: Winapi failed to retrieve controlled folder access status errno=2, path=SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows Defender\Windows Defender Exploit Guard\Controlled Folder Access, syscall=RegGetValue

(Ignore this error question - I just read elsewhere that it does not matter).

Edited March 26, 2019 by Byg

[AugustaCalidia]

@Byg

 

Thank you for the additional information and for satisfying my curiosity.

 

And thank you for your original post. It got me to thinking seriously about "install order" and what it means. Here are my tentative conclusions.

 

1. Install order is the order in which the game actually loads its assets - meshes, textures, scripts, etc. The game loads all these assets before loading plugins, which tell the game what to do with these assets.

 

2. With Vortex, unlike many mod managers, the temporal order in which the assets are loaded does not determine which assets overwrite other assets. Vortex places hardlinks in the game data folder to accomplish this using conflict rules that trump temporal sequence. There is no need to overwrite by removing one set of assets from the game data folder and replacing it with another.

 

3. If I am right about all this, then "Install Order" is just that - the sequence in which the game assets are actually loaded. It says nothing about asset priority.

 

4. The sequence in which game assets are loaded is determined by . . . . I haven't the slightest idea.

 

Anybody reading this, please tell me if I've got it all wrong. I have an open mind about this. Please Include your reasons, and please explain what you understand "install order" to mean.

Edited March 26, 2019 by Augusta Calidia

[HadToRegister]

I just click on the Install Order column, in order to sort everything like

 

0

1

2

3

4

 

to satisfy any deeply underlying Obsessive Compulsion I may or may not have.