[WIP] Project Extend And Change Everything (PEACE)

[antistar]

Oof, okay; I've finished setting up all the main armour sets (the ones with separate pieces for arms, legs, etc) to have Strength requirements. It was very tedious. Hopefully it will feel like a natural part of the game to players, though. While I was working on it I also wrote a rough tutorial on how to add support for this STR REQ system to other armour.

 

Next I'll have a look at maybe giving certain full outfits a Strength requirement too; things like the Cage Armour, like I was saying earlier. I'll possibly also give any outfits I do this to some extra mod options, as well. E.g. giving the Cage Armour some of the same mods that the Raider Armour gets - just altered to suit a full outfit.

Yeah DTF is actually super good. And the best bit is it dynamically assigns DT values to EVERY SINGLE ARMOR PIECE. Even modded ones. YOu can use the default setting which kinda just spitballs DT values on gear or you can create your own. The game implements the values and the threshold system within the engine so it blends right in. No muss no fuss. And the best bit is you can just remove the mod and it doesn't get baked into your save file. Honestly if something like THAT is possible, a durability system doesn't sound so far fetched.. Just give the non-power armor pieces across the game a flat Heath value and set it so that a portion of the damage you take is absorbed into armor Health instead of YOUR health. Bada bing bada boom, all normal armor pieces function like power armor pieces and need to be repaired every so often (and can be found in varying condition in the wild). Maybe you could go all the way and make the armor look broken if you felt like it, but why not make a script that unequips the pieces and places them into your inventory with a new name or tag that is a "broken" variant of the piece that you have to craft at a bench to remove? Horizon sortof already does this. Minus the actual item breaking while it's equipped.

Heck, I think 76 just unequips the things that are broken. Not even a broken item mesh swap or anything. It just unequips until you repair the item in question. Seems feasible to implement something like that into 4.

Does DTF assign DT values via (say) a script in FO4Edit that generates a patch plugin based on all the plugins in your load order, or does it do it dynamically while the game is running? I've been a bit unclear on that and haven't had time to look into it closely. In any case it does sound pretty great.

Hi antistar,

Just a quick post here. I stumbled upon this Power armor add-on WIP by Nutulator, on Artstation.

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/1n3ZRZ

Looks kinda cool. It has a Vietnam era feel to it.

Damn, that is some beautiful work. I'm always on board for some Vietnam War era equipment aesthetics in FO4, too. I may have mentioned this a while ago in the WARS WIP thread, but something I've vaguely wanted to do for a while (in the admittedly unlikely event that I ever get time for it) is try making a full armour set based on the M69 flak jacket. So arms and legs on top of the jacket itself.

[geala]

The damage threshold sounds tempting, at least it is not as bad as the normal FO4 although it too does not simulate armor correctly at all. A better system would be this: you needed the armor stats applied at the place of hit, then it may be 0 (for example a stab into the guts beneath your rifle bullet proof hardplates, so no protection) or 1, in the latter case a penetration math were in order, based on armor and bullet/weapon kind. If a penetration occured the rest of the damage had to be subtracted from hp; this should be calculated with two multipliers, one for normal damage (muscles, normal organs) and a crit damage (CNS, important vessels, heart), based on the surface of the delicate structures in the area in percent. Ok, I'm daydreaming. :pinch:

 

Back to reality. I'm about to start a new game with a "primitive world" and an even harsher item regime than I'm used too (most guns except pipe gone, more melee, very few ammo from loot and vendors etc.) and I always have a certain problem with power armor. I use Better Power Armor mod which makes PA extremely strong against even the strongest guns. The strongest gun I have in game is the .50 BMG handmade anti-materiel rifle, dealing 500 damage (I'm using BLD mod which sets health to a reasonable limit, a human or the player has 150 to 200 health, a supermutant 350, a deathclaw 2000 or so, so 500 damage a shot is ... high). But you'd need lots of hits to destroy power armor parts before you could even wound the wearer; you're dead long before. A damage threshold could solve this and make armor piercing high power calibers worthwhile.

 

The DTF sounds a bit intimidating. Is it up to date for the newest FO4 version? How much work is it to apply it to all armor? Does it work with melee damage the same as with projectile damage?

