Advice to Vortex Programming Team

[imprezza86]

With respect, I have spent some time reading responses to various issues on the Vortex forum as well as attempting to use the Vortex application for Skyrim SE. And what I have seen isn't that great when it comes to support. Hear me out before you jump all over me. I'm not some 16 year old kid or 20 year old CS major. I'm 51 yrs old, been working on computers since my dad (who work at IBM) taught me to code as kid by only using paper and a pencil. My dad went over every line of code and busted me when my code wouldn't work. That's right before I touched a single computer I had to learn to code by only paper and pencil. There was no 32 gigs of ram, more like 4k. My first computer was a IBM 5150 with 64k and one floppy drive. I have over 30 years in IT, working for international companies like IBM (Got lucky and followed dad) and GTE. Before I had to retire due to chronic pain and 3 failed back surgeries. I've done network administration, field support, application distribution, application development and security work. I've written code for internet browsers that was well before multi-tabs, ad blockers and other fuctions. My code was used by call centers to assist in the early days of java. I ran networks using Netware, Microsoft, and Linux basic distributions. I like to think I know a thing or two about a thing or two.

 

I gave up Vortex because I wasn't impressed with how it works. Frankly, NMM has a better and much simpler interface. When you want to develop an application, any application, you should have a few goals.

1. Make it fulfill all your goals on a proper time line, using Alpha, Beta, Gold.

2. Make sure you have a proper road map (including potential future needs) to accomplish your goals, aka project management.

3. Make it so that the average person can use it with very little documentation. Can you say Internet browsers?

4. Be open to suggestions and changes to make things easier on the user, not you.

 

With Vortex, #1 and #2 seem to be going ok. While #3 and #4, complete failures. In fact, so far from what I have seen from use issues, it sounds more like the Vortex team are like the folks that create Linux bases distributions. And we all know how much Linux base desktops have taken over Windows or MAC, as in not at all. Over the years since 1993, the lack of good support for Linux has been subpar at best.

 

If you ever hope to over take NMM or other mod mangers then you are going to have to make the interface simpler and easier to use. Again like a basic internet browser. Change the wording in Vortex to make things understandable for the average person. No matter how old it gets, don't blow people off and say go watch a video. Create a web page and do step by step instructions without a video. I hate starting and stopping a video just to read something. A webpage is so much easier, especially when I can run the browser page along side vortex on a split screen or two screens and bounce between the two. No matter how nasty anyone comes across, try to turn them into a satisfied user. While working at IBM, I had a customer that treated me like crap because her computer wouldn't turn on. She was pissed off and made threats about my job, etc. I discovered that the cleaning crew had somehow unplugged her PC. Instead of being angry and I seriously could have because of the language she used, instead I calmed her down and didn't say anything about her behavior. I won her over by simply explaining the accident and suggested that if it happens again maybe have a word with the cleaning crew about where to vacuum the floors.

 

Regardless if you take an old man's advice or not, I will continue to use NMM and Loot until Vortex is a match in terms of usability and support. Hate me, talk down to me, whatever. It hasn't been the first time and won't be the last. I've out lived a lot of applications with good intentions, both mine own and others. Most have failed but a few have succeed when most have said otherwise. Good customer support is the key.

 

Good luck Vortex Team and show me and others why your are truly worth the next generation of NMM. I'd be happy to provide advice but you'd have convince me to try Vortex again after so many issues. I'm still willing to try it again but I really don't want to go through the whole process to have Skyrim SE fail to run properly again.

 

Regards

[HadToRegister]

Since NMM and Vortex are both OPEN SOURCE, you could help out and really make BOTH mod managers completely awesome with your coding skills.

Hopefully you'll clean up both mod managers and get them firing on all burners with your experience, the person to get in touch with is Tannin42
I'm looking forward to it.

[Guest deleted34304850]

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[Rattledagger]

Where is already some written documentation available on help-tab (or something similar) in Vortex and the same information is available through your web-browser of choice. You can even help improving this documentation yourself, since it works like a wiki.

[rmm200]

As another old programmer who has worked with usability teams for years on my products and others - the Vortex UI is really good.

Head and shoulders above any other mod manager.

 

Curriculum vitae: IBM, Amdahl, Fujitsu, Veritas, and most recently Symantec.

[AugustaCalidia]

@rmm200

 

Impressive CV. Now I know why you always have the right answers.