 

 

To bleeding: bleeding is important for "immersion" as in reality it is the main reason for deaths from woundings. In the movies a person stabbed in the belly falls over and dies, how convenient for the hero. In reality he/she maybe dies three days later by an infection. Or dies in 5 or 10 minutes if an artery is hit. Or, more probable, does not die at all because the bleeding is not that severe. The game should have several bleeding types, low and strong or low, medium and strong. The damage simply is a DoT and as such not unknown in games. It's the most reasonable DoT ever used in games btw.

 

Existing bleeding systems (like in BLD) are not perfect but ok-ish to a certain degree, they are heavily arcade (you can stop all bleedings by a simple bandage) but add presure to the player in fights, and also introduce another item you have to care for and make or buy. It changes the way you look at fights, you really feel bad and vulnerable if you are low on bandages and still have a certain distance to move to the next settlement. :cool:

 

BTW is there an ETA for PEACE?

Edited August 6, 2019 by geala

[Nihilisaurus]

The DTF sounds a bit intimidating. Is it up to date for the newest FO4 version?

 

Yes, updated for 1.10.138 as of early July.

How much work is it to apply it to all armor?

 

Done automatically at runtime, you can specify an equation in a config file for converting the values from FO4's default resistances to a threshold. They also provide ways to manually add DT to items ingame like you can DR, and there's the option to have just DT or DT plus the existing resistance system.

Does it work with melee damage the same as with projectile damage?

Yes.

Edited August 6, 2019 by Lt Albrecht

[geala]

I considered it a bit, back and forth and I think damage threshold does make sense more for complete armor. There are so many gaps in bullet proof armory usually (except you make yourself custom armor like the robbers in the North Hollywood shootout, which did them no good in the end nevertheless, and could not be worn on a daily basis) that a threshold is too strong or, if set low (as it had to be for limb armor, leather armor etc.), not such a difference from the DR system.

 

In my case added to this is the fact that I removed most of limb armor. Therefore I will try to give DT only to the power armors which offer a complete cover over human flesh. I hope it is possible to change the optional plugin to the DTS framework accordingly with FO4Edit?

[antistar]

To bleeding: bleeding is important for "immersion" as in reality it is the main reason for deaths from woundings. In the movies a person stabbed in the belly falls over and dies, how convenient for the hero. In reality he/she maybe dies three days later by an infection. Or dies in 5 or 10 minutes if an artery is hit. Or, more probable, does not die at all because the bleeding is not that severe. The game should have several bleeding types, low and strong or low, medium and strong. The damage simply is a DoT and as such not unknown in games. It's the most reasonable DoT ever used in games btw.

 

Existing bleeding systems (like in BLD) are not perfect but ok-ish to a certain degree, they are heavily arcade (you can stop all bleedings by a simple bandage) but add presure to the player in fights, and also introduce another item you have to care for and make or buy. It changes the way you look at fights, you really feel bad and vulnerable if you are low on bandages and still have a certain distance to move to the next settlement. :cool:

 

BTW is there an ETA for PEACE?

AmmoTweaks 2.0 has an interesting-sounding critical hit effects system that may work well as a way to inflict bleeding conditions, so hey; maybe WARS will end up with bleeding/bandages/etc.

 

As far as an ETA goes... please see the FAQ in the second post.

 

 

Done automatically at runtime, you can specify an equation in a config file for converting the values from FO4's default resistances to a threshold. They also provide ways to manually add DT to items ingame like you can DR, and there's the option to have just DT or DT plus the existing resistance system.

Oh right, the config file with a customisable equation in it; thanks. I remember seeing that now.

[Macnspam]

 

To bleeding: bleeding is important for "immersion" as in reality it is the main reason for deaths from woundings. In the movies a person stabbed in the belly falls over and dies, how convenient for the hero. In reality he/she maybe dies three days later by an infection. Or dies in 5 or 10 minutes if an artery is hit. Or, more probable, does not die at all because the bleeding is not that severe. The game should have several bleeding types, low and strong or low, medium and strong. The damage simply is a DoT and as such not unknown in games. It's the most reasonable DoT ever used in games btw.

 

Existing bleeding systems (like in BLD) are not perfect but ok-ish to a certain degree, they are heavily arcade (you can stop all bleedings by a simple bandage) but add presure to the player in fights, and also introduce another item you have to care for and make or buy. It changes the way you look at fights, you really feel bad and vulnerable if you are low on bandages and still have a certain distance to move to the next settlement. :cool:

 

BTW is there an ETA for PEACE?

AmmoTweaks 2.0 has an interesting-sounding critical hit effects system that may work well as a way to inflict bleeding conditions, so hey; maybe WARS will end up with bleeding/bandages/etc.

 

As far as an ETA goes... please see the FAQ in the second post.

 

 

Done automatically at runtime, you can specify an equation in a config file for converting the values from FO4's default resistances to a threshold. They also provide ways to manually add DT to items ingame like you can DR, and there's the option to have just DT or DT plus the existing resistance system.

Oh right, the config file with a customisable equation in it; thanks. I remember seeing that now.

 

 

Theoretically if one were to assign Durability and Condition values to items in the same manner it would allow for a workable armor durability system without too much of a headache. Especially if you used the armor material as a basis for how much to assign to each. You could just do a blanket injection of those values and it wouldn't require editing individual records. Plus no conflicts.

[antistar]

By way of an update:

 

I finished the Strength requirement stuff the other day. This is the updated list of armour with STR requirements:

 

 

- List of armour sets with Strength requirements:
--- Leather (Light: 1, Medium: 2, Heavy: 3)
--- Raider (Light: 2, Medium: 3, Heavy: 4)
--- Combat (Light: 3, Medium: 4, Heavy: 5)
--- Metal (Light: 4, Medium: 5, Heavy: 6)
--- Trapper (Standard: 5, Heavy: 6)
--- Nuka-World Raider (Standard: 6, Heavy: 7)
--- Synth (Light: 6, Medium: 7, Heavy: 8)
--- Marine (Standard: 8, Heavy: 9)
--- Robot (Light: 8, Medium: 9, Heavy: 10)

- List of outfits with Strength requirements:
--- Cage Armor: 5
--- Diver Suit: 6
--- Coastal Armor: 4
--- Gage's Armor: 6
--- Mechanist's Armor: 4
--- Minutemen General's Uniform: 4
--- Railroad Armored Coat (Mk I: 4, Mk II & Mk III: 5, Mk IV & Mk V: 6)
--- Spike Armor: 4

 

 

 

I've been working on another part of the encumbrance overhaul; giving Strength-based Carry Weight bonuses to existing armour and clothing in the same way as the backpacks I added. It's looking like there will be three main "slots" that can boost CW:

 

- Backpacks.

- Clothing with pockets and pouches.

- The "Pocketed"/"Deep Pocketed" mods on armour.

 

So a typical example might be to wear Army Fatigues (lots of pockets), Combat Armor over the top that has been modified to have Deep Pockets, and finally a Hiking Rucksack. That should give you the maximum CW possible from clothing/armour, actually - depending on your STR of course.

 

I think I've got the general structure for this worked out now; all the omods, enchantments, crafting recipes, etc. Now I need to go through all the clothing and armour and apply it. The way I've set it up should make this pretty quick, overall. (Though I'll likely also make any other stat tweaks to armour/clothing while I'm doing this.)

 

Some clothing will be modifiable to have more pockets than it started with (but probably not less), and some won't. Some examples:

 

- Vault Suit: No pockets and no ability to add them, since it's pretty skin-tight.

 

- Baseball Uniform: No pockets by default but can be modified to have them.

 

- Army Fatigues: Can't be modified since it starts with lots of pockets already.

[geala]

I read that you will relate encumbrance modifiers to the bags which will lower Agility in some cases. I like this. I tried the mod Tuckered Out which has a elaborated scripted system of applying weariness, with slower running speed and so, which takes into account the actual carryweight, but I did not find a good setting for me, and I generally don't like systems which apply only to the player. A leaner approach might be better.

 

How will the - Agi be applied? I really hope not with a script but on the items, because I would like to be able to change it to my pleasure easily (some -Agi numbers seem a bit too nice towards the player for me, but that's a matter of taste).

Edited August 15, 2019 by geala

[antistar]

I saw Tuckered Out go up; it sounds interesting, but pretty heavy-going. I've got it tracked to maybe give it a go in a future playthrough sometime. (I.e. not my next playthrough.)