[rmm200]

@rmm200

 

Impressive CV. Now I know why you always have the right answers.

 

Thanks! Would not have mentioned it, but sometimes blanket statements require a qualified response.

I am certainly at least as impressed by the quality of your responses. Not to mention - Latin!

[AugustaCalidia]

@rmm200

 

 

I am certainly at least as impressed by the quality of your responses. Not to mention - Latin!

 

Well, in university I majored in philosophy (with a concentration on mediaeval thinkers - Aquinas, Occam, etc.) and minored in classical Greek. I had already learned Latin in high school.

 

I knew I would have a use for that education someday, and now I have found it. The Vortex forums! :smile:

 

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.

[TheLionHearted27]

@imprezza86 I would have to agree with your entire post. The admins definitely seem irritated in some responses, which I get, I've been there. One person seems to be the biggest issue though, and thats 1ae0bfb8. I mean I literally read tons of pages of his responses. I have worked in customer service for years on end, had he actually been working for a corporate company he would have been fired already from the amount of customer complaints received. Telling a customer that they are the problem is completely unacceptable, even if it's true. I implore the actual admins do calm him down. On a professional level, you can't talk down to the customer. I've been completely cursed out, and would have lost my job if I responded back the same way. Customer Service is extremely important and I would score the admins with a 50%. Sorry but most people are not going to comb through hundreds of posts hoping that the answer to their question is in there somewhere. I would watch a video way before I search through tons of forum post. Not everyone has the patience, time, and diligence to do that. Getting irritated, then basically calling them lazy and dumb is not a smart thing to do.

 

Now for some constructive criticism. "Change the wording in Vortex to make things understandable for the average person." This I completely agree with. I have trained hundreds of employees and soldiers in my lifetime, i'm currently a trainer for Amazon. You need to break it down, as I call it "Barney Style". Meaning if a 8 year old can't understand what you just explained, its of no use. Here is an example: Clicking on the little italicized (i) will produce a drop down box with an explanation. Great feature, poorly implemented. So for my example i'll use mod staging folder. Here's what it reads in its entirety: Vortex uses defaults to store mods you download and install. If you don't like these faults or can't use them (i.e. because you need to use the deployment method using hard link and the game is on a different drive) then use these settings to change the directories. Existing files will be moved to the new location automatically once you confirm the new paths. Please make sure you have write permissions to the new directory. Do NOT use your Vortex Application directory! You can use "variables" to save yourself some typing: - {GAME} is replaced with the id of the game - {USERDATA} is replaced with a platform dependent data directory that is guaranteed to have write access. Example: If you change the path to "d:\vortex_mods\{GAME}" and your active game is Skyrim then all your extracted mods will be in "d:\vortex_mods\skyrim"

 

So yeah I understand all that, but I had to read it over about twenty times before I completely comprehended it. Also some of it is condescending in tone. Here is a revision: Vortex uses defaults to store mods you download and install. Use these settings to change the directory if you prefer not to use them or are not able to. Once you confirm the new path, all existing files will be moved to that location. Note: Using your Vortex Application directory will not work. Everything beyond that is programming jargon, I don't believe that there are too many 8 year olds that understand the concept of "variables". I'm not saying there are none, just that they are not the majority. The write permissions piece is useless to those who have no clue what those are and how to make that possible. The question that would follow, will still be the same whether you put that in there or not.

 

"No matter how old it gets, don't blow people off and say go watch a video." Sometimes this is the best way for people to learn. Not everyone can learn just by reading alone. Some need to actually do it, others learn by listening. Obviously though yea blowing them off and directing them to a video, not always the best solution.

 

"Create a web page and do step by step instructions without a video." If you click on knowledge base it has exactly that.

 

"If you ever hope to over take NMM or other mod managers then you are going to have to make the interface simpler and easier to use." This is the one thing i'll disagree with. Personally I love the new user interface, it's just going to take some time to get used to navigating it. I was lost in the sauce using NMM when I first started modding. I think with time, Vortex will continue to be improved and eventually edge out NMM.

 

In conclusion my whole point is customer service needs work. If your not willing to deal with angry rants and useless posts I don't know what to tell you. Do you really want to turn away customers? Does that make smart business sense? Especially paying customers! Talk to every customer like you would a kind old lady, or your mother. Obviously there are things that need to be improved, but NMM wasn't perfect either, it took time.

[Guest deleted34304850]

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