 

There are no scripts in any part of the encumbrance overhaul in PEACE so far. The AGI penalties on backpacks are applied via enchantments that are added via omods attached to the backpacks - so they're easy to change, yes.

 

There's also the STR requirement on armour - speaking of encumbrance penalties. They're handled in much the same way, and I've got them set as:

 

- Head: Reduces Perception by 2.
- Arms: Each reduce melee damage by 15% and reload speed by 15%.
- Legs: Each reduce movement speed by 15%.
- Torso: Reduces Action Point regeneration rate by 3 per second.

 

(The same as the "cumbersome" penalties associated with the medical braces.)

[antistar]

As an update:

 

I finished adding pockets to all the armour and clothing; wow that was tedious. Each piece of clothing was pretty quick on its own, but there's a lot of it in FO4 - and I was making other stat tweaks at the same time, like I said.

 

I just finished changing/replacing Legendary armour effects as required. Really had to rack my brain for some of them. Like I've said before, it can be hard to come up with these things if you don't resort to magic. ;) Anyway, here's the relevant part quoted from the draft readme:

 

 

Changed effects:

- Acrobat's: -50% Fall Damage. -> -25% Fall Damage.
- Bolstering: Increasing bonus DR & ER with lower health. -> +10 DR, +10 ER, +10 RR.
- Cunning: +1 AGI, +1 PER. -> +1 AGI, +5% Stealth while moving.
- Rad Powered: +1 STR per 133 Rads. -> +3 AP Regen per 200 Rads.
- Sharp: +1 CHA, +1 INT. -> +1 CHA, +5% Melee Damage Reflection.
- Unyielding: +3 to all SPECIAL stats (but END) when below 25% HP. -> +20 DR, +20 ER, +20 RR.


Replaced effects:

- Assassin's: -15% Damage from humans. -> EnduroMesh: +1 END.
- Champion / Fortifying: +1 END, +1 STR. -> CardioMesh: +0.1%/s HP Regen.
- Cryogenic: 10% chance to freeze melee attackers. -> Lightweight: -20% Weight.
- Exterminator's: -15% Damage from mirelurks/bugs. -> Hidden Pocket: +2.5 Carry Weight, plus 0.25 CW per point of Strength.
- Ghoul Slayer's: -15% Damage from ghouls. -> EnduroMesh+: +2 END.
- Hunter's: -15% Damage from animals. -> Elegant: +1 AGI, +1 CHA.
- Incendiary: 30% chance to ignite melee attackers. -> Tailored: +2 AGI.
- Martyr's: Slows time briefly in combat when at low health. -> Breathable: +10 AP.
- Mutant Slayer's: -15% Damage from super mutants. -> Hydrodynamic: +15% Swim Speed.
- Troubleshooter's: -15% Damage from robots. -> Rigid: +30DR, -1 AGI.


Named armour with changed effects:

- Acadia's Shield: +1 to AGI, INT, and END -> +1 AGI, +10 DR, +10 ER, +10 RR.
- Freefall Legs: -50% Fall Damage per Freefall item. -> -35% Fall Damage per Freefall item.
- Grognak costume/Wildman Rags: Increased Strength and melee damage. -> +15% Movement Speed.
- Inquisitor's Cowl: INT bonus per 100 Rads -> +5% XP earned per 200 Rads.
- Mechanist's Armor: -15% Damage from robots -> EnduroMesh+: +2 END.

 

 

 

What else... Oh, I decided to add medical braces as modification options for existing armour, too - on top of the regular dedicated medical braces I've got in there. They've got high perk requirements (rank 4 in both Armorer and Medic), and are on the Lining slot, so they're competing with the Pocketed mods and whatnot. Besides that, they make the armour piece work the same as the regular medical braces: slow healing of that body part, but cumbersome to wear.

 

Another smallish thing: I made the Nuka-Girl Rocketsuit work as under-armour. Unsurprisingly there's some clipping, but it's not too bad. More importantly though, I split the helmet and pack off into a new "helmet + pack" item. This helmet gets the underwater-breathing effect that the outfit had and can be worn with other clothing/armour - but not backpacks, since it incorporates those tanks on the back.

 

Fortunately the rocketsuit outfit was set up in such a way that I could just separate the pieces in Nifskope. I wouldn't have bothered, otherwise.